Cooling issue in my '35 Ford

I am having a problem trying to keep things cool at idle. I have a 1935 Ford with a 350, 290 hp crate engine. It is equipped with a Walker Cobra radiator, a 16" puller fan and a 12" pusher, and Vintage heat & AC. Has a 180 high capacity t-stat and premium water pump. I have absolutely no room for a shroud. I am running Mobile 1 synthetic oil. Just wondering if an oil cooler would help. I have run it with and without the t-stat and it still heats up (230) degrees on a hot day if I get stuck in traffic. I may have room for another small pusher fan in front of the puller if you think it would help. As always, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sometimes cars of that time period have engine compartments that contribute to overheating. Their design traps hot air so that no matter how hard the fans are blowing the hot air has no where to escape. When you put a larger V8 in there and toss ac into the mix, it just gets worse.

Does the car cool off when you get it moving again? If so, what does it normally run at? Also, what brand fans are you running?

Don

Is it possible also that the Pusher fan is blocking the radiator when used in conjunction with a puller fan on the other side of the radiator. It could be blocking open area and not allowing the puller to do its job. Just a thought. Don Jr.

Spal fans are about as good as they get for electric fans and pullers work much more effectively that pushers. If you don't have a Spal, you might want to look into one of their straight bladed units which pull the most air. Have you looked into any of the products you can add to your radiator fluid to bring down the temperature? Are you hood side solid or vented? If they are solid, you might want to look at getting some that are vented if nothing else works.

While I agree most heartily with Don Jr's comment about front mounted fans frequently contributing to overheating by blocking more air flow than they contribute (and don't disagree with the other thoughts expressed), since you said the condition only exists at idle that likely isn't the issue this time. I would suggest you may have an ignition timing problem. Start with the "simple" stuff first before throwing more hardware at it.

Thanks for the replies. It does cool off when moving and stays at 180. Puller is a Thinline curved blade and is at the very top due to space restrictions. Pusher is a straight blade and is mounted at the bottom of the condenser. Don't know the brand name. I added Be Cool fluid and it didn't help. Has a factory hood and the sides are vented. Still wondering if an oil cooler with a fan might help. Thanks again!

Ok, much more info. Those thinline fans put out almost no air compared to a good SPAL fan. I had to run them on my 27 for years because of clearance issues and once I put a SPAL on it the difference was like night and day. If you test a SPAL while holding in your hands it will try to get away! :)

If your car cools off when you start moving it is because of airflow. You are gettiing enough while moving but the fans are not doing the job when stopped. Maybe if you don't have a short Chevy pump setup that might give you enough room for a good puller. A shroud also helps immensely.

Don

Don & I were typing at the same time, but he was faster. :o :LOL: I know you said you have no room for a shroud, but I believe that may be the problem here. Without a shroud your fans will pull/blow to the path of least resistance, which is not through the radiator core. My "shroud" is a simple piece of aluminum sheet turned down about an inch on the sides with a 16" hole for the fan. That 1" lip provides the mounting surface on the radiator, putting the fan only about 1/2" back from the core. My SPAL puller fan is biased to the bottom of the radiator to help clearance at the pulleys - I rotated it top to bottom when I laid the radiator back more... If it cools down at speed it seems to me you have an air flow problem.

If you can take some photos and post, we can probably get a better feel for the problem. I agree that air flow is you problem. You have a condenser which will block the air flow somewhat, then another fan. Add that to the tight engine compartment, somewhat restrictive hood sides, no shroud, then a 180* T-stat when it should have a 190-195 you have a recipe for over heat. As far as 230* and with a 15pound cap, it will not "boil over" until the water temp is about 250*F.

This Cooling Components fan (Walker owned) is what I'm using in conjunction with my Walker radiator. When it kicks on, it creates a wind!! They have a thinner version now.

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. I am going to try a spal straight blade fan and see if that will keep it cool. I talked to a representative at Evans Cooling and he told me if I installed an aluminum radiator my problems would "go away". May try that if the spal doesn't work. Thanks again!

I'm sure you will be getting conflicting opinions on the aluminum vs brass/copper radiator debate. Some people think copper is better some think aluminum is better. I am on the aluminum team myself, but am no cooling expert. However, I do ask a lot of questions and have used a couple of aluminum ones with good success.

Just for a second quote you might call PRC and see how much they want for a radiator for your car. I had one in my 23 and it was difficult to get it above 170, even with a 190 thermostat. You could hold the bottom hose and it was only warm, so the radiator was super efficient. Just a suggestion.
www.prchotrod.com

Don

I'm no expert but do you have a shroud behind your rad so that you are getting all the air from the puller thru the rad?

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Originally Posted by MelloYello

I'm no expert but do you have a shroud behind your rad so that you are getting all the air from the puller thru the rad?

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Mello, if you look at post #1 http://www.clubhotrod.com/chevy-smal...tml#post426362 he says he has zero room for a shroud, and is not running one. It's been suggested several times as being "necessary".

sorry Roger the old eyes don't work sometimes and I should have made mention of "Has this been mentioned here" - - - I'll try and read more the next time, maybe? LOL

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Originally Posted by MelloYello

sorry Roger the old eyes don't work sometimes and I should have made mention of "Has this been mentioned here" - - - I'll try and read more the next time, maybe? LOL

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Hey, I know what you mean about the eyes, and there's no problem here with you asking!! I knew because I had earlier mentioned that having a fan shroud of some type is Cooling 101. Without it you'll likely flunk the class.

Shroud plus put in a 192 t-stat, that will give the water more radiator time to cool down.

Thanks, will try the t-stat first, no room for a shroud.

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Originally Posted by lbroknwing

Thanks, will try the t-stat first, no room for a shroud.

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Can you post a couple of pictures of your installation so we can see what you're dealing with here?

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Originally Posted by lbroknwing

Thanks, will try the t-stat first, no room for a shroud.

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Pics would be great - - - you can modify or make your own shroud, if necessary.

with over 400 HP it never overheated I'm Thinking like Bob. The rad. is 4 core and the same size as the stock opening. using a belt driven flex fan

Pictures sure would help. Also some measurement of the distance from the back face of the radiator to the nearest components (other than the fan).

When you say that it gets hot at idle, are you in gear (assuming an automatic)? Does the automatic tranny have a cooler in the radiator? Is the Walker radiator intended for the 350 installation or is it a modified flathead radiator? North Carolina doesnt get that hot. What brand of puller fan are you using? What brand of "premium" water pump"

I dont think that an oil cooler will help much, if any. What you need is air flow over the entire radiator surface. Without a shroud, the fan pulls air thru a donut shaped section of the radiator surface.....making your effective radiator very small. When you get up to speed, the air pressure on the front of the grille/radiator forces air thru the entire radiator....thus it cools with an entire radiator but not with a donut radiator. Shrouds are pretty easy to fabricate that can clear most accessories on the front of the motor. There cannot be air leaks around the shroud where it meets the radiator. The clearance from the tips of the blades should be minimized but allow the engine movement. The fan tips should be just inside the shroud. Belt driven fans pull more air but also take up more room. Dont be excited about CFM ratings too much.....the ratings are a sales tool.....mine is bigger than yours type stuff. Ratings are influenced by pressure and temperature so they can cheat pretty easily. I encourage you to take a fresh look at a shroud.....there must be a way to get one into the open area.

On my vehicle, I have a problem with the transmission oil temp at slow speeds...so I have tried oil coolers with fans, finned coolers, multiple coolers, etc to no avail.

mike in tucson where it is warmer a tad than it is in North Carolina

If you have room for a fan then you should have room for a shroud. Without a shroud you are going to continue to fight this problem. As previously stated the air needs to be pulled through the radiator not around it. You can fab this up your self to suit your dimensional requirements. I would do this before I spent any more on radiators or fans or oil coolers. Fix the real problem first.

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Originally Posted by robot

What brand of "premium" water pump"

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Do not overlook this suggestion. It was my cure for an exact operating symtom like yours. My pump was a generic brand polished aluminum water pump. It would over heat anytime the car slowed down like comming off the freeway. Turned out the impeller was spaced a long distance from the pump body causing almost no coolant flow at idle and slow speeds. A Flow Cooler brand pump cured all of my problems. My '32 has solid hood sides, and no louvers in the solid hood top. I never turn the fan on, unless it's an extended stop light or a long line into an event. It runs at 180 all day.

Sorry guys I read this as 53 ford must have been a senior moment

Oh yeah - water pumps!! After a less then stellar experience on a built 351W, decided I needed something better for this engine/car then the NAPA used previously so I'm using a Stewart's water pump. Not cheap, but my engine has never run hot with a Stage 1 : Stewart Components - High Performance Automotive Cooling

But - I sure would see about fitting a shroud first. Easy to build if you can't find one commercially available.

How much advance at Idle? Are you you using port or manifold vaccum? Will make a big difference on idle temps.

I am a tech at Evans cooling and I want to explain something abot radiators.......Copper/brass are good radiators and they do dissipate heat very well. Downside is that they are not made of all the same metal. They have brass tanks that are lead soldered to the cors. The lead solder holds heat and dissipates it slower than the copper/brass. Plus copper/brass radiators usually have 3/8" wide tubes inside the radiator, which is not that big compared to aluminum.
Aluminum radiators start at 2 rows of 1" tubes and can be gotten bigger...1.25" or 1.50" wide tubes depending on how much power/heat the motor makes. So 1 row of aluminum tube flows more coolant that 2 rows of copper brass. Plus aluminum rdaiators are all one metal and can dissipate heat more evenly plus they are lighter.
Hope that helps..............we at Evans try to help with any cooling problem just call.

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions. I am going to take some pictures and TRY to post them. If I can't figure it out, I'm sure my 12 year old grandson can!