Printable View
Just got the bill from the machinest and, well, it was considerably more than I had anticipated. What do you think?
Bore/Hone $245
Deck $130
align hone $185
machine/install 2 lifter bushings $185
install/align cam bearings $53
balance rotating assy $180
And other odds and ends like magnaflux, assembling pistons/rods, etc. Grand total was $1238 for the machine work. I was expecting something on the order of ~$600 without the lifter bushings. Am I that out of touch?
-Chris
Seems reasonable to me. Just got a block bailed out last week, bill was about $1,000.00 with no work on the lifter bores.... Nothing is cheap anymore.....
Thanks, Dave, for the sanity check... I guess when you figure the price of gas was $1.50/gal not so long ago....
It is slightly more than my local guy charges, but he is an oldtime machinist, and maybe has not continued to increase his prices over the years. He charges about $ 20-25 per cylinder to bore, $ 45 for hot tank, $ 125 for line bore, etc.
But I used another shop to do my 394 Olds (had heard good things about this guy) and the tab was about $ 1200 for the operations you mentioned, so you are in line.
Ain't building cars FUN????????????? :D :D :D :D
Don
I paid $250 to have 6 cylinders bored, $54 to have 6 pistions and rods switched to new pistions. also decked the block .025. done with Napa.
send the work to me:D
Sounds about right to me... My guy gets $40 a hole....... Luckily I send him enough business that when I pick up my personal stuff he usually hands me his decals instead of an invoice.:LOL:
Wish I had when you offered before... live and learn :HMMM:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
-Chris
I'm curious why the "align/hone" was done?
Imo, not necessary in the great majority of cases.
Chris wanna share who it is......I'm not gonna bad mouth.....I know Denver metro and surrounding ares very well and was just curious.
well i bet that if the LINE HONE machine is in there shop they line hone.:D if you need it or not. you have to pay for them machines some how:rolleyes: have to keep the sunnen man happyQuote:
Originally Posted by C9x
Ya mean dem 'chines ain't free......not to mention payroll, quarterlies, workman's comp, over head and on and on. I feel for these guys stuck paying the man. I do believe from what I've seen, some prices for certain jobs are inflated and could have been bundled to give a come back customer a break....oh well......everybody's jumping into the pricing pool.
get on E-bay and look at the price of used machines and you will soon see this is a very tuff game not for the weak at hart .and keeping every things less than .0002 there is not much money to bore a block lets say $160 rate around here for .030 over and a hone . i was a body man for many years a got in to this work .less hard on the body but not the mind. i made alot more money doing body work
Man, I guess I'm lucky to live wayyyyyyyyyyy in the southern part of oklahoma because about 6 months ago I had a block done.
bore .030" x 8, Deck block to squareness, vat the block, install cam bearings, brass freeze plugs, and paint the block in nice shiny black high temp paint. I bought the block for $200 and the machine bill was $253...
just remember there are many ways to do a job. with my rottler f2b i could bore up to .002 less piston to wall and hone a block alot less time honing . and deck a block in my storm -vulcan at full feed speed not as good a finsh but still better than GM . and hold my bores at.0005 and not plateau hone the block or break the edges of the bottom of the bores so then things could happen much faster . not to say any one that get there work done cheap at there machine shops they are doing this .but it is a time thing and that = money
There ain't any public automotive shops holding tolerances to under 0.0002. For a journeyman machinist I might buy 0.0005. This is above and beyond what you need for any street motor. If they say they do then it's all talk; they can't prove it. Not even if you check it on their machine. The push off on the last word indicator dial alone is more than that. Now if you set the block up on a high dollar CMM machine then you can check it. But that machine will run you $100k.
Kitz
what you say ?????? (I need more money for my work) WELL i keep my bores below one 1/2 of a .001 you want to come over and watch me?? my sunnen ag-300 rod gauge reads in tenth s and the ga-2121 2-6 sunnen main bore gauge 12 deep and the gr-2241 for the mains you say 1/2 .001 well that on housing bores is to much :D but if you run a piston at .001 and your off at .0005 that is ok ??? or on a crank ? i build race engine and i can and do this and do. are you calling me a liar ?.if you want to say 5 tens is ok then 6 tens is ok i try to keep my rods at .0002 or less on size and 0002 tapper here is the deal they do give you a size on housing bores all most a full .001 now let say i do aset of rods and they are small to big a full .001 would you be happy with that?or on a line bore the same way ? when it can be better ? and you check and find you need 3 sets of main bearing and rods bearing s to get oil chearance to do the job and i say i have 7 tenths on the housing bores but well it was 9 tens and the crank is all up and down the same way to but hey it ok? how long could you tell guys this and do any work from any one ? i do my very best that i can do any my sunnen tools can read .i fit evey piston hone to fit less than 5 tenths from top to bottom of the bore . and no more than 3 tens off piston to bore and if get a new crank at 3 +tens of tapper on the journals i would not be happy . if you say 5 tenth s is ok ?? then you get a heavy stack on lets say 2 tenth s tapper on rod bore and 3 tens tapper on the bearing then your ok size on the crank 5 tenth s to big on the crank were is the oil clearance ? and it can go the other way to that is why i run every to i very low side not to 5tenth s on any thing in the mains or rods .i will move the bearing to get it right .but i do not know any thing :D by the way you do not need cnc to keep 5 tenth s it has been done all ago with out a 100k machines. i can keep less 1 thou on my old carroll jamieson flat belt lathe:DQuote:
Originally Posted by kitz
On every single race engine or hi-performance street engine I build it will get a line hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by C9x
Brand new Brodix,Dart,World,etc. need a small amount of line honing.
Now Pat for love of the Irish, no, I am not calling you a liar. For outside diameters such as measuring cranks and pins if you use a calibrated micrometer with a tenths vernier then you can resolve 2 tenths. For inside diameters you will need an ID micrometer (3 lobe type) with a tenths vernier, calibrated using its doughnut standard, and then you can resolve 2 tenths. If you are using a telescoping gage or simple ID mic as most shops do you are not going to routinely and accurately resolve 2 tenths. You could also use a dial bore gage with tenths resolution if you have the appropriate gage to set it up with.
When you align hone you can use your ID mics to verify the diameters but you cannot easily and accurately measure that the centers of each bore in the line are within 2 tenths of each other. As an experienced machinist though you know if it was set-up right it is as good as it can be.
And Pat you are at the top of a very short list for me the next time I need an engine built.
Kitz
the sunnen reads in tenths for rods it is made to do just rods it is call a AG300 and has 3 fingers that can be set off a std ring or a mic. the line hone this is a long sunnen GR-2241retractable bore gauges that reads in increments of .0001 and use a sunnen ga-2121 that reads in incrments of .0001 to check the AG-300 on rod s and any thing i want to get picky on .the bores i check with a sunnen bore gauge ga-2125 that reads in .0005 that will not move the gauge when i and done with the job. on cranks i O off the crank size set the bore gauge off the mic that gives me the size for oil and do it the same way on pistons
Careful Pat, you're giving away all your trade secrets. Let the customer come to you and enjoy your work. I find that too much info takes the customers mind to a different level and opens pandora's box. I like your integrity and workmanship as you described it. If it weren't for so darn much freight, I'd ship you my stuff. Especially since I just reaquired my old 68 Chevelle from high school and need the machine work done for the 540 I will put in it. Keep up the good work.
no big deal i do not have to many secrets i will not tell .if it helps some one good . i am doing a 496 roller engine for a 68 chevelle rigth now .that 540 will be nice engine for your car that is cool you still have it.i like the 548 s i had.still have one :D i had my GTO when i was in hi school .it was my dads . my mom sold it when my dad past got it back in 79 or so i will never get rid of itQuote:
Originally Posted by nitrowarrior
This old heap was aquired in High school. WHen I wanted to move on to a different world (NHRA) i decided to sell it to the son of the original owner. He sat on it for years literally and when he finally got into a bind and never touched it, I finally got him to relinquish back to me at a bargain. Many years waiting because of the sentimental value of it. I have the stuff for the 540, that's why I chose it. I would like to do a '48 but since I have the pieces, what the hey I'll do the '40. Now I have two more targets and 1 is a Henry J and 2, a 70 SS CHevelle like I use to own. Henry J will get a big boy and if I find the right 70 'velle, I'll probably keep it at no more than 502 or around there. I've been on cloud nine since the re-aquireing of my old stomping machine, wife is gonna kick me out and it took a lot of persuading to have her agree to the purchase. Yeah, like I need another project.....:LOL:
no wife or girl friend .just my dog and my big block donovans:D
Well, it's a good dog, anyway./......:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
yes he is :LOL: trying to get him to help out at the shop but he can not hang on to them tools with them small paws:whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Get him some bigger tools!!!! Pepper (my Cocker Spaniel) really likes the good Snap-on ones with the big covered handles, thinks they make great chew toys.....Great lesson for me on putting tools back in the box!!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
turn them back in snap-on should cover that ???
Snap-on John (my tool guy for the last 26 years) has assured me that not even Snap-on makes plastic and rubber handles that are puppy proof!!!!!:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Work was done at Ridge Reamer in Arvada... I understand his prices have been steadily climbing over the past few months...Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrowarrior
Bummer.... I know who they are. Arvada is my second "home". I have also seen in the last year how everybody including the Auto shops and equipment suppliers jump on the band wagon with their price jumps.
In the last few years I have had six or seven engines go to the Denver area.
The local Cobra club got a couple of the 347's.
The $165 in shipping from Des Moines to Denver did not bother them that much.
arvada Co not to far from lakewood CO
165 for an engine ship is not bad...those boys in Denver metro better start seeing where their money is going or you're going to get busier than you know...... I just don't want you to get over whelmed....:LOL:
No, Lakewood's just a little further south. $165 is cheaper than I would think to ship a motor :whacked:
To be fair, this motor full roller built to run 11's on 91 pump gas at mile high altitude N/A while driving to the strip and back... so not just a quick hone job. All blueprinted, balanced, 0 deck... Previous motor showed uneven wear in the bearings using the same crank I put in this one... align hone was appropriate, block also came from an old race motor already equipped with valley screens and 4 main studs.... (427 +0.060 if you're wondering)
still I thought $1200+ was a bit high for the work... Anyhow got the motor in Saturday and haven't been able to wipe the grin off my face :3dSMILE: (except when I threw the fan belt :CRY: ) ... I'll get it to the strip tomorrow for test runs :toocool:
I'll post times when I get them... I'm actually a little worried about running too fast as I can only tech to 11.50 so I plan on sneaking up on it: start with tall street tires and conservative shifts just to see what ballpark we're in.