cam help/ideas/advice

hey guys. well i just picked up a 454. it was rebuilt about 4k miles ago. it was rebuilt stock other than being bored .030 over. the heads are #346236. I am trying to figure out what cam i should go with. i dont want something too boring, but also nothing too radical. i dont care about gas mileage or anything like that. i just want to make some power since i know my heads suck. so any part #s or anything like that would be great. i also am in need of an intake and carb, so advice there would be great too. thanks.

and the gear i believe is 3.73. this is a weekend only kinda car. take it to the track every once in a while. if you guys need any other info, just let me know.

You might want to try this...
120021 Howards, Camshaft, Chev BB, Hydraulic, F/T,
Howards, Camshaft, Chev BB, Hydraulic, F/T,
Lift: .476"/.502" Duration @ .050": 204/214 Lobe Center: 112 Exceptional low end torque. Good in PUs, 4X4s and RVs

Nice, simple hydraulic. Or this one...
120031 Howards, Camshaft, Chev BB, Hydraulic, F/T,
Howards, Camshaft, Chev BB, Hydraulic, F/T,
Lift: .505"/.525" Duration @ .050": 215/225 Lobe Center: 112 Great low and mid-range torque. OK in heavy vehicle

Dont make the mistake of over-camming the engine, you'll end up with a dog. The problem with a stock 454 is the low compression ratio, which limits cam choice. But even with those heads, you can still have a torque monster, and that's good on the street...it just wont be very good at the track, runs out of steam before you get the rpms up. But that's OK, you can build for that later if you want to. Give John or Scott a call at Howard's Cams, 920-233-5228, tell them what you want, and what you have to work with. For a carb and intake, you cant beat an Edelbrock Performer, and a Holley 750 vacuum secondary carb. (or Edelbrock if you prefer) Set up with lots of initial timing, (18) and limit the total timing to 38 or so. I think you'll be very happy. Might be a stock engine, but they have mega torque. John

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Originally Posted by al5570

and the gear i believe is 3.73. this is a weekend only kinda car. take it to the track every once in a while. if you guys need any other info, just let me know.

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What is your stall speed?

well i will jump in the cams that is john.s pick will work good but you need to make this breath so a good set of headers 2 1/2 EX with one X cross this will help good Kn air fillter:whacked:

adding a 256-268dur. cam/dual plane intake and small tube headers will really wake up that 454 up!, if you wanted make even more power in the future,you can buy a cheap set of 781's or 049's on ebay for $100-$200 and just use your old valves from your 236's. my two cents

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adding a 256-268dur. cam/dual plane intake and small tube headers will really wake up that 454 up!, if you wanted make even more power in the future,you can buy a cheap set of 781's or 049's on ebay for $100-$200 and just use your old valves from your 236's. my two cents

A couple problems.....if you're talking duration at .050, way too big for a stock engine. This will kill the performance. And the large chamber 781's or 049's wont do any good without a c/r increase. A set of closed chamber heads would be a better choice, try and get the cc's down to 100 or maybe 98cc....this will give a little boost in the c/r. Large chambers and flat top pistons are not a performance build. Dual plane intake and headers were mentioned, but dont go too big on the headers, 1 3/4" are perfect.

yes johny o. i think so 268 if he is taking .050 ?? i do not talk adv. if he is then this would be a smaller cam then the picks.if not @050 this to much bettter with the cams you picked. i like the last one you picked and with out any cr i you not go any bigger or the 781 -049 heads but if you are will to go thru this then yes more cr more cam better heads

when we people around here talk cams, we mean advertised duration, and by the way you can make more power using open chamber heads (less valve shrouding) just have the heads milled to the desired compression ratio.

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Originally Posted by steelsixpack101

when we people around here talk cams, we mean advertised duration, and by the way you can make more power using open chamber heads (less valve shrouding) just have the heads milled to the desired compression ratio.

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no i do not who is WE? mill the heads down to what a small chamber then were will you be ? in take valves hanging down past the deck?? been there and done that . if this is a dish piston 454 it will have no CR .the heads he has will work ok with small valve the big block heads are canted so they move from the chamber walls when open yes you could run the 781/049 mill the heads . put the piston.010 in the hole to the deck run a steel shim head gasket run a bigger cam ??? you will have no pistons to valve why?? you just cut it all off the deck AND heads now the in take valves are haning down in the hole ??the bore size will help any head work better and if he works on the ex headers / X cross .and intake and cam with the heads he has with a re cam it should be it 370 hp +? so at this point i still do not know what he wants to do?? not do any thing to it is what i get. just a recam? if so. not rework the engine. then i would run the marine/ Rv cam in it call it good .or buy a 598/638 pump gas engine from me:3dSMILE:

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when we people around here talk cams, we mean advertised duration, and by the way you can make more power using open chamber heads (less valve shrouding) just have the heads milled to the desired compression ratio.

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We people?? HHmmm.. Thats the first I have heard that. And that's not true about open chambers, you can make tons of power with closed chamber heads, it depends on what else you do with the chamber as far as porting, unshrouding, etc...Milling the heads can only be done so much, then, as Pat said, you get into p/v clearance issues, intake not fitting, etc...a whole host of problems. Open chamber heads only came around because they supposedly run 'cleaner' on the smog engines of the early 70's...it was done for smog reasons, not power reasons.

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Originally Posted by 1JohnnyO

We people?? HHmmm.. Thats the first I have heard that. And that's not true about open chambers, you can make tons of power with closed chamber heads, it depends on what else you do with the chamber as far as porting, unshrouding, etc...Milling the heads can only be done so much, then, as Pat said, you get into p/v clearance issues, intake not fitting, etc...a whole host of problems. Open chamber heads only came around because they supposedly run 'cleaner' on the smog engines of the early 70's...it was done for smog reasons, not power reasons.

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oh yes i made good power with close chamber head s:D

you know when i meant "we people" i actually meant it as people from around where i live. i could care less how you guys go about figuring cam specs. as far as the heads go, depending on what year the 454 it is, it probably already has open chamber heads. there weren't too many 454's that had the closed chamber heads, but i sure you guys already knew that,right? as far open chamber versus closed chamber, i never said you couldn't make good power with closed chamber heads- you can. i just said the open chamber heads are better for making power than closed chambers heads. just look at every big block chevy aftermarket head-brodix-edelbrock-dart-AFR-canfield- world products. everyone of them has a open chamber design,i wonder why? also when it comes to milling, I have milled 781 cylinder heads .080 off the deck and ran a cam with close to .600in valve lift. I never had any problems. i'm sure this guy with his 454 can get way with milled cylinder heads, thin gaskets and a smaller duration cam! wow! as smart has you guys are about the chevy big block i thought you would of know more about the history and developement of this family engine. johhny0, your right on that,one reason why chevrolet went with open chamber heads is better emmisions, theres also another reason why, less valve shrouding. and actually chevrolet did dyno testing on the 454 , they used closed chamber head in one test and open chamber head in another test and despite the compression loss, the 454 with the open chambers made more horsepower. even if he did put a cam in he would probably would want to increase compression in the first place, just my thoughts on your little s***pile. and also when i did reply to the fellow with the 454, meant to reply to him, not you.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/ima...s/laughing.gif

well my dart big chief heads have 89 or so cc heads and 2.400 intake and 1.900 ex .you could care less????? then why did you post ???if you post on a cam you should say av or @050?? or should we find out were you came from so we know???? i have had big blocks with 520 lift cams hit with no pv so do not piss on me and tell me it rain

Steelsixpack, it's obvious from your reply's here in this string, and other posts throughout this forum, that you dont really have a handle on making the right parts work together. Less experienced guys come here and ask for help, and sometimes they take what they read here as the whole truth. They might end up building an engine based on bad info. I am responding to what you said because it's not right, and I will continue to do that whenever I see bad info, whether it's from you or anyone else. I would hope anyone else that frequents this board would do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by steelsixpack101

when we people around here talk cams, we mean advertised duration, and by the way you can make more power using open chamber heads (less valve shrouding) just have the heads milled to the desired compression ratio.

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No one that builds engines talks about cam's in terms of advertised duration.
The reason is every cam company is different.
I do "roll" the heads meaning that I angle mill them.
Yes,in the small block Chevy after-market heads you can pick up hp doing this.
One because it will raise your compression and two because it will change the angle of the valve as it relates to the cylinder head.

I think everyone lost track about what is going on here.
We have one guy talking about BBC open chamber heads that cost about $1,650 bare and another person talking about BBC closed chamber head that costs about $2,100 bare or $2,900 depending on what angle they are.
When Pat runs his 14* or 18* heads he will run a different style pistons for those heads.
These heads let him use a piston with a smaller dome and still put him over 15 to 1 if that's where he wants to go.
The heads Pat has will put him at 1,000 hp or more naturally aspirated on a 565 engine.

johnny0, i do see your point about how if you see something wrong with another's engine combo, you correct them or give your personal opinion on how it should be. i do the exact same thing, thats why there clubhotrod. I every time i post a question about a situation or engine combo problem, i appreciate you guys helping me. but i built a few chevy engines with good power and have plently of experience. i know what works and what doesn't work on that particular engine. I have been down to many drag strips in minnesota and there are guys who have the most complicated and radical combinations, and there have been guys who told these guys that there engine combos will never work and it will be pos.those guys were the fastest down on the strip and also had half the money of many others in there cars.the reason why they were they fastest is because they what worked and were not afraid to race on the edge.these guys had simple mopars chevys and fords with iron heads with very little money into there eingines. theres been guys who come down there with expensive stroker engines and top of the line aluminum heads and got the living crap kicked out of them. the point is that sometimes one engine combo may seem strange or wrong to you, but they guy who's building it, might know a little more than you think he does. and even if the guys engine combo turns out like dog poo, then he learn from that combo and make it different.

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Originally Posted by steelsixpack101

johnny0, i do see your point about how if you see something wrong with another's engine combo, you correct them or give your personal opinion on how it should be. i do the exact same thing, thats why there clubhotrod. I every time i post a question about a situation or engine combo problem, i appreciate you guys helping me. but i built a few chevy engines with good power and have plently of experience. i know what works and what doesn't work on that particular engine. I have been down to many drag strips in minnesota and there are guys who have the most complicated and radical combinations, and there have been guys who told these guys that there engine combos will never work and it will be pos.those guys were the fastest down on the strip and also had half the money of many others in there cars.the reason why they were they fastest is because they what worked and were not afraid to race on the edge.these guys had simple mopars chevys and fords with iron heads with very little money into there eingines. theres been guys who come down there with expensive stroker engines and top of the line aluminum heads and got the living crap kicked out of them. the point is that sometimes one engine combo may seem strange or wrong to you, but they guy who's building it, might know a little more than you think he does. and even if the guys engine combo turns out like dog poo, then he learn from that combo and make it different.

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I know of very few people who drag race that have very little money in their engine.
I am not sure what you mean by "having the living crap kicked out of them".
If you are talking about "bracket racing" which is racing against your "dial in" then I am really confused.
Then the only person some one kicked the living crap out of was themselves.
In bracket racing it is all about being consistent.
If there still is "heads up run", "run what you brung" racing in Minnesota well than that is different.

Boy, we sure have traveled far in this thread. Just to interject on the drag racing thing, I don't have much $$$ into my .030 over 396 and it makes a very reliable 13s bracket car. Here in CO we do have some heads up classes with generally 7 and 8s cars (at altitude) and everyone of those guys have more $$$$$ in their engine compartments than I have in my entire car (x3).

I wonder if al5570 found a good answer to his original question? :whacked:

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Originally Posted by skids72

Boy, we sure have traveled far in this thread. Just to interject on the drag racing thing, I don't have much $$$ into my .030 over 396 and it makes a very reliable 13s bracket car. Here in CO we do have some heads up classes with generally 7 and 8s cars (at altitude) and everyone of those guys have more $$$$$ in their engine compartments than I have in my entire car (x3).

I wonder if al5570 found a good answer to his original question? :whacked:

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A 13 sec. bracket car???What class would that be???
:whacked: :whacked:

I like to call it "super-slow" :LOL: :LOL: (Sportsman class). I'm shooting for mid 11's next year... BTW: bring this car to sea level, re-jet and I would already be low 12's

Why so much grief? I'm one of the faster cars in Sportsman class and sometimes run in the Pro Street class (<13.8s class break)... not to mention I'm one of very few there that is not a trailer-queen... you said yourself bracket racing is about consistentcy not speed...

So, Al5670, did we scare you away?? Sorry this went this way, it's easy to stray. How are you making out in your research??

sorry for the confusion, when i meant the guy got the living crap kicked out of him, i meant he got beat badly in the race. He was running his mouth and was saying he could beat this one guy with a 67' nova. the guy had very expensive 434 SBC, that was built to beat the guy with the nova. the guy with nova has very simple 468 with ported 781's and 6-71 blower with about 820hp. the 434 made more horsepower and torque per RPM than the blown 468. the guy with the nova track this guy down met him at the track and did several heads up races, the 468 nova won everytime.the nova has about $14,000 into the whole entire car. the 434 camaro had about $35,00-$40,000 into the car. it just shows brains over money!

^^^ no replacement for displacement (and a blower!)

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Originally Posted by 1JohnnyO

So, Al5670, did we scare you away?? Sorry this went this way, it's easy to stray. How are you making out in your research??

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yes he pulled all his hair out:confused: every time 1johnnyO and erik erikson are on you guys are trouble:D i have a hardtime with taking a120 or so cc open chamber head and cutting .080 off it and calling it and open chamber:confused: and the 45 on the intake valve would be on the deck that is not the way i would go you will have to sink the valves on the intake to get the 45 off the deck your back were you were? the point on my heads is they are small chamber and like erik said they can make good power on a 565 but i putting on my 650cid:D

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

yes he pulled all his hair out:confused: every time 1johnnyO and erik erikson are on you guys are trouble:D i have a hardtime with taking a120 or so cc open chamber head and cutting .080 off it and calling it and open chamber:confused: and the 45 on the intake valve would be on the deck that is not the way i would go you will have to sink the valves on the intake to get the 45 off the deck your back were you were? the point on my heads is they are small chamber and like erik said they can make good power on a 565 but i putting on my 650cid:D

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Pat when I was talking about "rolling" heads I meant on small block after-market heads.
The Dart Pro 1 heads 345,AFR 357 etc I.M.O. are enough for most low deck BBC'S.

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Originally Posted by erik erikson

Pat when I was talking about "rolling" heads I meant on small block after-market heads.
The Dart Pro 1 heads 345,AFR 357 etc I.M.O. are enough for most low deck BBC'S.

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yes i know. i was talking about steel six pack cutting .080 off the deck of his 781 heads and calling them open chamber heads:confused:i was trying to say that a close chamber head can make power ?? the big chief heads ? at this point i need to lay down :whacked: yes the big chiefs are over kill but i have them :D

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every time 1johnnyO and erik erikson are on you guys are trouble

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What!!!!!:eek: :eek: Trouble!! ?? Never from me! :p :p Erik, are we just gonna sit back and take this?? Yeah, when I saw .080 on the 781's, I cringed....I thought I took a lot off mine at .042. Anyhow, Hello guys!