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I've got bare block 350 4 b.m .030 over going in 1980 monza. trans 350 turbo, rear end 10 bolt posi 3.73 or 4.11. build an engine that will just shit and get with nos adjustable h.p boost 150max. bare cast heads.
Build me a monster motor for 2000.00 dollars.
You should spend half of that money on heads. Don't worry about the NOS so you can save money using hypereutectic pistons and maybe a cast crank. Aim for 9.5-10:1 compression and put in a cam with an advertized duration in the high 270 degree to 280 degree range. Aim for a redline less than 6500 to keep the budget down.
How fast can you spin a cast crank?
I you can get any tracation you will blow the rear end out very quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by crmonzav8
I you really want a monster engine you will have to spend a lot more than $2,000.
The best built 350 4 bolt main, oil pan to carb?Quote:
Originally Posted by crmonzav8
Two Thousand Dollars?????
All 2 grand will get you is a decent rebuild on that 350. It won't even scratch the surface of what your title aludes too...
Buy a crate motor and stuff it in there. More then enough power for the Monza and it WILL sh!t & git...
Mark
Good call.Quote:
Originally Posted by astroracer
383 kit ,vortec heads ,rpm air gap and extreme energy cam and call it done.
Destroke it ,to loose bottom end, spend money on crank ,rods and pistons, valve gear,spin it to the moon.There are about 400 diferent combos,you need to know what you want out of this deal?street racin ,drag racin,road course,tire melter,high speed pull?:whacked:
This may cost a little bit more than $2,000 or a lot more.Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnlee28
Wow, I havent put together an engine for $2000 (or less) for
over 15 years!!!......
A guy can pretty easily build a good running motor for under 2000 dollars. Vizard shows you how to build a GOOD DEPENDABLE motor for under 500 dollars. It's possible to build a strong motor for under 2 grand but a MONSTER is a different story. I learned that the hard way. I thought, "$2500 is a good budget to build a strong street motor out of." Now, 6 months and nearly $3000 dollars later, I have another $1000 to spend in top end parts (head machining, carburator, intake, headers, ect) and I've got about $1000 to spend on the rearend to set it up /w a 4.11 and posi.
My point is: building a strong motor will reflect on the rest of your car. By that I mean, a ground thundering engine will require a "bulletproof" tranny and rearend if you ever actually plant your back tires. Would be a shame to go for your first launch with a brand new motor and lose because you spit the axle out the side of your car.
You might want to check the date on you Vizard book.L.O.L.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper111
no sir, there's a combination in Vizards "How to build max performance chevy small blocks on a budget" that runs just under $500 dollars. Sure, it's low HP low compression, but it's dependable and makes good enough vacuum. NOTICE THAT I SAID GOOD, DEPENDABLE. NOT GOOD AND POWERFUL. Anyway, i'm not gonna argue because this post is about high performance 350, not everyday driver 350. there's a huge price difference. Factory spec rebuilt = rings, bearings, gaskets and minimal machining. That's not that hard to do under $500. I may be slightly off on the price figure, its been months since i've read the book and i'm currently at work. but 500 seems about right for what the motor offered.
So why did you make this ludicrous post??? Are you serious??? That's not that hard to do under $500 ??? When was the last time you bought parts or had any machine work done???Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper111
thanks guys for all the replies.i know theres really no right answer, but all of you made valid points. many ways to go just picking right way to go about it.
thank you ,
crmonzav8.
there's no reason for name calling here. My point was that with a monster engine comes monster prices in other places. The motor can be built for under $2000, will it have 500 hp? not likely but $2000 dollars is a reasonable budget for a good street engine. The part that won't be covered is the extra expenses from upgrading the rearend/suspension/tranny/torque converter/ect. Again, there's no reason to get nasty about it. Also, remember that pricing has a lot to do with the extent of what your doing/the area in which you live/ect. I've heard stories from the northern states that talk about 3 and 4 hundred dollars for a SBC 350, and upwards of $1000 for a SBC 400. Here a SBC 4 bolt 350 goes for 50-100 and a 400 will bring about 150-200. So its not fair to jump down my throat because things come cheaper to me because i live in a hick state where there are lots of these motors floating around from wrecked pickups from the 80's and older cars ect. Thanks, and i didn't mean to piss anyone off with my post. And to answer your question about when was the last time that i bought parts and machine work. I actually just got done paying for parts/machine work. For a FULL RACE SBC 400 i'm in @ $4000 dollars /w torque converter and retro-fit roller valve train. (This included fully prepped block, cast steel crank, forged rods, forged pistons, valve job on my heads,
:HMMM: :HMMM:
You know ???? After reading through all these posts, there is not one mention of labour cost for assembling the short or long block. This alone has a major way of increasing engine costs drastically.
I have read Vizards book, my conclusion is : that it has a lot of commonnsense approaches to engine assembling. And the author assumes that you will be doing the assembly yourself. And he rightly points out that a major horsepower earner is correct machining and clearances of the parts and how they fit together... And also how you the builder put them together.
We should all know by now that a good H.P. engine is parts that are picked that work together as a whole.
BUT I WILL PERSONALLY GUARANTEE, That the horsepower stakes are won or lost in correct parts assembly and how you did it.
**) A good example is valve train geometry, measure it get it right and the engine gains horsepower. If you did not even bother to try or gave up onthe measuring, then the motor is down on power and up on wear. :CRY:
That engine is a steal at $1899.99. Check it out.
:eek: Well Denny, they just blew the competition out of the water. :D :D
You would have to be dumb to turn them down, You still have to supply an intake but, what the heck at that price. Even Tech would be happy with specs and piston to head clearances.
:D 450 HP for $1899 + intake + carb + extras, say another $800. Say $2600 in round figures, we could not even pick up a cheap block and build it for that. This is cheap HP and awnsers the question.
:D Just contacted them, I want to see what makes these motors tick and what the specs are.;)
Name calling??Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper111
Who's calling names??
Who's jumping down your throat??
Wow!!! for drama.
You did'nt piss me off you just made a crazy post.
You might want to read my post again.
First you talk about $500 and now you are under $2,000.
Then you talk about buying engines out of wrecked pickups from the 80's and older etc..
If you just got done spending $4,000 you if anybody should know what an engine costs to build.
There are young kids on here that might believe your post about the $500 engine.
$500 will pay for good machine work.
Your only hope to stay in that budget is swap meet parts, ebay parts, and get a job at a machine shop.
ok i'm gonna settle this once and for all and prove that i'm not full of shit when i talk about building an engine for what i said. In Vizard's "How to Build Max Performance Chevy Small Blocks on a Budget" on Page 147 David Vizard shows what he calls "Build NO. 1"
His core was a 350 out of a WRECKED (like i said earlier) car that he picked up for $175 dollars. The engine comes out at 10:1 CR making just above 300 horses and just about 350 FT LBS. at 4500 RPMS. The motor made 800 pulls /w a max out of 5,500 RPM per pull. TOTAL BUDGET (pay attention here!) $644 dollars TURNKEY. Maybe its not a "ground pounder" or a "giant killer" but for the car lover that just wants a good steady motor to go spin his wheels with, its a good start. IMO the guy that says the EVERYTHING has to be new in EVERY engine either a) doesn't know wtf he is talking about or b) has too much money. Some parts that have minimal wear can be reused to save money. The factory crank and rods are just 2 of the parts.
Let's break it down: $337 dollars in parts and $307 dollars in labor.
So those that doubted me that an engine CAN BE BUILT for under $1000 dollars can please think next time before shunning the little guy. Maybe the guy that decides to go on a budget build will have to work a little harder to stay in that budget. Sometimes that means taking a less expensive, while still cost effective route.
BTW for further info the Book is again "How to Build Max Performance Chevy Small Blocks on a Budget" by David Vizard.
As was said earlier, Vizard writes these books to show you how to do as much of the engine build as possible. This includes honing, filing, measuring, ect.
In effect, if you still think I'm crazy, then you can call a lot more than just me crazy because I can 100% guarantee that I'm not the only one that has read Vizard's book. There's some good stuff in there if you can take the time to really read it and understand what he's talking about.
:) Just checked the deal out with them, they are doing these engines at this price for this month only, because thay can get the parts at discounted prices from thier suppliers, so get em while they're hot :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
Hopper111
In effect, if you still think I'm crazy, then you can call a lot more than just me crazy because I can 100% guarantee that I'm not the only one that has read Vizard's book. There's some good stuff in there if you can take the time to really read it and understand what he's talking about.[/QUOTE]
;) I have read his book, he has a lot of good ideas in there, I use some of them, especially about partially filling the blocks to strenghten them up. I have used both on the street and the track, amazingly the engines run slightly cooler. As for the lightening side, I have not lightened the cranks as he does, but I have come to understand the theory and reasoning behind it, and I have had skelleton flywheels cut on a plasma cutter to lighten them, It makes the car so much more responsive on the track. Especially short oval tracks.
I had my crank lightened for my current motor. Its 377 CUI (400 block /w scat 3.5" stroke crank /w 400 main journals) I haven't gotten to pop it off yet but it really does cut down on reciprocating weight and supposedly you can get a little more RPM out of the motor.
Look dude, I don't think anyone is calling you crazy. In fact, I have never spent over about $850 building a motor, to include a couple 350s. but they were just daily drivers.
To remind you of how you started the thread:
Build me a monster motor for 2000.00 dollars.
AND.. I say by my earlier post. If you shop swap meets, snipe bids on ebay, and get a job at a machine shop then you can do it. Otherwise, you ain't gonna have no monster.
I'm assuming it doesn't need boring. It's already at .030" so bead hone it lightly. Just enough to break the glaze I'm also assuming you can assemble it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crmonzav8
Here's a start.
383 Kit
Heads
From this point, it's all down hill. By the time you have this together, save a little money to finish it. Round it out with a Comp XE 284 hydraulic cam, Ebay an intake and carb. It may take a little while to locate and aquire the rest of the parts but the biggest cost will be behind you.
Choose the CR by the plans on this motor.
AGAIN, I WILL ASK WHAT YEAR IS THE FIRST COPYRIGHT ON THAT BOOK??IS IT 1978???I HAVE THE SAME BOOK AND I GOT MINE WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND THAT WAS 1984.BUY A NEW BOOK THAT HAS A 2006 COPYRIGHT.L.O.L. GET REAL!!! LIKE I SAID BEFORE 500$ WILL PAY FOR YOU MACHINE WORK.A GOOD VALVE JOD IS $125,POLISH THE CRANK IS $50 AND THAT IS THAT IT HAS BEEN MAGGED ADD ANOTHER $50 FOR THE HOT TANK AND MAG.I THINK I WILL STOP THERE IF YOU HAVE NOT GOT THE POINT YOU NEVER WILL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper111
nah, i'll stop here. If you still don't know my point, I'll put it out there in as simple terms as i possibly can.
Ready? Pay attention now. It's gonna hit you like a brick... Get ready...
LOTS OF MONEY CAN BE SAVED BY DOING AS MUCH WORK AS YOU CAN BY YOURSELF.
Polish a crank? 50 bucks? now that calls for your "L.O.L". Try a 3 dollar box of fine grit metal sand paper from o'reilly auto parts and 20 minutes.
Anyway your claim about $125 dollar valve job amuses me as well. It amuses me because i like to "L.O.L" at you people that live in states where things are actually expensive. Which brings me to my second point.. Ready? Don't want you to miss it again... Here goes...
PRICE OF ITEMS ALSO DEPENDS ON WHAT PART OF THE COUNTRY YOU LIVE IN.
I just had a 3 angle valve job done on my cylinder heads and it cost me $60 dollars. I had my block bored and decked. That cost me $165. Broken down: $100 for the deck and $65 for the bore and hone. I had that same block dipped for $35. However, I know you will point this at me saying "SEE!!! MACHINE WORK IS EXPENSIVE!" Here's my comeback before you even say it: This machine work is being done to a FULL RACE engine. On a lesser performance engine such as a daily driver or a friday night special, boring/decking/dipping isn't always necessary. A good head gasket, a 25 dollar honing tool and some industrial solvent will do the same thing.
Look, I'm not going to admit that I'm wrong simply because I'm not. You're not going to admit that your wrong for your reasons. So let's just call it square and move on.
Oh, you can stop clinging to your weak arguement of "When was your copy published?" because I bought mine not quite a year ago. It was published in 1999. Just in case you want to know more: I paid $17.46 for it at a Hastings store in my town. Also, just because a book was copywritten in 1978 doesn't mean that it hasn't been updated. Books of this nature are often times updated and republished.
You can purchase your copy at:
http://www.allbookstores.com/book/18..._A_Budget.html
Now move on and pick on someone else. Your not gonna get over on me. I've stepped up and answered every doubt that you have thrown at me. Please just get over it.
On a side note, I know that I'm putting myself off as a smart ass. But thats because I'm tired, like you, of argueing with someone that won't listen.
Here's another way to prove my point. You can go buy a non running motor from any salvage yard in the country for approximately 100 dollars (give or take a few) Call up City Motor Supply Inc. out of Texas.
For $825 and that motor that you just paid 100 dollars for, they'll give you a complete motor minus intake and carb. So you can get off your "2000 dollars isn't enough" crock of something or rather and go find another post to argue about. (and no, this city motor supply catalog wasn't published in 1978 like your broken down copy of Vizard's book) (BTW City Motor Supply has been in business since 1943)
Or
You can go buy that same engine, strip all the pans and covers off, the cylinder heads off, and the intake off and send the short block to city motor supply and for $495 dollars and your short block, they'll send you their "CMS Race Engine" shortblock. SOOOO 495 + 100 dollars from the motor + a 100 or so in head prepping, and there you go. Turn key motor for 695 dollars. Again please go find something else to argue about. Motors aren't that hard to build for a lesser amount of money. The people that say it can't be done are the ones that buy everything brand new every time even if their used parts are still in perfect working order.
City Motor Supply sells a "70-79 5.7L 4 bolt main Long block" for "$560 dollars."
City Motor supply also offers a 383 stroker kit for $899 dollars the includes Cast steel crank, forged pistons, forged race ready rods, moly rings, and main/rod bearings. Buy that kit, put a little money into the block (which the OP says he already has) and go to town. LOOK FOR A DEAL, DON'T JUST BUY IT NEW BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE DOES.
I want to apologize to the rest of the forum members for my rant and our arguement. But I'm trying to prove a point because like Erik said, there are kids on here and they need to know the truth. Many kids shy away from the hot rod hobby because they can't afford those high dollar engines and the trend nowadays is to buy everything new and assemble it. These kids can't afford that and need someone to show and tell them how to do some things themselves to save some money.