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anybody here gettin the front wheels of the ground with your small blocks. i asked a similar question in the big block post. i'm still debating whether to go with a big or small block. i'm probably gonna end up with whatever i can get my hands on for a good price.
i know what your saying. i just want to be able to. i don't wanna pull wheelies at every stop light or stop sign. i just wanna know i can for myself and every once and a while in a safe surrounding, punch it!
what do you have your 383 in?
do you think that "lil 383 stroker" ya got would pull the wheels in that nova of his????? thats about double the weight of your t -bucket. Is that 1700 with you in it? :D
Here's a pic of a 'lil' 289 Stude engine bored .060" with a couple of turbo's... And this car has been running at the strip since the early sixties.... That boys, was before big blocks <g>..
Quite a car, quite a guy (Ted Harbit, that is)...
For more info on this car, go to:
http://www.stude.com/Ted/
Jeff:toocool:
just curious, would my 35 chevy coupe's front lift a little from running about 425-450 HP?
Another T here, yeah the wheelie bars are NOT for show, guess mine needs a diet :LOL: 1850lbs with me in it, sbc powered, hard for them BBC T's to get it up, uhh thats the front end, uhh front wheels :LOL: but the watts is right, can make some adjustments and get no air but LOTS of smoke, I prefer the air :toocool:
Actually, yes:)
The Stude v8 was intro'd in '53ish as a 223 and then was increased to 259, and then again to 289... The 289 was available in 1957 and the 259/289 were both available until late 1964 and into early 1965.
Not that that matters:p
Jeff:toocool:
Oh, Before these Big Block's were around too JEFF??? :)
Big Block Chevy 348-409-427 HEAD Numbers:
3732791.....348............58-60
3758379.....348/409.......59-61...250/300 hp
3759256.....348............58
3759332.....348............58-60
3767738.....348............59-60...250 hp
3837731.....427............63.."Z11" (4.312" bore x 3.65" stroke)
3852583.....409............61-65...HiPerf, 2.19"/1.72" valves
Big Block Chevy 348-409-427 BLOCK numbers:
3732755.....348/409...59-61
3732811.....348.........58
3751872.....348.........58
3755011.....348.........59-61
3771705.....348/409...59-61
3782012.....348.........58-61
3815707.....348.........58-61
3830814.....427.........63......"Z11" (4.312" bore x 3.65" stroke)
3860387.....348.........58 [/B][/QUOTE]
I can get my cougars wheels up if I try hard, I can get 1 tire to clear slightly on street tires, and when I run the ET Streets I can get them both up. Of course we're only talking a matter of inches, and I'm not running a chevy, so I shouldn't even be here.
Now If I were to try a nitrous assisted launch on a well prepped track...
I'd probably just break something important.
Lv2spd
Is it possible for the wheel to spin inside the tire? My friend says his dad's old T he use to have would do that.
Thats odd, not that I think about it. I had a 455 in a 72 running somewhere around 600, and I never lifted the front end off the ground, once! same with my 403, and every 307, vin 9 and Y. This is really strange. My next goal, Oldsmobile hits air! Any ideas?
As far as I understand the car should be as lightweight as possible, and you need excellent traction. The body of the car has to be rigid so it doesn't absorb engine torque by twisting (this means you will need subframe connectors in a unibody car)
Heavy items such as the battery (or concrete spare tire ;-) ) should be moved rearwards for better weight transfer during launch. (this also means engine set back in chassis if possible)
Drag shocks /springs, slicks and traction bars will help to get traction and weight transfer.
Maybe some of you engineers could do a few calculations how much torque is required for a given car weight assumed you have no body flex and good traction...
What Streets said about the horsepower not mattering is pretty much true, I had a friend that I would beat in the 1/4 mile everytime but, he would always pull wheelies. One time I asked him why he could pull wheelies so easily and I couldn't but, I was still beating him. He was driving a Chevy Vega, and I believe he had a 305 in it. He had told me that he had removed his front sway bar, put softer springs in the rear with soft bushings, then changed the pitch on the nose of his differential, so that the drive line and the yokes would be straight in line when the car was torque up by the engine. And he ran a soft or sticky rear tires.Now, this is what he told me he did. I only ever had two cars that pulled the front end up and the one I bought like that. I bought it from a guy in the ARMY, he had broken the drivers side spindle, he didn't know anything about cars so he called a shop, who told him it would cost $500.00 to fix. So he sold me that thing for $200.00. I bought a used spindle for $30.00 and was driving it that night. This was a '69 GMC Handyvan it had a 307 in it with a three on the tree tranny. The driveline was only about 2 1/2 feet long. The engine set right inbetween the seats, I gave it to my brother who drove it a couple of years then sold it.
Vegas
I couldn't stop thinking about this so I did a few calculations on my own.
Assumed the rear axle was some kind of bolted to the ground and there was no torque lost due to chassis flex then the rear wheel torque needed to lift the car would have to be bigger then the momentum caused by the weight of the car and the distance from the center of gravity to the rear axle:
Te=m x d
Te is engine torque required, d is distance from rear axle to center of gravity measured in foot and m is the mass of the car in lbs
This would mean a 2000lbs Shelby Cobra with a 90" wheelbase and a 50/50 weight distribution (center of gravity in the middle of the car between the front and rear axle) would need 7620 ft lbs rear axle torque to lift the car...:confused: o.k. this still needs to be divided by the 1st gear ratio multiplied with the rear end gear ratio.
With 2.32 first gear and 3.50 rear gears this is 938 ft lbs.
Pretty much, but in fact this much torque is not required. First there are some things I didn't consider (i. e. vertical center of gravity, the weight behind the rear axle causes a momentum in the opposite direction that will help rising the front etc), and second this is more of a dynamic process than of a static.
So mass inertia is also a big factor and the required torque diminishes as the front of the car lifts because the center of gravity is moved rearwards. That's what all the weight transfer stuff during launch is about.
The calculated amount of torque needs to be divided by a factor that depends on the ability of the suspension to transfer the weight of the car to the back, traction, chassis and suspension flex and many other things I forgot.
I think you could figure out some kind of formula by doing some tests with several cars that are able to pull the front wheels, but it will be a bit complicated.
Overall the car has to be light, rigid, center of gravity moved rearwards as far as possible and as much engine torque as possible (although a heavier engine will incerase the amount of torque needed cause it's got to be lifted with the car :whacked: ).
And of course you need excellent traction.
Maybe some of you who have or had a car that can do a wheelstand can tell us more about the setup of their cars?
And by the way maybe I screwed up with some of the numbers above as I'm more used to the metric system...
And these are only my considerations anyway and could be all wrong as well :3dSMILE: (So don't absolutely count on it!)
You want to go fast, or look cool?
Not a smartass reply;) , but if your car is going 'up' at launch, it is not going forward....
If wheelies are what you are after, I'd set the car up to launch straight and true 'without' yanking the wheels up (and then put an entire weight lifting weight set in the trunk):whacked:
You're sure to get beat by someone when you're pullin wheelies:eek:
Then you're sure to get beaten again when you're in your shop fixin' front end parts and not out racing:mad:
Just an opinion (opinions are like a$$holes...everyone has one and all you get out of them is s#!t);)
Jeff:toocool:
Quote:
Originally posted by Streets
Probably NOT... HP doesn't have a thing to do with wheelies at all.. :LOL: It's all weight transfer, engine set-back, and traction orientated... (And a "concrete spare tire") hehehe
I have to agree with deep. Used to do some drag racing, wheels up usually meant time to adjust the 4 bar, shocks, etc. I guess all I ever saw wheelstands do is kill 60 foot times and break parts. Much better to get the hook up to propel you forward, not upward.
GMC VAN
Jeff, what you're saying is not just an opinion, it's a fact. The energy that lifts the car is wasted energy that could have accelerated the car. Pullin wheelies is definitely all show and no go, and it's an easy way to break parts.
But this thread was started by 72Nova who wants to know how to lift the front wheels. So going fast is not the primary concern in this case ;)
I found a little more information on the rear suspension geometry: to pull the front wheels the instantaneous center has to be as close to the front of the car as possible. This acts as a lever against the weight of the car.
The instantaneous center is defined as the intersection of lines drawn through the trailing arm pickup points on the axle housing and the frame when viewed from the side. Small changes in the distance and height of that intersection have dramatic effects on how hard the tires plant and how much lift is experienced by the front end.
So when you got a four link rear suspension you could fabricate some brackets to decrease the angle between the trailing arms and your car should do a wheelstand even with a small block.
But as Jeff and Dave stated this will not make your car go faster and playing around with the suspension geometry can make your car unsafe to drive so this is not recommended!!!!
This is what mine looked like:
Well, I was not trying to stand. a 1 inch lift would have made me happy. I just found it odd that both a 403 and a 455 diddnt lift at all. Thanks for the info.
yeah poppin a wheelie is cool but wouldnt it be cooler to just flat out blow somebody off the line when you pull up to a stop light? It's fun to roast the tires a little too! :-D
Ever seen an Elderodo pull wheelies?http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...7450#post27450
If you wants wheelie, all u gots to do is take an old chevy van, mount the motor in the back, run the radiator to the front with loong, loooong radiator hoses and a extra pump, weld the rear suspension solid and throw bricks behind the door panels in the rear doors. floor it and hold on. best done with high torq motor.
I forgot to mention that you had to hook a V drive up to the driveshaft because the motor will be behind the rear axle.