What does a Scratch Built 383 cost?

Free shipping is not your friend---------

Balanced assemblies------one manufacture and seller of balanced rotating assemblies has out of balance on EACH end of the crank within reasonable limits-problem is that both ends were in same direction so crank shakes like a train is going past---------

Valve springs off assembled heads--------thats where the culled out springs go-

assembled heads have guide plates, studs, etc-----mostly won't be compatable with your cam specs-------
Crate engine???? how much is the box worth????????
etc, etc, etc

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Free shipping is not your friend. Balanced assemblies-one manufacture and seller of balanced rotating assemblies has out of balance on EACH end of the crank within reasonable limits-problem is that both ends were in same direction so crank shakes like a train is going past- Valve springs off assembled heads--------thats where the culled out springs go- assembled heads have guide plates, studs, etc-----mostly won't be compatable with your cam specs-------
Crate engine???? how much is the box worth????????
etc, etc, etc

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I don't understand your logic. On one hand you decry "crate engines" being a questionable value, but then when someone talks about swapping an engine into their new build you jump on the band wagon of buying a takeout unit from a salvage yard car in order to have a trouble free swap. Doesn't that seem to be just a little bit hypocritical?

I'm the first to admit that the term "crate engine" has spawned far too many fly-by-night "businesses" that sell junk in a box, but I also believe that there are some out there that do quality work, and they stand behind their product with a strong warranty. I've repeatedly said that I consider Chevy Performance and Ford Performance offerings to be equivalent to new car engines, something that MatthyJ has brought to question based on his personal experience, but still my belief. Like everything, a "crate engine" comes in many forms, and it's up to the buyer to determine what works best for himself. Not everyone is chasing 400, 500, 600 or more HP for their ride, and for many people buying a complete engine from a reputable source is simply the best value. Heads? I think Pat's advice is best - visit a machine shop that you respect/trust, and work with them to get the best base core and the best total product.

I'm not going to argue with you about it, just pointing out that it seems to me that your logic doesn't hold water.

Well if you don't want to argue-I won't respond to anything you say about a crate engine--

As for the takeouts------Its a very good way to modernize the drive train of an older ride with lighter weight, efi,effiency, accessory drive system( aftermarket will run $2k or more-sometimes you can probably get a complete takeout with accessories, ecm, wiring harness AND transmission for that amount---

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Well if you don't want to argue-I won't respond to anything you say about a crate engine--

As for the takeouts------Its a very good way to modernize the drive train of an older ride with lighter weight, efi,effiency, accessory drive system( aftermarket will run $2k or more-sometimes you can probably get a complete takeout with accessories, ecm, wiring harness AND transmission for that amount---

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Say what you want, when you want. I'm just saying that I'm not looking for a debate. Your statement on the takeout is exactly my point, and I don't see any difference between a Chevrolet takeout from a salvage car, and buying the exact same engine from GM Performance. Why is a GM takeout engine OK and in fact preferred, but a GM Performance engine (made on the same line) not OK? Two peas in a pod, IMO.

Let me add here that if I bought an assembled set of heads from someone, I would disassemble them when they arrived, to deburr and measure all parts, then re-assemble. Like I said earlier, I trust nobody. Nothing is truly bolt-on for me.

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Somewhere along the ling Roger you have missed my poiny------If building up an old car or a street rod such as your two-------not having any power train or transmission controls,fuel system, accessories, brackets, wiring, belt drive for ps, ac, alt, h2o pump and those components------you can get reasonable milage takeouts from late model cars (trucks) for $$$$$$$$$ that are unmatchable by building it up from various free shipping sourses-----

I have done a few where the core engine for a build was part of the takeout package and utilized all the components some even including the dash panel guages.

I really wish you might just critique my stuff instead of such a high level of criticism. If this site could transition to mode where synergy is instead of the everyday criticism it might return to what it was instead of falling to the level of those other sites

and as for those GM performance engines being made on the gm assembly line------just keep drinking the coolaid

Tech-------one problem about buying assembled cylinder heads and then disassembling them to debur/inspect----if tolerances have been exceeded by haphazard method of assembly, there ain't no adjusting tolerances------if something is too tight, maybe, but if they over did it on ther assembly because they didn't-------have correct parts, machinery, ability, care, etc---there ain't no going back.

My apologies to Glen for hijacking his thread.
My questions about heads was not intended to start a de-rail of his thread. With due respect my apologies for the direction this went..

No problem here - just taking it all in and learning.

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

......and as for those GM performance engines being made on the gm assembly line------just keep drinking the coolaid

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My understanding is based on direct communications with GM engineering, so I guess they lied to me. Keep your Koolaid.

Roger-do you actually believe that an engine base from mid 50s is being built on todays factory assembly line?

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Roger-do you actually believe that an engine base from mid 50s is being built on todays factory assembly line?

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Jerry, I'm not silly enough to believe that ANY productions engines are built on a factory "assemby line". What I believe is that GM has an engine assembly plant, and that all of their engines for the US market are assembled at that plant. I'm also sure that the plant is segregated into areas for their different offerings, but that the Gen I engines that they offer are assembled to the same standards and specifications that were used when they were in production for the line. They are brand new GM engines, assembled by GM technicians, carrying a GM warranty. Same goes for Ford, and I expect for Chrysler if you order a complete engine from their dealerships but I've not communicated with Ford or Chrysler directly.

And with that, I'm done.

Contract shop in Mexico

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Originally Posted by rspears

I've repeatedly said that I consider Chevy Performance and Ford Performance offerings to be equivalent to new car engines, something that MatthyJ has brought to question based on his personal experience,.

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Roger, I have to agree with you that the Big 3 crates are to their spec's for new cars, the problem I had was not with Ford specifically but with their lack of info & knowledge of their product they sold me, the motor runs like a top today. Though I do know the 302 doesn't come from the original factory (which has been torn down I heard) but are assembled in a Ford Performance division for crates, I haven't personally confirmed this but the motor is quite nice today and appears even better than the original due to the benifit of the roller cam & valve train. Best of Luck

Glenn,,, your numbers are very close to what I came up with doing the same thing just never thought about posting them. Great idea,,,, I'm now looking at the cost to do a 5.3 LS motor for the build instead of the 383. Seems you can get good HP from the LS series without having to do a lot to the engine. These engines seem to run like a sowing machine from the factory and are super smooth from idle to red line. The lower end is good for up to 600 HP as it is from all I've read. There's a UTI grad at a local shop near the house who tunes them and he claims getting the 400 HP I'm wanting is very easy in a 5.3 or 6.0. The plan would be to get a donor and bore it to a 5.7 and go from there. Once I have all the info the decision will be made.

I'm like most on here,,, I prefer to know what's in my motors and how they went together VS getting one built elsewhere. This is not saying assembly line built motors aren't any good,,, always check the reviews,,,