Your Thoughts On This Engine In Street-Use?

I don't know if this is exactly the right place to get asking this question (if not, could you please direct me to another forum?), but I'm looking for some of your "expert" thought on the use of this engine in EVERYDAY street use:


http://www.carcraft.com/carcraft/pro...afr_5094_z.jpg


Here's the rundown:

GM 454 H.O. Crate Engine
Add Ons:
825-cfm Mighty Demon
Edelbrock Victor Jr. Intake
Performance Distributors D.U.I.
Vortech Supercharger
Crane Hydraulic-Roller Cam
(230/236 degrees at .050 - .598/.610 intake/exhaust lift)
Crane Hydraulic-Roller Lifters
Crane Valvesprings

Power Output:
779 Horsepower
706 Lb-Ft Torque

Basically, like I said, your thoughts?

Idle quality, etc, etc...

I love this engine, because with the exception of the camshaft, lifters, and springs, it's a bolt together operation that makes ungodly power, should last a long time, and runs on pump gas.

Sounds to me like it would be decent for occasional street use, but driving it every day might be a stretch. Keeping it cool in traffic could be a challenge, plus keeping the tune up fresh would be tough. For dailey street use how much difference are you gonna see between 779 and 650 HP? I'd think you could de tune it some and still get the great visual affect. Could possibly do this with a milder cam, a wastegate on the blower or even different pullies to change the boost.

Pat

Streets,

It does run perfectly well on "regular" premium 91-octane pump gas, as compression is 8.75/1.

I won't get in the throttle unless I "need" to, so the stoplight issue is lost on me.

Earplugs...why? As long as you have an standard-exhaust set up, I don't see why you'd need earplugs.

Stu Cool,

I've had carburetred engines and turbo/supercharged engines, but never a carbureted supercharged engine.

I really don't think it would be that had to keep in tune though (anymore than a standard carbureted setup).

Yes, the power level is ungodly, but with a 3.47 pulley, it's only making 5-7 P.S.I.

...Not trying to bash you guys, seriously though, thank you for even taking the time to reply...

You still said daily driver. Not sure where you plan to do your daily driving but if you encounter any amount of traffic at all, that will be the challenge. Extended low speed operation or long idles will be the tough things to deal with. Keeping it cool and keeping the motor from loading up are the things you will need to plan for. You don't mention what you plan to put it in, or what drivetrain you would have to back it up. I would think that motor would be a kick to drive. If it were mine, I would keep it to cruise week-ends and satruday nights. Driving to work or the grocery store is better suited to a less radical ride.

No bash felt here, you asked for our opinion, you've got mine.

Pat

I can't tell if your looking for opinions or arguments. That much horse is not a daily driver..... It does qualify as a really nice cruiser if you have the other goodies to back the motor up with. My "daily driver" is a rust bucket '85 pickup with 135,000 miles on it, I don't like to have to worry about the common everyday idiots on the road every minute I'm driving. That much horse and trying to lug it around in traffic will kill the motor.

That's too much HP for a daily driver.

Fuel consumption will be through the roof and the heat generated will be really high. Let's not forget that the streets do get wet and it's hard to drive a car with that much HP on wet/icy pavement. Also the carb is a REALLLY bad idea when you are supercharging a daily driver-electronic fuel injection would be the only way to go and even then you better have a lambda style o2 sensor and controller.

Abe

:whacked: :whacked: :whacked:

Don't mean to argue with anyone, but...

I'll try to address everything so far:

First off, I think what clouds some of your judgement about this engine in street use is the power it makes, BUT YOU MUST realize that it is not some exotic beast, just a straight-forward GM crate engine with a Vortech that is running low boost pressures and, among other things, a mild camshaft.

Second, I won't be "lugging" the engine around...I put enough faith in myself to drive this thing properly.

Streets, do you have an issue with the compression ratio with the supercharger on this thing and it's ability to run on pump gas? During it's testing phase, this engine has ran beautifully with no detonation on 91-octane pump.

F.N.G, I just can't buy the statement of having too much power...I don't have to be running with my foot in it all the time, just when I "need" it. Heck, I know some who say cars such as the ZO6 Vette and new Ram SRT-10 have too much power...

Also, on wet and icy pavement, I won't be getting into all the power of the engine...that would be kinda ignorant.

Why is the carb. such as bad idea with the supercharger? With the Vortech box inclosure and Demon carb, the engine runs great. Besides "normal" tuning that is required of carberetors, I fail to see where it will take that much more work.

And yes, it will generate a good amount of heat, but as long as you run a good cooling system, I don't see any issues with overheating.

Once again, not trying to bash or start an argument, just playing devils advocate. So far, no one has presented any evidence of this thing not being a very streetable engine for day-in, day-out use.

You asked our opinion but I think instead you want a debate.

Have you ever DAILY driven a car with even so much as 400 HP? Until you drive a 400HP car (that has torque to match the HP) on glare ice or even a freshly wetted asphalt street you will probably not understand why you can't drive a 700HP and 700 ft lb torque engine on the street DAILY.

Abe

Abe,

Debate would work if you would like...:)

Yes, I have DAILY driven cars/trucks with over 400 horsepower/400lb-ft torque.

You just have to learn good throttle control and realize, at least compared to standard factory cars, that when you barely touch the pedal, you're obviously putting a whole lot more power to the ground, thus giving you a greater chance of wiping out. Don't jump in it, be smooth, and you'll be O.K. If I don't use the 700hp/700lb-ft until I need it, I see no problem.

I guess an easy way to settle this is put the darn motor in a school bus, rip away all you want, if you want to make 700 horse go for it, i dont see how your gonna make this a daily driver no matter what though, it will be a no nonsense race car with that kind of power, plus always remember, things look good on paper but its not always that way. What do you plan on putting this in, what is the torque curve? how do you really ease into a motor if your putting out 500 ft lbs at 2500 rpms? Just all things to consider, but all in all i guess the more horse the better huh? Sounds like a killer motor, anyone would love to have it but If you have the money and are really serious then you have your mind made up, what else do you need? besides a really strong driveline???**)

You got everything figured out, I say go for it. Send us a picture when you have it done. Or started for that matter

Pat

Oh man.!!!!....Does this mean you guys are'nt going to respond to any of my... debateable...arguementive...narrow minded...deaf eared...and " I already have the answer" questions.????.............I mean..I have a good running engine from a 1953 Sabre jet fighter down in the south forty...Do you think it would make a good commuter car if I duct taped it to a roller skate.????....:confused: :confused: ........:whacked: :whacked: :whacked:

lets see here, ya want opinions & ya got some, but ya dont like them.... so here's my question, Y ya asking ????'s when ya got your motor pic off of the CarCraft website
http://www.carcraft.com/carcraft/pro...afr_5094_z.jpg and if it is your motor those folks over at CarCraft should of been able to answer all ur ????'s , personally, ya it may run on the street but you have a hand full, but I think ur just blowin smoke out ur butt & are full of IT , but then thats my own opinion.............joe

I posted here, and not CarCraft because at least according to another board I am on, this is the place to come if you have a question about old cars, engines, and such.

At least in my view, I asked your opinion, because any good opinion is at least backed up with some fact...but no one here can give me any good reason why this thing couldn't be run on the street daily. So far, Streets is the only one who brought up a legitimate issue in regards to this engines ability to run on 91-pump gas...when asked though, he has no evidence to back up his statement, believing that detonation will blow the engine apart.

With that said, I'm sorry I came here and started up all this ruckus...I can get opinion from anywhere, and at least someone thought I could come here and get FACT.

Take care guys.

Hey, not to worry...
Reading magazines is a cool thing to do.
I read almost every car magazine out there..
I go to Books-a-Million, and Barnes&Noble and spend hours there reading (read that as cheap SOB). Then I save all that money I would have spent on magazines and actually spend it on car stuff.
Build your dream. That's cool.
But, realize that the magazines are there for a reason...
1) sell magazines
2) sell advertising in that magazine.
In order to do that they have to entice the buyer that the latest widgit is an absolute must have, and the only place to get it is from their advertisers....
If you've been around a while, you will tend to see this trend with engine builders early in their monetary careers...
I want a 500" KB Hemi on nitro too, but having built a lot of engines, the gee whiz factor fades real fast when the wallet gets sucked dry before I am even out of the driveway.
Everyday driving is for everyday cars....and engines.
Street rods are not everyday cars, except for the intensly stubborn, the broke, and the ignorant.
If you have x dollars to spend...invest them into something that will provide you with enough quality income to play the hot rod game on a new level.
Getting mad at people here because their shared wisdom does not fit your mechanical acumen for knowldge gained from periodicals is ludicrous (cool sentence, huh? <g>)...
Build your engine. What kind of half C10 are you going to put it in?
800 hp in snow and rain.. uh...ok.
Prove us all wrong.... Double dog dare ya! <g>
All the facts in the world won't help you when you are in the ditch.
Jeff (btdt...) Rice







I posted here, and not CarCraft because at least according to another board I am on, this is the place to come if you have a question about old cars, engines, and such.
At least in my view, I asked your opinion, because any good opinion is at least backed up with some fact...but no one here can give me any good reason why this thing couldn't be run on the street daily. So far, Streets is the only one who brought up a legitimate issue in regards to this engines ability to run on 91-pump gas...when asked though, he has no evidence to back up his statement, believing that detonation will blow the engine apart.
With that said, I'm sorry I came here and started up all this ruckus...I can get opinion from anywhere, and at least someone thought I could come here and get FACT.
Take care guys.

I had a car that ran 750hp, and it is NOT!!! a daily driver. One problem was any day that was over 20c i would have trouble keeping it cool, even though i had a big 4 core custom made rad for it. 10c i could cruise all night, 25c + forget it, i would last about 1/2 hr. Rain soaked roads were not to much problems just have to take it easy, also had to watch my intake as it would suck in too much moisture. I would usually pull over until it stopped. When you got to get somewhere you don't have the time to screw with your car. Pump gas would work for me, running premium and 2 bottles of octain boost getting about 8 mpg if you could afford it. Everytime i drove that car i would have to do a check on everything before i started it up. Cars like that are just not meant to be driven everyday. It was a blast to drive but only on special days. Personally i would limit myself to about 500hp for an everyday driver depending on what your putting it in, in a chevette!!!nnnnoooooo. There are alot of drop in crate engines that will give you that and it would give you a nice daily driver rod that you can have some fun with, besides what in hell are you going to use a 700hp in a daily driver for?. Any smarmy punk that gave me a hard time with my daily driver, i would go home and get killer and go hunting!!

what's this crate motor gonna run you?

If you don't want to listen to countless cases of "been there, done that", than do what you want. It's totally impractical for many obvious reasons you refuse to look at. Personally, I doubt you will ever own the motor anyway. Been doin this hot rod stuff for 30 years, I think I know tire kickin and BS when I hear it. Don't bother responding, just post me a pick of your ride.

I'm sure its not cheap I think that the much power for a dail driver is a waste of money unless your gonna race it on the weekends.

Quote:

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Fuel consumption will be through the roof

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No offense but with my right foot weighing in at about 100LBS thats always an issue, so what did I do, Screw it who need to save money at the pump when you can hand every one a little butt, ok never mind a BIG BUTT.:LOL:

Yenko once said a dependable car has 1 to 1.5 HP to CI ratio, but after all that was only Yenko I mean how much can he know. I have between 350 and 400 at the fly wheel in a 302. I would drive it every day if I could keep it running:LOL: Jokeing I would drive it every day if I could keep my self from buying bigger and better panrts and be able to keep it together for more than a week.:3dSMILE: You see I have a bad habbit I call it "HMMMM my wife is on a business trip and I have a credit card and Summit has a Deamon!!!!!"

Build it and enjoy


Otto

OK, first of all, streets, who is on your "iggy list"? My first name is David, just for future referance. Anyway, 700HP is way to much for street use. Think, power to weight ratio. Now, 1HP to 2lbs=no traction, possible flippage and no practical application. We wont even talk about tires. Also, with a higher HP engine, there is a greater strain on the essentials(crankshaft, connection rods, BLOCK) at best this will cause increased oil consumption, at best you run the risk of a breakage in traffic. Think about it.

Hey Streets.. I got vitalevalves that float so high that I had to register them with the FAA...or was it the FFA....could have been the BFA... no the BSA....XYZ.??...I don't know !!....Anyhow..Johnson rods and mono leafs all lubed and ready.!!..Red Green is bringing his duct tape. and we will be cruizing..Daddy. O.....:whacked: :whacked: :whacked:

hey inline, make sure you verified the refractory angles on the Johnson rods regarding their correlation to space time continum. You did remeber that it changes, right????

Dave..remember the changes.??....Hell yes.!!....The ole Sarge has verified that my head is in outer space most of the time ..so changing the derseldorfs and betweengs to correaltion plus a little continum alteration is a piece of cake.!!.....Damn.!!....She says my head is in outer space..The guy down the road says its up my ass......Wish somebody would make up their minds.!!....:whacked: :whacked: :whacked:

Yup, of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. I used to miss my virginity, but I found it.

OK, how exactly does one restore a lost virginity? Know what, I dont think I want to know. Anyway, I think that we should all get together and put this 700HP engine in a AMC spirit with a T350 and a concord rear end with 2:73 gears and drive across the country! at 30! with the factory 2.5L engines radiator! And, with the 91 octane fuel running in this engine, we should be able to drive it for about 400 miles at a mere cost of 200$ Lets see, 4MPG, 2$ a gallon, thats sound right? All we need is some duct tape, Expoxy, Lots and lots of oil, lots of Glycol and a cell phone. Oh, and a CD mix of course. what else are we going to do while waiting for the tow truck?

In all fairness, i have seen many 700+ horse cars go acrossed the country with no problems at all on the power tours. Im sure its possible for the right amount of money, i really dont think it matters anymore now though, i dont think this guys coming back, maybe hes studying, Hey streets, you should agree to this, your pushin 5000 with your t-bucket, right??????.:LOL:

.:) Compared to what drg84 just posted my mind is in total working order.!!:whacked: .......even though its lost....I mean.....If you've lost your virginity why not just post a note on the local bulletin board down at the Safeway store..." Lost Virginity" if found please call...555-9876....or......."Have you seen my mind.??"..Approach with caution..call 911.!!......I'm at a loss.:whacked: :whacked: :whacked:

Ask Lorena Bobbit's ex husband...he knows...:eek:
He had to learn how to use it all over again**)
Jeff:toocool:




DRG94 wrote:
OK, how exactly does one restore a lost virginity?
Know what, I dont think I want to know.

over 700 hp in a daily driver ...............why. thats gotta be a whole lotta fun in the traffic. :HMMM: i have a friend with a 550hp viper and its downright scary on wet surfaces and trust me these cars are glue on dry road...have fun:confused:

AND.....please send me a picture of the tree ya wrap it around.:D

1981 el camino 514 - 9'' ford dif. 400 trans. 454- 671 blower, 7.5 pistons, mild cam and everything else stock, 2- 650 carbs, had chokes working on carb for cold starts. drove it daily and to work for about 4 yrs. run pump gas, had some problems on a real hot day in town wonting to run hot. all it was good for was profiling, you couldnt kick the boost in because of the gas, i jeted the carb. for the st., couldnt run it wide open anyway. it had so much power, all it would do is spin . i had all of the heating, timing, braking things and hookup problems that goes along with something that extreme. he can do what he said but i dont think he would be willing to do what he would have to, to keep it running, its going to get old fast. ive had 2 el caminos and a 70 chev. conv. with motors close to what he was talking about. and yes it was dangerous to drive, no i didnt drive out of town with that gear. it was the only one like it in va. **) **)

Originally posted by inlineidiot [/i]
[B].:) "Compared to what drg84 just posted my mind is in total working order.!!:whacked:" YES! He Gets It!:D Seriously though, its physically impossible for the combo i listed to work. I just hope that the guy comes back. I wouldnt want to be partly responsible for sending another one away.:rolleyes:

In fairness, I will not say, 'Oh Boy, to Jlells01 yet', but 779 horse power on the street? Alright, I admit it's possible, anything is possible if youv'e got a lot of money, but if we divide 770 hp by 459 cu3 we are getting a cubic ratio of 1.7, now that would be getting a little bit iffy on stock engine parts. One thing about supercharging especially roots positive displacement blowers as well as generating hp, generate HEAT, because the rotors beat the (expletive) out of the air, this therefore heats up the intake charge. Possibly, as a lot of people know, when you are making full noise with a supercharged engine you keep one eye on the temp. guage and one eye on the road and one eye on the speedo. because all that heat has got to go somewhere - you better have a really good cooling system, if you want to stay out of trouble (detonation). Last thing, when you are trying to make 770 hp you won't be talking mile per gallon but gallons to the mile. So even if it had unlimited road space it would be a very expensive thing to run.
I would say being more realistic, is run the 454 with 1 hp per cubic inch and you'll still find it quite a handful. At least you'll be giving your cooling system a decent chance of doing its job. Personally. and this is just me, I would say the maximum hp you could run on the street is 400 at the flywheel and 325 at the rear wheels. If you really want to have fun on the street, concentrate on torque. Thats the real secret of street supercharging, blowers generate lots of low down seat of the pants torque and you can really feel that. :HMMM: :3dSMILE:

Quote:

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Originally posted by southerner
In fairness, I will not say, 'Oh Boy, to Jlells01 yet', but 779 horse power on the street? Alright, I admit it's possible, anything is possible if youv'e got a lot of money, but if we divide 770 hp by 459 cu3 we are getting a cubic ratio of 1.7, now that would be getting a little bit iffy on stock engine parts. One thing about supercharging especially roots positive displacement blowers as well as generating hp, generate HEAT, because the rotors beat the (expletive) out of the air, this therefore heats up the intake charge. Possibly, as a lot of people know, when you are making full noise with a supercharged engine you keep one eye on the temp. guage and one eye on the road and one eye on the speedo. because all that heat has got to go somewhere - you better have a really good cooling system, if you want to stay out of trouble (detonation). Last thing, when you are trying to make 770 hp you won't be talking mile per gallon but gallons to the mile. So even if it had unlimited road space it would be a very expensive thing to run.
I would say being more realistic, is run the 454 with 1 hp per cubic inch and you'll still find it quite a handful. At least you'll be giving your cooling system a decent chance of doing its job. Personally. and this is just me, I would say the maximum hp you could run on the street is 400 at the flywheel and 325 at the rear wheels. If you really want to have fun on the street, concentrate on torque. Thats the real secret of street supercharging, blowers generate lots of low down seat of the pants torque and you can really feel that. :HMMM: :3dSMILE:

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i dont belive he would have all that horse power anyway, in my case all i had was a stock 454 with a blower on it, so up untill you kick the blower in it was factory h. p. 200 h.p. ? if you put a blower on a stock motor nothing changes untill you kick the blower in and with a 514 gear around town there was no reason to run the motor WOT anyway. you'll are right about the heat and detonation and i have the head gaskets and piston to prove it and it took a lot of time and money but i ran a 454 blown motor with pump gas on the st. everday for about 15 yrs. you had to know what you could do or not do . under no condition could you run the motor WOT because of the heat and detonation. you could do most anything you wonted in low gear and some stuff in second gear but where you had to watch yourself was in high gear, so it made for a bad ass car from stop light to stop light. from 1982 to 1994 one of these cars was on the st. every day.except for the wagon just drove on sat. and sun. :D

Hey guys, the post was started last November. Don't think the original poster is even around anymore.....................

He's probably having too much fun cruising his daily driver. Or he flunked out of college and doesn't have acess to the computer.

All I can say is that if your driving that thing every day. GOOD LUCK. You got balls man. Anyone that calls that a daily driver likes to burn rubber. Have Fun in the rain

700 hp is very streetable, you just have to have the right sized vehicle.
Kenworth?