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heys guys, im planing on getting a 396 for my el camino. probably around summer. my goals are for the engine are to pump out 450-500 horse power and as much torque i can get, how hard would it be to push a 396 to my power limits? and about how much would it cost? say if i start with a block and build up? also i want to run average to low comp, so i can run this engine on pump gas, for a street driven engine, what else would i have to run to get those numbers?
it is all ways better to use cid to get tq .it will take alot to get500 hp out of a 396 with pump gas but 420 hp would be more realist .and you would not cost so much but at this point it still would need some money spent in the rigth place. first would be a small roller cam and head work you need to find a set of heads that will give you the most cr because the pistons are not cheap for the 396 so a set of small dome 325 hp pistons and close chamber heads would help on this.I have bulit some 396-402 a good small big block and can be made to run but it would be easer to build a 496 cast crank and hiper pistons for about the same money and make more hp and tq on pump
so your saying to go with a 496 crank and hyperetic pistons in the 396? will that get me 450 hp? that more realistic, and a good solid number.
how where the 396 made? are they like a 350 that got bored? or how were they made? also, how come a 383 stoker can make very close to 500, i seen one on ryans combos, vut how hard would it be to get a 396 to throw out 450 hp? what if i used a forged kit? would that work?
No he's not saying to use a 496 crank in a 396 block... He's saying to build the 496. Block and all. I'm not even sure u can put a 496 crankshaft in a 396 block...
No a 396 is not a bored out 350. The 396 is a big block. Not a small block.
A 383 stroker can make close to 500 hp because of the parts available for small blocks today. The old saying " there's no replacement for displacement" really, in my opinion, doesn't work anymore. Thats JMO though and i know there are many that would disagree. However, with the new technology and all of the things that you can do now with a small block. They make big numbers and can be made to have fairly large inches. Also, the bigger you start, the bigger you can go. If u start with a 454 you can make much larger numbers than you could with a 350 because you already have 100 cui advantage.
Forged is always better if u have the money to throw at it. But if you have the money for a forged kit for a BBC more power to ya.
Another thing to think about, if your planning on racing this engine, you might think about how much a bbc weighs over a sbc. some say its not worth it, others say it is. Then there's the group that can afford a full aluminum operation :)
the383 may be cheaper to build at a point MONEY the 396 can make 500 hp but not cheap and as for the 383 no way in hell will it make the TQ of the 496 dollar for dollar the big block is the best deal if you know what you are doing. and the 396 is a very good engine but time has past it by. parts for this like the pistons small bore engine are not cheap BUT if you think this old rat has no teeth you would be WRONG i had more than one396-402 and i whip many 427 350 400 454and some fords and more. you just need to think how much money you want to spend and get real on the leve of hp you want you will have a very hard time getting close to the leve of hp you want for less than 3500 to4000i have had big block for over 26 years have had 396 to 572 and 630+ CID big blocks and i still like the old 396 -402 they can run. i have made them run.
yes ill have the money to push a 396 that far, i know a 396 have balls , and thats why i want to throw one in my ss. and for the materr i want to do a rest job on the car. i know 350 can be buit to be monsters, so i know 396 have alot of potential. if thats what its gonna take to get a 396 throwing out those numbers im more than willing to put out the money for it. what would be the best combos to make such power? i havent seen alot of dynoed comboes for 396's, so what would be to the best way to start ?
hey pat what did you use in you 396's? and what comboes work for you and what were there numbers?
use a 454 crank good oval heads rpm air gap intake and a crane roller cam with 610 - 632 lift and you will be on your way thats what i did
i did not do much 1965 396 this was over 20 years ago and dyno were not easy to find or deck top dynos. yes you can put the 4.00 crank in one like i said before but you will need to get custom pistons or work over a set of 396 trw forged pistons use a454 fly wheel and damper this will be 427 or close to it. i do not know bore size you have right now . a roller cam like i said will help the hp and the heads and if you go with a big cam you will have to have cr and like i said this may be tuff when small dome low cr pistons are over $400 so just with the roller cam roller rockers and pistons this dos not give you much for block crank intake all machine work. i see you think that it like a 350?? it is not IN NO WAY shape or form it is a big block chevy rods are longer heads are big evey things are bigger that is why it called a big block
396 block/454 crank
std. bore 422 c.i. / piston dia. 4.094", 1.643" compression height
0.030" over 428 c.i. / piston dia. 4.124", 1.643" c.h.
0.060" over 434 c.i. / piston dia. 4.154", 1.643 c.h.
Whose pistons did you use?Quote:
Originally posted by Superjim427
use a 454 crank good oval heads rpm air gap intake and a crane roller cam with 610 - 632 lift and you will be on your way thats what i did
yes that is what i like to know to techinspector i have wanted to bulid one like this i have not had the 396 pistons in my hand but i do think there is there is more than enough meat on the 396 piston to do this. i just got a set of speed pro in the shop for a 402 and will get in to it. i will have a answer if any one want to know by the week end. still in shock on my price on the piston s my cost over $400 :CRY:Quote:
Originally posted by techinspector1
Whose pistons did you use?
454 crank comp height 1.645 396 -402-427 1.765 so if it is in the hole 100 or bit more but the crank counterweigths on the 454 crank may need a bit of work .i thing it can happen with the 396 shelf pistons cut just the flat of the piston and the dome will go up more so more cr but the valve notch will have to be fly cut in more or the big cam
396 pistons need to be 0.115" to 0.117" shorter on the comp. height, all other things being equal. Of course you'd have a little room in there to play with the deck height.
yes that is my thinking on this. this would be the only big block i have not stroke i think i must be working backwards:HMMM: then i can say i got it covered to 4.750 stroke :whacked:Quote:
Originally posted by techinspector1
396 pistons need to be 0.115" to 0.117" shorter on the comp. height, all other things being equal. Of course you'd have a little room in there to play with the deck height.
modified dome from speed pro
hey super jim , 454 crank? in a 396? im lost here what else did you use? like carb and other parts? i dont really look intoi the stroke on the cranks , know what i mean? like i will undertsand it more in more general terms, any way, whats in your 396? how strong is it?
10-5 compression merlin oval heads 750 speed demon rpm air gap intake 1 1 3-4 headers crane roller cam 610 632 lift
428 ci
416 hp 500o rpm 467 torque 4000 rpm
over 400 lbs of torque from 2000 to 5000 rpm
that rwhp it runs mid 11s in a 3500 pound chevelle with driver
so guys its sounds like it would be a better bet and more power if i bored out a 396, figuring that they are harder to find and so are the parts, i was reading a tech article in chevi hi performance, it was pretty cool. i think thats the way i will go, sounds like a better bet, also hey guys, how is the throtle response on these engines? cuz i was looking for something not to touchy, like i dont want a engine that will haull ass if i barely touch the pedal, you guys get my drift? how do these engines respond? or does it depend on your set up?
some of the old 396 you can bore out to 4.250 bore but not many .i had one back in the day this you be a 427 and then with a 454 crank it would be a 454 ?? but why? get a454 block and put 4 1/4 crank in it then you have a 489 0.30 over or 496 0.60 over they make a lot of TQ. my old 396 did not have much a268 comp cam good valve job and some head work bowl and a single plane holley with a thremoQ carb i would dump the clutch at 6500 it did run very good for not alot this was in my gto in 1980
i found a eagle competition rotating assembly on summit, forged kit, would this be a good kit to use? how far could i push it with this set up?
for what engine i can,t say much good about eagle but do what you want
what? i cant understand what your trying to say, the kit is for the 396, and can i use this kit to get the numbers i want?
what numbers ??and the eagle cranks are not that hot . but like i said do want you want. i have seen them and talk to my crank grinder and they are way off. but i build engines and check every thing. and there stuff dos not hold to my standards. but like i said do what you want. any one can make a kit for 396 i can build a kit you. just need to buy the parts that fitQuote:
Originally posted by mad hooker
what? i cant understand what your trying to say, the kit is for the 396, and can i use this kit to get the numbers i want?
okay but i want an enigne that will haull ass, like i said, im looking for a combo that will get me around 450 hp and a ton of torque, through the 396's you have biuld what combos work for you? thats what i want, what have you used, what parts? tell me what you have done to your engines to get these numbers.
real simple one stock gm crank one set of stock rods with arp bolts. one set of pistons what heads do you have ? small roller cam what do you want soild or hyd you have said you want this to run on pump gas right ???tell what heads you have and if you want a soild roller hyd and we can go onQuote:
Originally posted by mad hooker
okay but i want an enigne that will haull ass, like i said, im looking for a combo that will get me around 450 hp and a ton of torque, through the 396's you have biuld what combos work for you? thats what i want, what have you used, what parts? tell me what you have done to your engines to get these numbers.
i dont have a block yet, i want low compression, what you recomend for a cam, hyd, or roller? and what kind of heads would you use? and what carb, i want a holley, what else do you use?
you can not have every thing. it will be hard. like i told you the cam could be a hyd roller or a soild rolller i think a small hyd roller . but i want you to think for one minute . you want the same that a ZZ502-502 makes with your 396? you do not have the cr and no cid ? to do what you want .you will need some cid like i said. and a good set of heads there are many sets of gm heads ? and like i told you cant get many pistons for this so? if i tell you use 781 heads and run 10-1 were are you going to get the pistons? they would have to be custom at $900 or the 500 trw may work and the roller cam the piston will have to be fly cut intake air gap or team g carb 750 and good set of headers and exQuote:
Originally posted by mad hooker
i dont have a block yet, i want low compression, what you recomend for a cam, hyd, or roller? and what kind of heads would you use? and what carb, i want a holley, what else do you use?
Hey Mad Hooker, why don't you check out Scoggin-Dickey Chevrolet??? {sdpc2000.com}.... They have crate motors that are right where you want to be HP & TQ wise. Such as a 450 HP 502 that puts out 450 HP & 550 FT LBS. {8:75 to 1 compression}. Price; $5788 & change. This is everything except the carb, ignition, & exhaust. If money is tight then purchace the short block & then get the rest later. Or if money is even tighter yet purchace the bare block, then the crank, pistons, rods, heads, etc. later on..... They also have a 454 that puts out 440 HP & 500 FT LBS. The 454 block is $600 bucks cheaper to start. This is what I might have to do for my project. These are PROVEN combo's. You'll know what HP & TQ to expect going into the deal & it'll probably be cheaper also. Brand NEW, made in the USA parts ;) ...... Hope this helps ya, Bill
502 - 396 = 106, which is 106 + Ft. Lb's more........
ps, & it'll look like a 396. Only you & this web site will know! And I for one won't tell..... ;0
okay, maybe it will be hard for a 396, what if i went with a 408? i know it woud be easier to get more power. see guys the thing is i dont want anything bigger. like a 427 is maybe a little to big. and i dont want this thing to be a super gas hog. what would you guys recomend i use if i got a 408? for the numbers i want?
how are 408 made? is it a 400 bored over? because i dont want anything to do with with a 400 sb, or any thing made from em. im scared about the water jackets in em. member guys, anything thats under a 427, ill roll with but i want it to be a big block. is there anything between?
" my goals are for the engine are to pump out 450-500 horse power and as much torque i can get"
"i dont want this thing to be a super gas hog."
I hope I'm not the only one who sees a contradiction here. Sorry hooker, but you can't have it both ways. Make a choice.
1. Less cubic inches means that your going to have less torque, unless you use nitrous or a supercharger.Quote:
Originally posted by mad hooker
okay, maybe it will be hard for a 396, what if i went with a 408? i know it woud be easier to get more power. see guys the thing is i dont want anything bigger. like a 427 is maybe a little to big. and i dont want this thing to be a super gas hog. what would you guys recomend i use if i got a 408? for the numbers i want?
2. Yes, with a 408 you will get more power than with a 396 {all else being equal}. 408 - 396 = 10. So expect about 10 more HP & 12 more Ft. Lb's Tq.
3. a. gas milage & big block don' t belong in the same sentence.
b. You will get better gas milage with a 502 & a small cam
then with a 396 & a big cam.
c. Plus mainly how you drive it is going to determain your gas
milage. I once had a 396, 375 HP '69 Nova. I drove it like
I stole it and got around 5 MPG. But THEN gas was 30 cents
a gallon ;)
4. Unless money is no object & you have some sort of 'mental thing' about a 396, go with the crate motor I mentioned......
:HMMM: i have attemped to say that. and396 to 408will do much BUT a 396to468or 496 know you are closer to getting what you want but the gas:whacked:Quote:
Originally posted by techinspector1
" my goals are for the engine are to pump out 450-500 horse power and as much torque i can get"
"i dont want this thing to be a super gas hog."
I hope I'm not the only one who sees a contradiction here. Sorry hooker, but you can't have it both ways. Make a choice.
alright i think its time i get realistic here. i think im looking for too much power. realistically, i dont need all that power. how about this guys, what what if i use a 396 , get arond 420 hp and around 450 ft-lbs of torque? are these numbers more easily exstractable out of a 396?
now you are getting warm
...mad hooker, The reason that there are very few parts for a 396 & that parts are expensive is that very few people use them anymore. Why? The advantage to a big block is more cubic inches, bigger/better heads for better breathing, etc. In it's day {the 60's} 396 cubic inches was big. The small blocks were only 350 cubic inches. Now they have 472 small blocks. Big blocks go out to 750 or more. 396's are obsolete. Big blocks weight more. Why have a 396 cubic inch big block that weights a lot when you can have a 400 + cubic inch small block that weights less? Also less weight means better handleing. Parts are hard to find & more expensive. Unless you have a numbers matching 396 it is better, cheaper, easier & more efficent {sp. wrong} to use a crate motor like a 454 or 502. Why do you thing GM makes 'em? Why do you think everyone uses 'em? NO special one of parts, just everything out of a catalog. And they look like a 396. No one goes out looking for a 396 to build it..... Bill
i have one all fresh and you can not buy much for what i have to sell and this is what the dest top dyno said about it is a409.8 it will make 435 @5000 rpm and504tq @4000 OH this is a roller cam hyd and 9-1/2 to1 not to bad for a small engine
its a 409? those numbers are perfect! did you biuld that same engine? thats what i want right on the dot. if you made please tell how you did.
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