What does a Scratch Built 383 cost?

[glennsexton]

We have had several threads on engine building – most notable the one started under “Changing Compression on a Built Motor” where we have bantered around ideas and possible combinations. I had some time today and thought, “what would it cost…?” so I took the latest Summit catalog and put together a list of what I’d buy to build a 383 stroker from scratch.

The block is one we’ve kicked around – prepped and machined by Summit. Assumption is that I can work with Summit to have correct deck height and know the block is squared.

Rotating assembly is internally balanced Eagle.

Top-End Kit is from Trick Flow and included roller cam, completely assembled heads with rocker arms, head bolts, pushrods, timing set, intake manifold, gaskets and bolts. This kit is advertised at 445 horsepower/405 ft/lb torque.

Also assumes that I have incidental stuff, i.e. gasket sealer, AN fittings and hose for fuel pump to carb, assembly lube, press for the piston pins, cam bearing insertion tool, ring compressor, degree wheel, engine stand, etc.

I was surprised with the total - especially when I can buy a fully assembled 430 horsepower 383 with a 30 month, 50,000 mile warranty from Summit for $4,600.

Prices-2015.jpg

[rspears]

Glenn, I think this is an excellent post in that it shows that the volume wholesale discount on all of the pieces & parts when a shop is building a dozen (or more) at a time really makes the decision easier. Also most interesting is that you've included zero for machining, assuming that you can get it machined right from Summit. The price difference running $6013 vs $4600 is a 23.5% discount, but that $4600 includes something for labor so I'd say that it's at least 30% average discount on the parts.
Great Post!!

[glennsexton]

That's kinda my thinking Roger - not saying that I won't continue to build an engine now and again, but this was an eye-opener as far as the cost. I've never built one to sell, rather for my own car(s) or to help friends. I have all the required assembly tools but have relied on machine shops over the years to do all the block prep.

I have noticed that all of the parts (especially cranks and heads) are somehow heavier in my 60's than they were in my 30's and 40's!!

Regards All,
Glenn

[techinspector1]

Glenn, I don't know about you, but I would never buy an assembled motor from anyone else because I've been lied to and shafted one too many times over the course of my life. I have a need to measure and weigh every single part to make certain that it qualifies to be part of the "team" of parts that goes into making a good motor and I won't trust anyone else to do that for me correctly. There are far too many charlatans out there waiting to claim your hard-earned dough in return for doing less than what was agreed on. The simple fact of the matter is that I just don't much like people any more.

As far as the cost of building a motor, I still remember the sign hanging over the counter at the first speed shop I ever went into....."Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" Currently, building a street motor costs about $10 per hp, so a 500 hp motor would cost roughly $5000 and I can show you how to do that, including spending $1000 for machine work, using Pro-Filer heads ($1100 for the pair, ready to bolt on) and a high-rise, dual-plane intake manifold, Scat Pro-Stock crank and rods, Summit or Speed-Pro hyper pistons, etc. Some of the other parts in your list can be sourced as used parts off craigslist or ebay for less money.

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[glennsexton]

Right on Tech - I should have said "really good friends..." having been burned early on when I was in the Air Force and used the base hobby shop as my "engine building shop".

I'll only do one now if people want to be real patient and come and be a part of the process. Last build was for a friend of my son and he was extremely attentive and I had him scrubbing out the block and painting with Glyptal. He also sat and listened as I used various mics and measured everything - some parts twice. At the end of the project he had a very nicely built 400 in a Monte Carlo that started with the tap of the key and purred like a kitten lapping cream and yet could fry the back tires at will.

I've not bought used parts from ebay (I like to see the stuff in person.. I know, kinda funny that way) - but have scored big at swap meets - especially in the intake/carburetor and header department - new in the box for less than fifty cents on the dollar and a recent score of a brand new Mallory Unilite for $50. I stay away from unknown heads as it's jut to hard to tell if they're good and new aluminum heads are reasonable - especially for what they bring to the equation.

Yup - I still love the smell of a new build!
Glenn

[rspears]

I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with a turnkey engine from Summit, but I feel better about the ones offered by Chevrolet Performance and Ford Performance Racing. Might not be justified, but they're the same engines being put into new vehicles, or warranty replacements.

[Matthyj]

I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with a turnkey engine from Summit, but I feel better about the ones offered by Chevrolet Performance and Ford Performance Racing. Might not be justified, but they're the same engines being put into new vehicles, or warranty replacements.

Roger, Funny story, the 1st Ford motor I worked on (I am not brand loyal) was a crate motor 302 360 hp high output Ford crate long block motor when it came out for a 65 mustang, I installed the motor and it showed poor vacuum and indicated a vaccum leak and was rough in the mid range, I replaced gaskets, etc then finally upon Ford Hi Performance tech support (or lack of) recommendations replaced the intake (they where absolutly no help) still no luck the motor it wasn't right, there was no instructions shipped with the motor either nor break in recommendations absolutley 0 paperwork so myself and Ford Hi Performance went round & round as they had me replacing parts & carbs etc, upon reading a ad for this motor in Summitt it stated the firing order in the ad which I found to be sort of strange, I finally called Ford again and asked does this have the normal 302 firing order and they said after checking "No" it was the 351 firing order, I moved the four plug wires and it ran like a champ, only another grand later.......
I hope the machinist building these are better than there tech support as my local machinist actually helps with any problems or questions, would I buy another crate? I like the idea but I haven't yet

[36 sedan]

using Pro-Filer heads ($1100 for the pair, ready to bolt on)

Tech,
Not trying to hijack the thread, have you had good experiences using these heads compared to others, just curious before i invest in a pair.
Thanks

[techinspector1]

Tech,
Not trying to hijack the thread, have you had good experiences using these heads compared to others, just curious before i invest in a pair.
Thanks

If I were building a motor today, I would use Pro-Filer 185's on a 355 or 195's on a 383. They will flow nearly as well as Airflow Research heads (best in the world in my opinion), but cost $500 less for the pair.
http://www.profilerperformance.com/r.../sbc-23-degree

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[36 sedan]

Thank you..

[pat mccarthy]

as one said they would never trust any one that builds engines or would buy one built .i do not know of many bolt on heads .i would trust done. as a dealer for profiller .dart .brodixs.AFR .many others. i spent the time and money knowing what parts are worth the money . on the rotating kit ? i am not going to say any one brand of parts but many so called rotating kits are far from close as one of my warehouse i deal with stop selling them .less you need a paint shaker

[36 sedan]

Pat,
Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for your knowledge, skills and talent. But I'm a little confused, are you saying the pre-assembled profiler heads are not the best choice for my street moderate high performance SBC? Can you recommend a better choice?

[pat mccarthy]

Pat,
Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for your knowledge, skills and talent. But I'm a little confused, are you saying the pre-assembled profiler heads are not the best choice for my street moderate high performance SBC? Can you recommend a better choice?

well that i am saying ??? i buy all heads bare that i build for the shop. i use parts i like and fit them to the heads. many times they may need a tune up . its not like i buy cheap heads many are cnc ported and are 3000+ bare with no hardware over the years i built well over 50 sets of cnc heads just for bbc and many sets of sbc many times they need small clean up work . to poor deck or valve job poor valve guide work . i not going to say whos heads they have been so called bolt on or machine work done set to build .i could write a book on all the things i fixed or sent back .i worked for a head company so i been there done it .if you can not check over the heads then have a machine shop go over them is all i am saying . this was just me posting a heads up on so called bolt on parts... i am not fishing for work ..i am not the only guy that owns a engine machine shop so if you know a guy like me then face to face talk he may tell you what he likes to use .i never said i would not use profillers or AFR s what ever ones you use check them over

[36 sedan]

Thank you Pat, you have educated me again!
Just curious and not trying to put you on the spot, how much of a cost increase over the pre-assembled heads would this add?

[pat mccarthy]

Thank you Pat, you have educated me again!
Just curious and not trying to put you on the spot, how much of a cost increase over the pre-assembled heads would this add?

many time s it.s less as i buy bluk valve .s springs and the valve seal .valve locks .head companys that sell heads do much the same but much more then a shop like me . many times they build head s set to bolt on. they are going to come apart if i doing the engine so it can be two steps back. or more if they use a cheap tin stamped spring locator and lets say a stock heavy retainer on a solid roller cam setup and a lower spring rate then price as built out of the box is no deal.then it is not so hot of a deal on the big stuff there springs like PSI or Pac that i may use . less you buy the preped springs out of the box they all need some work to keep spring from cutting in and making junk out of retainers