ok so how does one resolve that?
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ok so how does one resolve that?
I have had luck in the past by heading to Oriellys and renting there rent a tool program radiator pressure tester for FREE (deposit req) pressurized the radiator with it and then on the highest point on the motor, usually the intake (I do the temp sending unit) just loosen it and wobble it ever so slightly until you get all the air out, If you have a reducer for you sending unit you can get a air pocket there also and get false readings, this prevents this also, but just use enough pressure to push the air as I unscrewed the sending unit just a little to much and lost alot of fluid
got it... also read some suggestions raising the front end...
Can't see the fan in the photo you posted, but suspect it is pulling air from everywhere EXCEPT through the radiator due to the lack of a shroud.
Don't make the rookie mistake of dropping down to a 160 thermostat in the mistaken belief that it will lower operating temps. HINT: When is the last time you saw a motor from the factory with a 160 thermostat?.....Like NEVER. Use a minimum 195 thermostat and bring the rest of the cooling system up to par with good engineering principles. Internal combustion engines need to run at least 195 to achieve the desired efficiency the motor needs for good power and good gas mileage and also to burn off acids in the oil that blow past the rings as a result of the combustion process.
Here is a pretty good tutorial on cooling that I wrote originally and that has been added to by several other hot rodders.....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...cooling_system
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The fan has a shroud and is in a known good cooling system including thermostat. This engine is replacing a 305 that was running good except it had low compression in cylinders 1 & 3 and never had any cooling issues, not even close.
Bummer - Intake manifol leaks that show almost always mean there may be some that don’t and they can lead to some real issues.
Here’s a tried and true method that I have used for a lot of intake manifolds and I cannot remember the last one I had that even thought about a leak.
Use Fel-Pro intake gaskets when installing this intake manifold. I know there are some less expensive ones and those that you can get at NAPA but I like FelPro and have always had really good success with them.
Clean the cylinder head intake flanges and the engine block end surfaces with acetone.
Apply gasket sealer to the head flanges and to the head side of the gaskets, allow to air dry just a bit to let it get a bit tacky, and attach the intake gaskets. I use Gasgacinch.
Throw the cork or rubber end pieces in the trash.
Apply a ¼" bead of Permatex Ultra Black RTV sealer on the ends of the block. Put an extra blob at the four corners where the tab of the gasket meets the end of the block.
Set the intake manifold and loosely install all of the bolts. I like 12 point bolts - Moroso 38400 look good and are nickel plated so they stay rust free for a long time. Key is to use the accompanying washers to get a true torque reading. Put a small dab of Ultra Black on the threads of the eight inner bolts. Trust me here – they can leak and it’s very annoying to have a little oil puddle in these hard to get to places that will smoke and stink.
Torque all the manifold bolts in two steps. Use 10 ft/pounds and start with the four center bolts and work out to the next two in the front and rear until all twelve are at 10 ft/pounds then set your torque wrench at 25 ft/pounds and repeat in the same sequence. Never exceed 25 ft/pounds! It's not good to see the RTV goosh out of the end of the manifold.
One more tip – use a new distributor gasket. Fel-Pro 70194. They cost less than a buck and I buy a dozen or so at a time because it just makes good sense to replace them every time you R&R a distributor. A dab of Vaseline holds it in place on the distributor and then you don’t have to worry about it slipping at the last minute and pinching.
You’re headed in the right direction my friend! Don’t give up now.
Best,
Glenn
Bummer - Intake manifold leaks that show almost always mean there may be some that don’t and they can lead to some real issues. (got it... going to take top end off tonight and fix)
Use Fel-Pro intake gaskets when installing this intake manifold. I know there are some less expensive ones and those that you can get at NAPA but I like FelPro and have always had really good success with them. (yes, I used the expensive felpro gasket, ordered from jegs, reinforced I believe)
Clean the cylinder head intake flanges and the engine block end surfaces with acetone. (did that... very thoroughly but will again)
Apply gasket sealer to the head flanges and to the head side of the gaskets, allow to air dry just a bit to let it get a bit tacky, and attach the intake gaskets. I use Gasgacinch. ( Did not do this..., I'll look for Gasgacinch)
Throw the cork or rubber end pieces in the trash. (roger, did that)
Apply a ¼" bead of Permatex Ultra Black RTV sealer on the ends of the block. Put an extra blob at the four corners where the tab of the gasket meets the end of the block. (used "right stuff" which bit me on the timing cover. I'll switch but did it to the above procedure, maybe a little more than a 1/4" bead...)
Set the intake manifold and loosely install all of the bolts. I like 12 point bolts - Moroso 38400 look good and are nickel plated so they stay rust free for a long time. Key is to use the accompanying washers to get a true torque reading. Put a small dab of Ultra Black on the threads of the eight inner bolts. Trust me here – they can leak and it’s very annoying to have a little oil puddle in these hard to get to places that will smoke and stink. ( did all this including coating bolts)
Torque all the manifold bolts in two steps. Use 10 ft/pounds and start with the four center bolts and work out to the next two in the front and rear until all twelve are at 10 ft/pounds then set your torque wrench at 25 ft/pounds and repeat in the same sequence. Never exceed 25 ft/pounds! It's not good to see the RTV goosh out of the end of the manifold. ( yes torqued in a three setting sequence per the attached, remember its a vortec manifold
Vortec/E-Tec Manifold Bolt Torque Sequence
Torque Bolts to 11 ft/lbs.
Firing Order: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Turn Distributor Counter-Clockwise
to Advance Ignition Timing
One more tip – use a new distributor gasket. Fel-Pro 70194. They cost less than a buck and I buy a dozen or so at a time because it just makes good sense to replace them every time you R&R a distributor. A dab of Vaseline holds it in place on the distributor and then you don’t have to worry about it slipping at the last minute and pinching. (used new fel-pro gasket, leak was through the right stuff end seal or lack of seal)
You’re headed in the right direction my friend! Don’t give up now.
real concern now is the over heating...ugh. Using the water pump from my 305 that worked well... I keep wondering if there is supposed to be some hosing to replace heater hosing , etc.. that I'm not useing since everything is plugged except hose off top of manifold to the radiator and one from the bottom of the radiator to the waterpump, again same configuration as my 305. )
That Gasgacinch looks like aviation sealer... I believe permatex makes a version..?
Roger on the Vortec - old guys sometime space a bit! as such, you still need to torque inside to outside, but as you know keep the value at 11-12 ft/pounds.
Gasgacinch - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...FRRlfgod3g0CGg
Keep at it!
Glenn
old guys...hmmm I'm probably older..lol... how about the permatex copper spray, have you ever used that?
Before copper coat, we used aluminum spray paint.. LOL!
wow.... when I was young we were so poor and so old we used pine tar mixed with wood ash.
I'm going to pine tar my engine...hang it up as decoration so i remember what a fool I was... **)
at this point in time I need a bit of humor :) thanks....
Just a minute there-------I've used corn cobs and mostly Sears & Roebuck cataloques-some Wards and Pennys also-oak tree leaves aren't too bad but corn stalk leaves------UGGGGGGG
Update: I gave up... pulled the engine last night and taking it to a local shop that has full machining capabilities... we will see what is wrong with it and document everything. It will be interesting...
Getting pretty good at removing engines.. less than two hours from car to back of truck..lol..
well.... its been almost two weeks... as shared I pulled the engine and brought it to another local, recommended, that has a pretty extensive shop and does all his own machining. we started the tear down... here's an engine that was supposed to have the lower end done, new pistons, bored 30 over, heads machined and rebuilt... etc etc.... so far we have found 1972 bearings on the crank so definitely not touched, no bent rods so that was good but cam pretty beat up. Major ridges in the cylinders so definitely not bored...probally ball honed to take most of the ridge off. two different heads which i mentioned before.
What we are doing is grinding the crank...
new bearings
new pistons
bored least as possible to clean up the cylinders
swap the one head so I have two of the truck vortec heads with the hardened seats, magna fluxing them also
modified cam so it has a bit of a lope..i forget the specs off hand.
and the basics which goes with it all...
hoping to have it back wed or thursday and we'll try it again :)
oh.... why is that?
The whole “lopey cam” sound is really over rated. Its one thing to hear a lope at idle at the strip where the engine needs a lot of lift, lots of duration and a narrow lobe separation to maximize the air flow through the engine. It will scream to 6,500 RPM and beyond and run for a few seconds but idles like crap – which is okay at the strip. We all love that experience and somehow think it can be had with our street engines that rarely see over 5,000. The lope you hear is the overlap when the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time and the intake charge is going out the exhaust port. Might sound “cool” but to an educated ear it indicates a bad choice of cam and money being wasted.
I’m really not trying to bust your chops, but extreme duration and narrow lobe separation on the street is a recipe for disappointment. 220-230 at 0.050 and 110-112 degrees separation are good numbers to work from for almost all street applications. I tend to take a somewhat conservative approach to cam selection for street drivers. My choice may not be the most powerful – especially above 5,000RPM, but it will offer an engine that will generate decent power and perform well for a long time between idle and 6,000RPM. To the untrained ear that lumpy cam may sound bad ass, but they just don't work well in street drivers.
My two cents,
Glenn
Definitely uneducated in this aspect so appreciate the responses... any and all work for me... going to call the builder and discuss in the am. Thanks...
Because:
1. You cannot intelligently choose a camshaft for a motor until you know the exact static compression ratio, which requires knowing 5 different volumes: cylinder volume, combustion chamber volume, piston deck height volume, piston crown volume and gasket volume.
2. Looking for a lope without the supporting static compression ratio and other speed parts tags you as a poser, a person who wants to pretend he has a hot motor in an otherwise stock street cruiser. Not sure why, but that really whizzes me off. I very much dislike pretentiousness in any form. I got into trouble on another forum for calling one of the posters a poser, but it is what it is. If I get bounced from this forum, I suppose I'll live through it.
3. According to Iskenderian, extending the intake closing point past where it should be for a low compression motor will allow the ascending piston to push air/fuel mixture back out the "closing, but still open" intake valve and up the intake tract to disrupt the metering of the carb. The venturi adds fuel to the air slug on its first trip down into the motor and then adds more fuel when the slug goes backwards past the venturi again, then even more fuel when the slug reverses and is sucked back down into the motor for a final trip. This is why motors with lumpy cams load up and have to have the throttle blipped every few seconds just to keep idling.
I wrote this tutorial. It may help you to understand what cam to use with what static compression ratio to make a solid performer, not a poser motor.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._compatibility
Glenn, there may be some validity to the overlap period causing a lumpy idle, but Isky says that there is insufficient pressure in the cylinder during overlap to cause reversion of the intake slug back up the intake tract. I know nothing, I only write what others tell me if it sounds right according to common sense and my experiences.
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Amen! Add my two cents, Glenn. I cringe whenever I hear "I want that lumpy idle" as the prime selection criterion for cam selection. I went that direction on a GTO back in the day, and it would go like a scalded cat - but was worthless around town and in traffic. The cam in my ZZ-430 clone is 218/228 @0.50 and 112 lobe separation. It idles like a charm at 750 RPM, and flat goes when I hit the loud pedal.
Yup - Tech, Jack and I are all on the same page here and we really want to see (and hear) a great build for you!:):)
A friend of mine recently taught me a simple way to get that great sounding lopey idle on any motor, leave the choke on... And, it loads the motor up just as fast!