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I don't want to sound too dumb so it may be that this already exists... But if not...
Why doesn't anyone make a fuel rail for street applications that has some kind of heat-sink setup? Like in air cooled computers and other equipment you see a pipe with thin fins that give the heat more surface area to dissipate from, how come no one has this? if they do who?
oh and the name was a joke...lol
and a cute one at that!Quote:
Originally Posted by zero_presence
First concept you want to grasp is that vapor lock happens in the mechanical fuel pump mounted to the block. It's designed to pump a liquid not a gas vapor.
well I was talking to a tech that works for holly and he was telling me " I wish they didn't even make them clear" because apparently just because you don't see the liquid in the filter doesn't mean its not reaching the intake charge in a liquid state. What I DO know is that upon a vapor lock situation, pouring cold(ish) water on the pump, lines and fuel rail causes the fuel to liquify, even to the point where the filter is FILLED with liquid fuel. It takes a good 20 minutes of sitting and running in the heat before it gets too bad to keep it running. So I figure it shouldn't take too terribly much to keep it cool enough to run. So I fugure a finned fuel rail will cause what vapor passes through it to liquify again. I mean it would be esier to design that than a finned pump that would look like a sea urchin on crack!
They have one already ,its called a return regulator ,that returns the hot fuel to the tank.:3dSMILE:
hmmm, i dunno... I don't see that solving my problem. I would think that It would just put hot fuel in my tank full of cool fuel and making it warm and causing it to vapor-lock easier. Besides would'nt that be allot more expensive than a small piece of metal tubing with fins that would just be a bolt on application?
Summit has some products. Search under fuel cooler. I've seen billet styles but can't remeber the manufacturer. Look for radiator manufacturers and trans coolers as well.
I agree with all that's said above. In general if you are using a mechanical pump make sure the fuel lines are not getting close to hot (exhaust) surfaces. This goes for return line applications too. An electric pump with regulator/return line is a real good way to prevent vapor lock or fuel boiling.
Kitz
yeah that's true. I did run all my lines away from the motor the best I could. I even gave them some extra length to increase surface area for better heat dist.
does anyone anticipate any problems with using a trans fluid cooler to run my fuel through to keep it cool?
Do a search on this info ..........one of the main benifits of a return line fuel regulator is that the fuel gets cooled down and is the main reason the newer fuel injected cars rarely ever vapor lock..............
I would not rig up some fireball exsperiment with the fuel system and a trans cooler,do the research and listen to the answers ,there are proven methods for resolving this issue ,one of the main ones is to use a return regulator to cool the fuel ,I know this and many others do as well,do some research and whne some one gives you a answer ,dont say ,you do not see the benifit and then ask about using a transmission cooler in the fuel system..............:HMMM:
One of the main things many articles and many books on fuel systems stress is to keep the fuel lines as short as possible to reduce heat soak .................you are doing no good exsposing cool 80 degree fuel to a 150 degree engine bay in hopes of some sort of cooling effect....:CRY:Quote:
Originally Posted by zero_presence
The longer it takes for the fuel to travel the length of the line ,the longer it has to soak up engine heat,also the size of the line matters ,if its too large for your application ,it will allow even more heat soak by increasing further the time it sits in the line before reaching the carb/throttle body /injectors...etc.
Thats one of the reasons its recomended to get the regulators as close the the carb as possible to reduce the single non returning line length to reduce heat soak and pressure differences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnlee28
Not exactly. The main reason is that the pump isn't attached to the block where it would act as a heat sink. It's both cooled and lubed by being in the fuel tank normally.
Yeah, but lockification is really one kewl word and justifies a long conversation about vapor lockification!!!!!!!!:whacked: :whacked:
I may have got over zealous ,but a transmission cooler is not the answer.:rolleyes:
Remember "cool cans". What if you took one of those and put a thermo electric cooler in it? This is the same technology igloo uses in their 12v cooler chests.
I had problems with vapor lock when I switched to braided AN lines that soak up the heat. My solution was a bypass regulator/return line. Rather than fuel dead heading at the carb it is constantly flowing so doesn't have time to get hot in the first place. Insulating the line and regulator did no good and heat sinking the fuel rail I do not think will be significant benefit. Cool cans are good but I don't know how good for street application...
Shawnlee28 said it first and in my experience bypass/return is the best solution to the problem
two cents
-Chris
The trans cooler will heat the fuel more.
Skids72; I ran a cool can on the Streets in Las Vegas for years.
But the ice didn't last long driving around during the day with 120 temps out there.
Mostly just good when you are going to be racing and have access to a big ice chest.
You guys realy hit on a good subject here and making me re - think my fuel line run.
I am not running a bypass right now, but you guys have convinced me that I should be.
Though I am running a big steel line from a mech pump, I'll be changing it now to electric
back in the tank. Still gonna run the big steel line though so I can get plenty of fuel in a hurry. Thanks for the tips guys. Kurt
Although the original post is getting close to 2 years old I think we are going to find especially on carbureted vehicles that vapor lock and heat soak after the vehicle is shut down is going to be an ongoing issue especially as the fuel boiling point is lowered with the addition of ethanol mandated by the eco-Nazis. I know 3 of my cars that have never had a problem before did last summer when the area I’m in started running 10% ethanol on a year around basis. I also noted that the EPA has recommended raising the allowable limit of ethanol to the 15-20% area.
Besides the obvious of routing the fuel lines away from heat sources and Phenolic carb spacer (to prevent heat soak) the best methods I have found to prevent vapor lock and heat soak are increasing fuel line pressure (but only so much can be done in this area without overwhelming the needle and seat) building a bypass/fuel return system.
The solution I’ve come up with for my 500 Caddy may not be the prettiest thing in the world but should be effective. I’m bypassing the fuel right at the needle and seat area to eliminate any areas that can heat soak all the way to the carb, as opposed to using a fuel pump or fuel filter with a built in return line provision or an aftermarket by pass regulator which wold still leave some sections of line to absorb heat.
The amount of fuel by passed and pressure retained at the carb is controlled by a changeable fixed restrictor located in the pipe leading to the return line. Like I said not necessarily pretty but it should be effective (and with the air cleaner on not to noticeable).
I personally like this because it's cheap (cheap is GOOD :LOL: ) and as there are no moving parts or diaphragm .....ever wonder why they sell rebuild kits for a lot of the fuel pressure regulators on the market?........there is nothing to fail.
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Put it in a new thread.
I used to work for a travel/adventure program that traveled 7500 mile through the western US. every summer for 4 years. We had two almost identical Dodge Ram 15 passenger vans. Every year when we were in the high desert of Utah one van would get vapor lock, the other van functioned flawlessly. We ended up at a Dodge dealership who mounted a second fuel pump(electric) to solve the problem, but alas the next year we experienced vapor lock again, and having to sit on the side of the road to wait for it to cool enough to get going again. Only to limp 20 miles at most before vapor lock stopped it again. The third summer I worked for MHL Adventures, I called Dodge's engineering tech line and explained what was happening. I really was tired of dealing with this every year, and wanted to nip it in the bud. What really stumped us was the two vans were near identical, one being slightly more posh(and the problem van) the other working fine? It turned out the fancier one had a slightly smaller gas tank, and a longer fuel line run(the combination causing the problem). The Dodge boys suggested when filling the gas tank(in the high desert areas) to add a quart of transmission oil which would raise the vapor point of gas, thus preventing vapor lock. I was worried this would screw up the engine some how, but he assured me, all it would do is add lubrication, and not damage anything, or void their warranty. So I figured what the hay, and when traveling through Utah that summer, every time we fueled up, we added a quart of tranny fluid to both vans. The wild thing is it worked great. Also as far as I know, the vans never incurred any damage related to this. Mind you it was in the late 1980's but seemed an easy solution to the problem that left 15 teenagers baking on the side of the road every summer for a few days.
Use an electric fuel pump mounted back near the tank. Running a return line allows the fuel to return and the fuel in the tank doesn't heat to the point of vapor-or-ization and helps.
Thanks, i suppose i should have updated this.... I already installed a electric fuel pump a good while back, I mounted it just a couple feet from the fuel tank. I also re-routed my fuel lines further away from my motor using fuel injection hose. I did run into a problem with the fuel pumps burning up which was quickly resolved by re-wiring the pump to run off a relay instead of a fused circuit straight from the battery..