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I am wondering how difficcult this is. I have a Haltech engine management system, MSD 8 channel ignition. I have a master tuner that can tune the engine via the Haltech. I am wondering what heads are needed to use fuel rails.
Anyone have any information on this procedure?
if you are going to use multi-port efi then the fuel rails attach to the intake....
Sorry that I didn't word it right. So basically I need to make two custom intake manifold or one plenum going into both heads with the 4 runners on either side. Then I need to make seats for each injector at the base of each runner going into the heads...correct?Quote:
Originally posted by dr_bowtie
if you are going to use multi-port efi then the fuel rails attach to the intake....
Then what about the fuel setup? With carb is there a fuel pump in the stock fuel cell like a fuel injected car has? Then i could use the same pump and fuel lines. I would just need a FPR and 2 fuel rails for each of the 4 injectors, correct?
After that I do the wiring harness from the ECU for everything including ignition and fuel injectors, correct?
What engine are you using? If it's an early SBC what about using a mid 80s TPI manifold and injectors, should be ablo to get the entire setup including injectors, fuel regulators, sensors, throttle body, etc for less than $100. Then just add your controller and harness.
If you need something more aggressive you can buy pre-machined injector seats which can be epoxied or welded into place on your tunnel ram or single plane manifold. I seem to remember you can buy a seat cutter from Russ Collins Ent (Torrance CA?). Fuel rail stock can be bought in 18" lengths from several suppliers. Check on http://www.msefi.com for sources.
Regards, Mark
Adding fuel injection to any intake manifold is easy.
Attached is a picture of injection added to an aluminum manifold.
The injectors fit into bungs that are welded into the manifold so that the injectors squirt into the ports. The bungs can be purchased from several vendors or made if you have a lathe. To feed the injections, the rails are aluminum extrusion that is an inexpensive purchased item. You tap the ends for fittings. Where the rails meet the injector tops, the rails are machined with a counterbore looking feature. Special clips hold the rails to the injectors.
The thing that replaces the carburetor is the air meter. It has no gasoline touching it. It has a couple of sensors; one is the throttle position sensor that tells the computer how open the butterflies are and the manifold absolute pressure which is akin to an electric vacuum gauge. there is also an IAC or idle air control valve that screws into the air meter. You can buy the air meter from MSD or several other places.
There are several other sensors such as the water temperature sensor, the inlet air sensor, and some crankshaft/timing sensors.
By the way, injection is like your dream girl....she is easy but not cheap.
Another good source of EFI information and parts...
http://www.auto-nomics.com/index.html
Cheers, Mark
Chevyboosting....
MAW's site has some good info AND brings up an important fuel injection fact that should be repeated here for those new to injection: The opening of the trottle blade(s) lets a certain amount of air into the engine just like the carburetor butterflies do. However, in a fuel injected world, some calculation has to be done regarding the amount of fuel to squirt for that particular amount of air. The computer makes the calculation. There are two methods used to measure the amount of air: speed density and mass air flow. The speed density method measures the incoming air temperature and pressure to calculate density. Also, the air speed thru a given opening is inferred by the trottle position and vacuum. The mass of the air is calculated.
For mass air flow, usually they use a heated wire in the inlet tract. It takes a known mass of air to cool the wire a certain number of degrees and the wire resistance is proportional to the temperature of the wire so the mass of the incoming air can be calculated.
Either method works, Chevy and Ford seem to bounce back and forth on which method they use. However, the important thing to learn is that there are components used on one method that are not used on the other.....like the hot wire used on mass air flow but not on speed density. Get familiar with your particular type and make a list of all of the components and their abbreviations. Soon, it will become simple to understand what each does and how they all work together.
Lots of information! Thank you! I like the bung idea which is much cheaper. I will do research on that.
That quote really sounds my speed!^^^^^Quote:
Originally posted by MAW
What engine are you using? If it's an early SBC what about using a mid 80s TPI manifold and injectors, should be ablo to get the entire setup including injectors, fuel regulators, sensors, throttle body, etc for less than $100. Then just add your controller and harness. Regards, Mark
The motor is a 1967 -427 Big Block engine with Weiland Stealth intake manifold, 750 Edelbrock carb, Sanderson block hugger headers.
Here are pictures of the big block that is in the Chevy I am about to purchase.
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/9...rengine3ik.jpg
http://img308.imageshack.us/img308/7...engine24kx.jpg
chevyboosting....if you already have the haltech controller, do some research regarding what components that are best compatible with it.....some haltechs can drive 4 low impedance injectors OR 8 high impedance injectors, etc......get to know the unit before buying stuff. Go to the Force Fuel Injection site, they have pics of a manifold converted to FI for a BBC.
mike in tucson
Hey thanks again!Quote:
Originally posted by robot
chevyboosting....if you already have the haltech controller, do some research regarding what components that are best compatible with it.....some haltechs can drive 4 low impedance injectors OR 8 high impedance injectors, etc......get to know the unit before buying stuff. Go to the Force Fuel Injection site, they have pics of a manifold converted to FI for a BBC.
mike in tucson
I am a little familiar with current OBDI and OBDII cars. I have ditched the MAF for MAP in the past by using standlone ECUs like the Haltech and AEM EMS. The MAF is tricky the more power you push and especially if you venture into forced induction which is what i know most about.
I have just never messed with a carb engine before. This is going to be my first classic hot rod so I am just getting my feet wet. I am very excited though since it seems that the parts for these engines are amazingly cheap compared to what I have dealt with using 5-10 year-old engines and turbochargers.
I haven't been doing the work myself since I don't quite have all the knowledge yet but I have learned. That is why this car I plan to do most of the work myself(other than the tuning via laptop).
I just know the first thing that I want to do is get the engine fuel injected and I have never done that before. I have now read that by using a system like the picture you posted, I can install a trottle body on top. I won't need the MAF of course because I will be using the MAP system. I searched around but I can't find one of those manifold setups for the 427 big block for sale online. I'll keep searching.
Next thing I am curious about is the fuel delivery. Is there an intake fuel pump used with a carbed system? I would think so, then I could use that and the fuel lines but just add the FPR and set up the fuel rails with AN fittings and steel braided lines right?