'32 Cowl Reshaping

I have a Downs fiberglass '32 body and just received a 3" chopped windshield frame and stanchions from Lobeck---the fit is terrible! The frame is about 5/8" above the eyebrow in the center which is way too much for the seal to do it's job and this is kinda cheating by mounting the lower stanchions alittle low at the ends of the eyebrow. I'd like to re-shape the eyebrow and cowl so the windshield fit's properly. I think if I used that much body filler it would possibly crack and I hate the thought of using fiberglass mat and resin, mainly, because of the mess. I have heard there is body filler with fiberglass strands in it that is much stronger--would this be the right thing to use or does anyone have any other suggestions?? I'm going to try to attach a photo to this--sorry if I mess up! Thanks, Bruce

Matt and resin will make a bigger mess, but it's really the only right way to fill that big of a gap. The glass impregated filler is good, Evercoat has a fine strand out know with Kevlar added to it, but I think you would be much better off building the majority of fill with 'glass. The filler is good, but down the road with all the pounding and shaking of the road, and lots of good old heat from the sun that much filler would quite probably give you grief....

Listen to Dave---He knows what he's talking about!!! If you fill a gap that big, you will have a big mess on your hands. That flat, horizontal section of your car gets the most sunlight, and a humungous build up of material in the top of the cowl will expand and contract at a different rate than the rest of the glass body, causing it to crack out and ruin any finished paint job. I think the only way to fix that properly is to make about 5 evenly spaced relief cuts which extend from the passenger compartment about 3/4 of the way to the firewall across the top of the cowl, parallel to the centerline of the car. Work from inside to jack all the peices of cowl out to the proper position, as determined by your windshield frame, then put a layer of mat and resin on the outside to hold everything in place. After it kicks, wait 24 hours, then remove all the jacking from inside and lay up a couple of layers of mat and resin on the inner cowl surface. Wait 48 hours after it kicks, then bondo finish the glassed area on the outside. It appears that the cowl is the correct shape at the firewall, as the hood seems to fit okay. That being the case, the actual "bodyworked" area will be relatively small. It looks like they may have pulled that body from the mold while it was still "green" and without proper support the area directly below the windshield has sagged.

It may just be the photo ;) or the angle of the photo, but the windshield frame looks like it has way to much curve in the bottom ... to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/DSC02136.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1863704380.jpg

Owned a original 32 roadster for 30 plus years ...
I believe I would check the windshield frame against another one ( that fits good ) before I went to messing with the body :o

You said it's a 3" chop, looks like maybe the stanchions are for 2". What is the measurement between the wing nuts on the windshield stanchions? Should be 6 1/4" center to center of the wing nuts for 3"
'

Typical 'glass body stuff.... Most of them are a copy of a copy, or a mold shot off an old mold..... I've never seen a 'glass body that is a correct match to the original, closest I've see is a Wescott.... All the other aftermarket components are the same....Doubt any of the body pieces are exact reproductions, but rather made to fit whatever body the prototype was designed to fit......

how is the fit up to the cowl to windshield frame with out the stanchions just laying the frame up to the cowl? re work a set of stanchions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jpelli

You said it's a 3" chop, looks like maybe the stanchions are for 2". What is the measurement between the wing nuts on the windshield stanchions? Should be 6 1/4" center to center of the wing nuts for 3"
'

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Hi jpelli,
I checked the upper stanchions and they are the 6 1/4" for the 3" chop.
Thanks, Bruce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deuce

It may just be the photo ;) or the angle of the photo, but the windshield frame looks like it has way to much curve in the bottom ... to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/DSC02136.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1863704380.jpg

Owned a original 32 roadster for 30 plus years ...
I believe I would check the windshield frame against another one ( that fits good ) before I went to messing with the body :o

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Hi Deuce,
I know what you mean about the curve of the bottom. That's the first thing I thought when I got it and matched it up to the body. The frame is the right height in the center for a 3" chop (length of a dollar bill) but Monday I'm going to make sure everything is right by matching it up to another guy's windshield, just to make sure.
Pat,
I held the frame up on the body and it doesn't match the shape of the cowl.
Dave & Brian,
Thanks for steering me away from using alot of (thick) "bondo". I like Brian's idea about cutting, jacking and reglassing the cowl. I'll have to look everything over real good and plan that out.

Still open to more suggestions but THANKS EVERYONE so far!!
Bruce

Might want to call Downs and see what windshield frame will fit the car... They just went through an ownership change, maybe thinks aren't up to par yet. They used to put out a decent body.....

Yeah, I see that it's called Legend Motors Worldwide now. I heard that Jim Downs died. I've helped build a few Downs cars and they all were okay but this is the first roadster. I had emailed Downs a few times about this but never got an answer, I'll have to give them a call but I bet the answer will be, "We've never had that problem before."

this sounds abit harsh but can you run a come long a cross the top in side of the cowl where the doors jam s are and bow it abit cut loose any cross brace and get the body warm the glass will move alot

The body would not be that far off. There may be some minor insconsistencies from body to body, but nothing like your photos show. That has to be a windshield problem of some kind.

I'm kind of in the same pickle as Randy wondering about the picture angle and so forth, but on the other side of the fence. Trying not to let the w/s frame influence my eye, it looks like the cowl doesn't have the right crown in the mid section, almost looks like it is flat or sinks a bit. You definitely don't want to patch all that with filler, looks like you'll be in for some cutting and reshaping. Had to do that on the deck lid flange of the Gibbon '32 I did a few years back to get it to make the deck lid fit the body correctly.:rolleyes:

IMHO - that windshield frame looks like about the way it should. I've attached a scan from a Speedway page. I looked at my '31 roadster windshield and it appears to have a more gentle curve the the '32.

The car pictured is an OEM deuce as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NSRA905

The frame is about 5/8" above the eyebrow in the center which is way too much for the seal to do it's job and this is kinda cheating by mounting the lower stanchions alittle low at the ends of the eyebrow.

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http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2063858171.jpg

I taped a 48 inch straigh edge ruler on the windshield, getting it level. then I made sure that the ends were the same distance from the straight edge to the corner of the windshield frame. ;)

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...2063858160.jpg

The distance measures exactly two inches ( both sides ) ... and as you can clearly see, the windshield fits like it is supposed too. :D

Bruce--take a photo head on like Randy did and compare. I am curious as we all are.

First of all I want to thank Deuce for going through the work of measuring his windshield frame and posting the pictures!
I did the same with mine and for some reason I get a measurement of 2 5/16" where he got the 2"--so mine has more of an arch than his. That's weird. I purchased mine from Lobecks and they do alot of '32's so I don't understand why there is a difference. Deuce, is your's an original '32 frame or is it a repo? If it's a repo, what brand?
I thought what appeared to be more of an arch in my pictures was just, as comedian Norm Crosby would say, an obstacle conclusion.
I don't need this, it's really discouraging.
Bruce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NSRA905

I did the same with mine and for some reason I get a measurement of 2 5/16" where he got the 2"--so mine has more of an arch than his. That's weird. I purchased mine from Lobecks.

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5/16ths is not enough to fix your problem IMHO :o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NSRA905

Deuce, is your's an original '32 frame or is it a repo?
Bruce

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I consider that a INSULT :) :LOL:
NO REPRODUCTIONS ALLOWED :D


Most reproduction stuff just does not fit as well as Henry's stuff. I do believe that Walter Twaintwein ( mis-spelled I suspect ) makes the best roadster windshield frames. I have used his in a few friends 32 Ford sedans and Victorias. Fit just like Henrys ;) We got them from Dick Spadaro ... he is close to them ...

As a side note, I helped a friend install a DuVuall style windshield on his 32 roadster 4 or 5 years back. He ordered it from So-Cal Speed Shop in Pomona California. They asked if he had a original 32, a Brookville 32 or a Wescott 32.
Each one required a different windshield frame due to the curvature of the cowl. :confused:

Good Luck ...

Can you get a shot from straight on??? I'm with Bob, the center looks really low but it could be the angle of the pic... Also, could be the car was popped from the mold to early and the center drooped.... Seen it happen. With all the changes at Down's, who knows???? 'Glass bodies can be that far off, all it takes is a bit of carelessness or somebody getting in a big hurry....

It looks like they may have pulled that body from the mold while it was still "green" and without proper support the area directly below the windshield has sagged.[/QUOTE]

Damn Dave---This is just like Deja'Vu all over again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brianrupnow

It looks like they may have pulled that body from the mold while it was still "green" and without proper support the area directly below the windshield has sagged.

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Damn Dave---This is just like Deja'Vu all over again.[/QUOTE]

Yeah Really!!!!! Just please don't ask me how I learned that lesson..........

Minor problem ... the cowl/windshield fit.

Now this is a problem ...:CRY:

http://www.donshotrodpage.net/BoardJunk/XP3240002.JPG

http://www.donshotrodpage.net/BoardJunk/XP3240001.JPG

My friend Don Dillard was hit and then forced into a curb today. Steel car with lots of charm. At least the the E-250 Ford van driver had insurance ( company van ).

Now, that's absolutely sickening!!!! I did a search and found his site and saw how the car looked when he got it, etc. Hope he's okay! Makes my problem seem like nothing at all.
Bruce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deuce

[ I do believe that Walter Twaintwein ( mis-spelled I suspect ) makes the best roadster windshield frames. I have used his in a few friends 32 Ford sedans and Victorias. Fit just like Henrys ;) We got them from Dick Spadaro ... he is close to them ...

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I think you might mean Trautwein, he is the best; TRAUTWEIN PRODUCTS, Phone 518-677-5668

Man, that's a huge shame on Dillards roadster. If I recall correctly the chassis was a temporary one he planned to eventually replace, but all that OEM sheet metal.............:CRY: :CRY:

Deuce, gotta ask you--is this the Don Dillard that played baseball? You mention that he's your friend and I see that the ball player was born in SC where you are.

If the body's cowl is the problem, the best solution may be to fabricate a new lower piece to the windshield to match the curve of your cowl. Pain in the a$$, I know. But I would look toward that as a solution to the problem rather than trying to build up the cowl to fit the windshield you have. It would be less work but more expensive as you would have to have it re-plated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NSRA905

Deuce, gotta ask you--is this the Don Dillard that played baseball? You mention that he's your friend and I see that the ball player was born in SC where you are.

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Not the same Don Dillard.

The roadster owner Don Dillard is younger and lives in California, just outside Los Angeles. We usually eat Mexican @ a little Mexican place just behind the tower @ Pomona Drag Strip. I was in California twice last year. Once for the Grand National Roadster Show and again for the LA Roadster show.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...ow/GNRS115.jpg

I did meet Don Dillard the Greenville SC native one time. I lived in Greenville back when he first turned PRO and went to the Major Leagues.

Ain't it a b@#$@h for a car to make it 76 years just to have some yokel, probably talking or texting on a cell phone to "do it in":mad: .

Deuce - It looks like your friend has a serious upcoming project for the next few months to return the car to at least driveable shape. I'm not a real fan of the patina look but.......dang

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Originally Posted by IC2

I'm not a real fan of the patina look but.......dang

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I agree on the " Patina " look but his was REAL ... not new made to look old.

http://donshotrodpage.net/Project-32/P9300030.jpg

This is how it looked when he got it ...

Well, I emailed Downs and said I would like to know which manufacturer has a 2" or 3" chopped windshield frame that fits their '32 roadster bodies properly. This is the answer I received--"It doesn't matter if you use 2" or 3" they both fit the same."
I got back to them right away and explained that I needed the name of a company that makes a windshield frame that fits their body. I told them I had one from Lobecks that didn't fit right. Vicky Downs again got back to me and asked, "Have you tried the Early Ford Store or The Deuce Factory?" So--I guess they don't have a clue about what windshield does fit their bodies. Apparently I'm supposed to keep ordering windshields from different places and see if each one fits.
The windshield I have from Lobeck is a 3" chop and is 10 1/4" tall at the ends---this, according to the Speedway info is 1/4" too short (should be 10 1/2"). This is why I have to cheat alittle and move the lower stanchions below the eyebrow to get the windshield anywhere near the eyebrow. Also, comparing this 3" chopped windshield to alot of others (including Deuce's windshield) it has about 5/16" to much arch. If these two problems were corrected it still wouldn't get the windshield near fitting so it must be a combination of both the body and the frame being off. Looks like I'll be ordering a Speedway frame and then work on the body some.

This looks like the cowl shape is right for my windshield frame! I also see where I can carry our luggage.