Do you hear the engine "tick"?? Video in this post!

You guys were helpful before, so I'll ask my next question about this engine...

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbNICZHNo9k

Here is when it happens:
- Engine warm
- NOT at idle
- most noticable at 1800rpm up to 2200, maybe is also higher but can't hear it
- under load or not, doesn't matter

Here is what I have done to diagnose:
- preloaded Lifter arms 2 times engine running hot (1/2 turn past quiet).
- used stethescope on engine when making noise (nothing jumps out)
- eliminated fuel pump, rocker arm ration, bad fuel, timing, too lean, too hot, carbon buildup, and flexplate bolts.
- oil is clean, and oil press is 25 at idle, moving up as rpms go up.
Engine construction:
- all aluminum heads (newer match set from Holley systemax)
- hi lift, long duration cam (Holley systemax)
- old headers with paper gaskets (tightened when hot)
- rockers looks good and the pushrod guideplates are adjusted.

Do you hear it? Any ideas what it might be? If it's just normal noise, I'm ok with that, but I do not want to be doing damage to the engine. Below is a video clip of the engine running with valve covers off so you can see rockers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuoUpnFBKK0

The lifters came with the Holley systemax kit which is now installed in the engine.

I am curious to know if you think the noise is a problem, or normal noise (probably not normal).

I have become very familiary with how valvetrains work including hydraulic lifters (because of this problem). My best guess now is 1) normal 2) slightly bent pushrod(s), 3) lifter(s) not pumping up (How do I check this?), 4) loose rocker arm studs (unlikely, just torqued them). 5) bent lifter?

A friend who has worked quite a bit on small blocks in his life (and whose dad build hydraulic lifters for many years) suggested to clear any blocked passages in the hyd lifter, I shoud tighten the rocker down until I get a misfire, and then quickly back it off to the proper setting. This I was told would clear a blockage.

Holley recommends 1/4 turn. The results and sound is the same anywhere 1/4 turn to 1/2 turn. I forgot to mention compression is 165-180 on all cylinders. I am concerned about tightening more and burning valves. I am running straight 30w Valvoline.

Oil pressure at 2000 is about 25PSI (I checked my video and it is about 18-20PSI at idle). When I primed the engine (not new, just head up refresh), oil came out of all 16 of the rockers. When running yes oil is coming out of each of 16 rockers.


What do you think of my 5 possible causes?

Here is a video of a pair of rockers close up FYI. Sorry for shakey, it was zoomed up and 1 handed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaZlUXqjtLA

I think your timing is coming on too soon. Try stiffer advance weights in the distributor. You can just back off the inital timing a bunch to see if it stops the noise and if it does, then go and buy the stiffer advance springs so you can run more idle advance.

Denny, thanks for the input. I have a few follow up question then:

IF you are correct and low oil pressure causes slow pump up of the lifters, why would the noise continue at a steady RPM and would the oil pressure not "catch up"?

Also, IF you are correct and low oil pressure causes the noise, is this a problem in any way? Is performance or longevity or durability sacrificed?

Thirdly, If you are correct..... Will a high volume oil pump resolve that issue?


Is it possible I have one, a few, or all failed lifters (collapsed spring, plugged port, sticking "wafer")?

Finally (kind of separate), the timing is set at 20 degrees, and I get no knock. I am planning to advance further until I get knock, then back off. This seems like too much advance to me, what is your opinion?

Do you mind sharing your experience with us (maybe the other guys know you but I haven't been here long enough). Thanks in advance for your opinions on this problem.


BTW - the cam is far too bumpy for my taste and I may swap to a more mild cam during winter projects to improve driveability.

Those arent pro form rockers are they?The cheap cast aluminum roller rockers make more noise that regular rockers.(They look like nice rockers.) 1 more thing ,what kind of lifters,there not the rhodes lifters are they?:LOL: If u go thru and check what Denny said then u should find the problem,just offering more things to look at!!!!

Denny, thanks very much for your help. I am a bit confused about what to do now.

In your earlier post you said about the lower oil pressure possibility:
"BUT, with that pressure, the noise is normal, especially with an increase in lift. "

Then in this last one you said:
"A clicking or tapping noise almost always is an indication of a malfunctioning hydraulic lifter. Some noise is normal when the engine is cold, but this should disappear as the engine warms up. Some of the causes of hydraulic lifter noise can be dirty oil, inadequate oil pressure or improper oil weight, water in the oil, too low or too high oil level, or incorrect initial adjustment. "

So I REALLY appreciate the advice, but I'm still not clear if the noise is normal for my engine and oil pressure, or if I have more work to do to find the bad lifter(s). I have done all I can to identify if this is one cylinder (so far). It does not sound like one, but I can't be sure. What do you suggest is my next step, to remove the intake, and inspect each lifter? If I were to remove each lifter from the engine, how do I determine if they are bad?

I've included pictures of the lifters and pushrods closeup when I replaced the head gaskets. They are Lunati lifters as can be found on this page:

http://www.holley.com/71817.asp

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...33/lifter2.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...33/lifter1.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...33/pushrod.jpg

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/pnut333/lifter1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/pnut333/lifter2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/pnut333/pushrod.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>


Thanks in advance, keep it coming.

76gmc1500:

I did adjust the timing forward and back, and this noise did not change. Well, the whole engine ran a bit different of course, but this specific noise did not change from the timing. Thanks for the idea!

I just spoke with Lunati about these lifters (called their tech line), and he had this to say:

1) Roller rockers make more noise than fulcrum rockers (I have rollers)
2) aluminum body rockers make much more noise than steel (i have aluminum)
3) cast aluminum valve covers cause any valvetrain noise to sound louder (I have cast alum valve covers).

His opinion is that the noise was normal (he did not listen to the video), and nothing needs to be done. He also re-iterated that 1/2 turn max preload on these lifters is good, more is dangerous with the high lift cam.


hmmm, maybe I'll just run it and see how it goes..............

I dont know if you all have it figured out but, i had the same problem. My problem was my paper header gasket broke and was leaking past the header, creating a ticking noise. I got a better gasket (not paper) and kept them tight and problem solved. Dont know if it will help but thought i would mention it.................

just look at a 351 ford had that sound like a old typewriter but had cast alum covers and alum rollers rockers .so i told them that i would say the rocker would have to go if the customer did not like the sound .yes roller rockers make noise and they wanted to try one full turn and 1/2 but 1/2 is all you need on a hyd cam

that is lifter noise and if you can adj. those valves then thats what you need to do. those rockers arms are way to loose. JMO

Chevyfan1980, thanks for th input about the exhaust leak. I have been told and exhaust leak is more of a popping noise than a ticking noise.....however if that is all it was, I'd be pretty happy. I'm not too concerned about minor exhaust leaks since I am pretty much driving a tent (I don't often put the top on my Jeep).

Thanks again for all the advice. I am going to run them as is for a while and see how it goes. If you don't hear back from me, no problems occurred.

Exhaust leaks tick allright. They will pop like a backfire during deceleration if bad enough, but the minor ones tick.

I ran into the same thing wth the bucket, top end went back up all new with alum heads/roller rockers/tall cast valve covers and the new found ticking, ( oil press 35 idle / 45-50 at cruise ) after a dozen valve adjusts and playing with the timing I desided that this combination did little if any to dampen valve train noise, but 6k miles with LOTS of time at WOT she still sounds the same and runs great. :toocool:

I had bought some rhode lifters that would bleed off at low rpm's to hide the rumble of the big cam I had in that engine. But as soon as the rpm's went up the ticing would stop. Who measured the push rods to make sure that they are the right length? I had that problem before, push rods were to short.

~ Vegas ~