New engine build advice

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

Glenn hate is a strong word i am a dealer for both scat / eagle and many others eagle cranks very hard to beat scats .this is where it.s comes to over all looks of the crank then getting down to putting a mic on it and checking the stroke ... last can of VHT sucked. i could eat a orange and piss a thicker chevy engine color . but use what you like i just know what works for me :)

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I'm with you Pat - I've never had issues with Eagle or Scat - but know there are those who post here that really dislike them.. You're certainly the one here with the most experience in building great engines. I've used probably 10-12 Eagle and Scat kits over the years with crank/rods/pistons and all were good with the exception of one kit that had incorrect bearing shipped (which were replaced and sent FedEx next day).. I still mic em out - just because that's the way I was taught and one never get's into trouble for extra time spent verifying clearances.

As to the Orange.. Yikes!! That must hurt a bit:LOL::whacked::LOL:

You da' man:)
Glenn

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Originally Posted by rspears

Can you help me understand what you've said in the above, taken directly from your post?

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well seems clear to me? but let me help . I am a dealer that means i buy under cost as i am a engine builder /machine shop . my dealer or crank line is long but i post the short list of the cranks i buy from the ware house . scat. eagle. PEP . howards.callies.crower .lunati . i use both eagle and scat . but scat over all fit finish is very hard to beat .but Pep over all has the edge on both of them for finish and size is as good or better then scat .it is not simple to say I ONLY WILL USE ONE BRAND thats nice but i have had to use a eagle were scat did not make the crank for the rod bearing size i needed or stroke

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

well seems clear to me? but let me help . I am a dealer that means i buy under cost as i am a engine builder /machine shop . my dealer or crank line is long but i post the short list of the cranks i buy from the ware house . scat. eagle. PEP . howards.callies.crower .lunati . i use both eagle and scat . but scat over all fit finish is very hard to beat .but Pep over all has the edge on both of them for finish and size is as good or better then scat .it is not simple to say I ONLY WILL USE ONE BRAND thats nice but i have had to use a eagle were scat did not make the crank for the rod bearing size i needed or stroke

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I understand that you're a dealer so you buy at dealer prices, etc, etc. My question is and was, what does:

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i am a dealer for both scat / eagle and many others eagle cranks very hard to beat scats .

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mean? I can insert a period and get, "I am a dealer for both Scat/Eagle and many others." Then "Eagle cranks very hard to beat." What about the word "Scats"?? Or was it "I am a dealer for both Scat/Eagle and many others, Eagle Cranks. Very hard to beat Scats." Just trying to understand what you typed, not what you were trying to say.

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Originally Posted by rspears

I understand that you're a dealer so you buy at dealer prices, etc, etc. My question is and was, what does:
mean? I can insert a period and get, "I am a dealer for both Scat/Eagle and many others." Then "Eagle cranks very hard to beat." What about the word "Scats"?? Or was it "I am a dealer for both Scat/Eagle and many others, Eagle Cranks. Very hard to beat Scats." Just trying to understand what you typed, not what you were trying to say.

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Scats more then one crank rods (quantity ) like chevys. fords. apples. dogs.cats. Dealer someone who sell many at a volume . Engine Builder. some ones who.s makes orders custom engine parts machines to fit and builds engines that could be base off a stock engine block size and no more .like i do and have done . all i am saying based off what i do .. i used more then one scat crank.checked more them one .sold more then one scat crank . Scat.s your going to have to be better then this Roger to get under my skin . seemed somewhat clear to me?? it is not like someone on here ever posted a dumb thing or something worthless . but you want to be a jack ass so there you are. i will hand in any thing i post on here with you first so to get the ok from you.... before i cross the street Thanks

C'mon Pat, not trying to get under your skin or be a Jackass of any kind. I'm simply trying to understand what you're saying, and depending on how I break things up it says two very different things. Did you intend to say Eagle cranks are hard to beat, or did you intend to say that it's hard to beat Scat?? Simple question, and your answer might help someone make a decision. I'll just quit trying to understand your coded posts from now on.

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Originally Posted by rspears

C'mon Pat, not trying to get under your skin or be a Jackass of any kind. I'm simply trying to understand what you're saying, and depending on how I break things up it says two very different things. Did you intend to say Eagle cranks are hard to beat, or did you intend to say that it's hard to beat Scat?? Simple question, and your answer might help someone make a decision. I'll just quit trying to understand your coded posts from now on.

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yep and i was thinking post # 17 should of cleared that up .on my codes . i deal with both as not to many have 1700. for a usa crank .like i said i like pep .scat . eagle. in this line up and if they make it the way i need it to fit the job then that is how i go about it for my line up now that just cranks rods are not the same line up .. The post in question was much longer as i cut it down . i should of made it more clear ? but when a crank is not in stock or bob weight or rod size and they do not make what you need there is other cranks i have used them to keep customers build on budget track and on time

This is all good information, I am leaning towards the Scat brand at this time since I have heard more good information about them. I am sure that it goes without saying you can always get a bad part and proper installation has everything to do with the final product, (something I relearned the hard way). What about heads? Should I rebuild a set of Vortec heads (they are cast iron) that I have or should I buy special performance heads. Remember this engine will probably be all off road use.

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Originally Posted by aahx2011

This is all good information, I am leaning towards the Scat brand at this time since I have heard more good information about them. I am sure that it goes without saying you can always get a bad part and proper installation has everything to do with the final product, (something I relearned the hard way). What about heads? Should I rebuild a set of Vortec heads (they are cast iron) that I have or should I buy special performance heads. Remember this engine will probably be all off road use.

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i build mostly off road engine .hill/hole. hill climber.s. sand drags. mud pit. stuff . if you go on mccarthyperformance you will see some my engine builds . one of my customers ran the schuss mountain hill climbe 2013 on just 1100+hp of all engine shakedown truck . No blower or Nos .he would of won the deal if he could of stayed on it. there is very good vid of it on dune tv. i been using mostly scat for over 10+ years in my engine shop . i had one 4340 sbc crank that went back poor finish. one 4340 Hbeam 6.385 bbc rod went back for bad threads in one rod . i do not think thats very bad run. om heads has alot to do with budget you have the vortec heads can work very good for the money .some times i have Dart heads were a customer wants to upgrade so i have used heads as well as new if you want to check with me .i do not know were Rolla ? is so shipping may not be a hot deal.PM me if you need any engine parts . happy to help if i can. i can get in to more detal then i will on here any more :)

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Originally Posted by aahx2011

What about heads? Should I rebuild a set of Vortec heads (they are cast iron) that I have or should I buy special performance heads. Remember this engine will probably be all off road use.

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I'm in no way an engine builder, but if it were mine I'd be going with a set of aluminum heads. You can run a couple of tenths more compression just for the heat dissipation compared to iron heads. You'd be OK either way, but if you're investing in a new build go aluminum.

Thank you, rsspears, got any suggestions on brand as I have no experience with aftermarket heads.

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Originally Posted by aahx2011

Thank you, rsspears, got any suggestions on brand as I have no experience with aftermarket heads.

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Well, in my mind it depends on how you're doing the build. If you're using a machine shop to put everything together then I'd let them buy the bare head that they like to use, and then fill it with quality valves, springs and retainers after they're done doing their "magic". If you're looking for out of the box, assembled heads then I'd probably go to Summit and pick out the AFR assembled heads that best fit your needs, and feel confident that they're good to go. I would NOT buy one of the bargain basement fully assembled heads, ProComp comes to mind. I'm running ProComp's, but they were bought bare by my engine guy because of the extra "meat" to support bowl porting, and then stuffed with good valves, springs & retainers.

well-----------actually----------the vortec heads have been some of the best heads GM made and they are sorta being copied by a few different people, especially for spec engine racing series-----they would work fine in an engine build as they have induction hardened exhaust seats (the biggest issue with older presmog, iron heads and unleaded fuels) most work needs to be in the guide area for spring clearance and studs/guide plates--------

hard to beat the V tec heads if you can find a set not cracked if looking at IRON heads PBM/World .DART RHS makes a crack free head like a vtec and old intakes fit and spring pockets are not a big deal like the stock GM stuff you can make as much and more power with a iron head s if weigth is no big deal. cheaper heads may not have thick seats i like to see in all aluminun heads . all heads have the meat to take out for a bowl job were the rubs come in as many times the seats do not line up with the seats hang off the bowl so better heads most time do not have this shift on the bowl to valve seat