reality check

for a quick recap...i totalled my 12 sec iroc-z28 and ended up getting a 1999 SS camaro...

took her down for some grudge match racing on wednesday night and was more than impressed. first pass i just did a dry-hop and didnt bother getting the tires hott, had a .547 reaction time,she spun a bit off the line and ended up rollin through the traps at a 13.57. My second pass i got the tires plenty hott and had a .522 light. she didnt spin one bit and ended up runnin a 13.23. My last pass for the night i had a .513 light with a quicker 60' time but ended up missin 3rd gear and sent the motor to the moon, i didnt even bother looking at the timeslip i was so pissed off.

now that thats out of the way i have to address a belief of mine. although there are no import freaks in here, i believe that they are the reason for the fall of the long lived camaro. as fred gibbs once said 'teenagers make cars... what they want, we build' keeping that in mind...how many teenagers now a days do you see rollin around in newer camaros, mustangs firebirds etc.
and no, im not forgeting the money issue, but a majority of the kids that can afford beautiful machines end up wasting it on 'nos' and 'cold air' and 'body-kits' and other shit that makes a honda look more hidious than ever. while at cecil county dragway on wednesday night the only impressive 4-banger i saw was a 1998 honda civic runnin on nitrous and he was more than proud when he posted a 14.32 e.t.

keep in mind...this kid was all decked out with his $400 watch, $200 shoes, a wanna-be brittany spears girlfriend, and the whole bit. but COME-ON its a damn civic with not even half the amount of motor i have and he probably has more money in after market parts than i bought my whole car for. but...i guess ill never figure out why they killed a once living legend, the camaro.

I agree. Maybe a few years down the road they will re-introduce the Camaro. We can only hope.

People with imports have them cause of what they see and hear, fast and furious, come on, then what do they always end up wrecking??? the real muscle (minus the mopars haha). Im sure the camaro will be brought back, but is there really a need for it? sure i know its one of the greatest cars around but who do they compete with? mustangs? doubt it. They still got the vette, killer price tag and all to beat up on that. Then they still have the trans am, which in my opinion come well faster factory then any new camaro i have ever seen. Why is that so??? any reason??? But you gotta watch out, they are pushin out 14 second neons from factory now days, whats that about? All in all i think its just a fad, muscle will always rule the boulevard. :D

I donno'.....those computer genarated race scenes in fast & furious 2 made those ricers look really really fast..........I guess it's time for a trip down to my local Subaru dealer and trade in the old school Mustang !!!!!Chris..........Not !!!!!!!!

That f&f movie was only worth watching becouse of the cuda and the camero, and you noticed it was the camero that saved the day, with the cuda backing it up. I was looking into a new camero ss for the girlfriend, but the last year just did'nt quite cut the mustard. I though of waiting for the new camero to see what comes of it. I've seen the concept car they had in mind, and i was not impressed. I don't know what chevy has been thinking over the last few years, but they can't seem to figure out what the buying public is looking for. The new camero is just another cookiecutter car, dull dull dull. At least fords new mustang has the balls to do something with the design team. Even the new challanger is half ass appealing. Then GM puts out that boring GTO, how many other old model lines can they screw up. I thought that the reserection of the t-bird was nice, lets see the new GT 40. GM has got to step it up and start putting up or shutting up

Being the Ford guy that I am, I have to agree with Diamond. Ford is way ahead on design and performance for the money spent. Vette's are still nice, but the price is a bit much for what you get. I would really like to see GM introduce a ground pounder rear wheel drive V-8 car with knock your eyes out styling, cuz the the rest of the manufacturers would have to get on the ball to out do the boyz at GM. I'm a bit partial, but the way I see it right now Ford is light years ahead of the rest.

Would anybody want the car manufacturers to bring back old styles of the camaros, mustangs, etc? I just think that would be really odd, but right now ford is actually on track, is mopar even still alive in this area????

they are bringing back the camero in 2005 or 2006 if my info guys are correct

i live about 40 miles from moroso in florida and we have about 60 12second and under imports about 20 of them are honda and the rest are toyota and mazda

me and my dad are in the middle of building a 2300 four cylinder (ford) im going to attempt to put four small turbos four hillborn injectors four msd boxes four coils (off of a crank trigger) the reason for so many coils with one msd box and one coil i can make a bosch platinum plus four spark off all four pegs i think that will be enough spark to burn as much fuel as i can possibly feed it the whole motor will be balenced ported and polished im guessing that the motor running off of alchohol it will well above 700hp!! we are going to put it in an 89 rx-7 with a ford nine inch with a c-6 tranny with an 8000 stall i just hope i dont get whiplash!

Maybe ill just scrap that BB stang gasser project of mine and get a honda civic instead !

Quote:

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Originally posted by jeffrey leonard
me and my dad are in the middle of building a 2300 four cylinder (ford) im going to attempt to put four small turbos four hillborn injectors four msd boxes four coils (off of a crank trigger) the reason for so many coils with one msd box and one coil i can make a bosch platinum plus four spark off all four pegs i think that will be enough spark to burn as much fuel as i can possibly feed it the whole motor

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I'd skip the platinum plugs. Platinum has a low melting point and won't hold up with that much ignition and combustion going on. The only reason I know this is that my daily driver has a DIS system that has lower output than the setup you are dreaming up and I can't keep platinum plugs in it-it keeps burning the tips up.

Abe

Yanno, I've always been partial to American muscle. I only own American cars. But the desire to conform has been taking a toll on me lately. I found a good deal on a 1991 Mitsu Eclipse GS turbo. Would get it but for the fact that I'm broke and can't find work. 180 HP in a tiny little car sounds good, and that's at the wheels. Better than what I have now by a damn sight. Too bad it's an auto. And too bad I'm broke. But, then again, maybe it's good. One less ricer on the road. One fewer potential rice racer. I also found a good deal on a Camero. Too bad I'm broke. I would get it, but I could never afford the insurance on it. Maybe when I get my Nash done I'll have something to race in. But I will probably stay an American iron man at heart, no matter what I happen to end up driving.

Hey its better to be in a beater American car than a nice rice wagon anyday. Im gonna drive my Plymouths flat six banger till it pops then just stick a sb dodge in her.

Screw the ricers, run American iron.

an 8,000 stall converter?? What kind of RPM you planning on truning this thing??? Hope you have a really big check book for those ideas...... I don't see any ricers in my future, I'll stick with the American iron, thank you.

The only import I have ever owned and will ever own is a BMW, kraut-rocket other than that all american Iron or plastic in the case of my camaro.
I would get anouther import but I cannt afford a lambo or a farrari testy.
I can deal with those imports!!!

Otto

4 turbos, 4 boxes, 4 coils, maybe hes gonna run 4 2000 stalls, i dunno;) :D

A little off the subject but does anyone have any comparisons on the new vettes vs. the vipers? i heard the vettes gonna run around 500 horse, any truth to that?

I thought I read somewhere that the base engine was 350 hp and the other option was a 400 hp v-8 , I'm not positive though.

I think the Chevy SS concept could put a little life back in the Performance bracket for GM. The Camaro will be back. Hopefully it wont be another Impala(DIE in 2K5-POSER!), but GM has this knack of bringin back the classics. Saldy though, no more cutlass! Ah well, the aurora is fast for now....

I agree with ya there. They bring them back but an Impala with a v-6 and front wheel drive? and how about the malibu , yikes.
Maybee the ss concept would mean something like special options and motor chioces like it did back then . Other than the vette does gm even produce any "muscle" any more?:CRY:

What do you guys think of your new Pontiac GTO?
It's built over hear in oz as the Monaro which in itself harks back to the glory day of aussie muscle cars when the Monaro was a crude rubber burner fitted with a 350 chev.
GMH (the H stands for Holden) built up a few versions of the new Monaro/GTO with a 427.
Unfortunately they've scapped plans for full production.:CRY :
When it comes to chrome and body scoops etc we aussies like our cars a bit more underdone than you fellas and so I'd be interested in your opions.
Over here they're seen as a very desirable set of wheels. :)

Here's a pic of the aussie version.

Not to offend, pal, but that strikes me of honda civic/ Dodge neon styling there. Maybe with a touch of audi TT thrown in. Ah well, anything with a 350 cant be all bad.

Hmmm. Thought as much.
I've read similar comments about the car being too bland for American tastes.
Funny how what works in one counrty is a flop in others.
The Ford Taurus was a classic failure over here. Everybody hated it's styling and when Ford stupidly based their next locally produced Falcon on it they nearly went broke.

Don't lump us all in the same basket. For every punk kid with a Honda or other import out there acting like an ass, I can find you one Mustang/Camaro post-adolescent out there acting the same way.

Those of us who are into imports and to actually making them quick don't subscribe to the F%@# and the F%&#)@ crap--in fact, we probably despise it more-so than you do on the account that it gave us all a bad name.

I've been in this sport since around '94, and can attest that "movie" did everything but drive me away from the import scene. I can't count the times on my bodily digits that I've wanted to snap some little *%#*'s neck when they ask "Yo, man! That sh!t have NAAWS on it!?"

You'll also find that a lot of the more knowledgeable ones will also be the 1st to drool over some classic muscle.


As much as I like my quick imports, I also love me some big cubes.

Now back to searching for knowledge on this '72 C-10 project....

Edit: One more note. Don't think that there aren't a few of us "serious" import enthusiasts that don't like surprising some of the cocky domestic muscle owners as well.

We all view through the fence--just sometimes from different sides of it. :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by IROCZ28
for a quick recap...i totalled my 12 sec iroc-z28 and ended up getting a 1999 SS camaro...

took her down for some grudge match racing on wednesday night and was more than impressed. first pass i just did a dry-hop and didnt bother getting the tires hott, had a .547 reaction time,she spun a bit off the line and ended up rollin through the traps at a 13.57. My second pass i got the tires plenty hott and had a .522 light. she didnt spin one bit and ended up runnin a 13.23. My last pass for the night i had a .513 light with a quicker 60' time but ended up missin 3rd gear and sent the motor to the moon, i didnt even bother looking at the timeslip i was so pissed off.

now that thats out of the way i have to address a belief of mine. although there are no import freaks in here, i believe that they are the reason for the fall of the long lived camaro. as fred gibbs once said 'teenagers make cars... what they want, we build' keeping that in mind...how many teenagers now a days do you see rollin around in newer camaros, mustangs firebirds etc.
and no, im not forgeting the money issue, but a majority of the kids that can afford beautiful machines end up wasting it on 'nos' and 'cold air' and 'body-kits' and other shit that makes a honda look more hidious than ever. while at cecil county dragway on wednesday night the only impressive 4-banger i saw was a 1998 honda civic runnin on nitrous and he was more than proud when he posted a 14.32 e.t.

keep in mind...this kid was all decked out with his $400 watch, $200 shoes, a wanna-be brittany spears girlfriend, and the whole bit. but COME-ON its a damn civic with not even half the amount of motor i have and he probably has more money in after market parts than i bought my whole car for. but...i guess ill never figure out why they killed a once living legend, the camaro.

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Sorry to hear about your Camaro. As for the other stuff, well, I know that I have already posted my opinion on this a few times and I still feel the same as I always did about it. I will say though, don't blame the ricers for the death of the beloved Camaro, blame their girlfriends. Ya'll may think I'm kidding but I'm not. Their girlfriends like the rice and so that's what they want.

Could guys spend money on old muscle to fix it up and turn in lower ets for less money???? Sure, then they'd be just like the rest of us "old timers". Then again, they could also do without video games, computers, color t.v., all 1500 channels of it, etc. Just like we did. Times change :( (unfortunately). They (the ricers) gotta be different than us; because being "new and different" is cool..:cool:..and it pisses all of us off :mad: and that makes it even more attractive :toocool:. You know, rebellion 'cause rebels are cool, rebels get the girls. I've said it before.....bling bling and sex.

Ricers and rap are this generations Muscle cars and Rock and Roll. Sad...:(...but TRUE.

Now, before somebody says it....YES....there are exceptions and not everybody that's young is like that. Just like everybody that is "old" is not like me. I'm speaking in generalizations here, and I believe that what I am posting is generally true, not all inclusive.

As for me, I owned a Honda once. It burned to the ground on me one day and I've never wanted another one. I'll stick with the stuff that was cool way back when I was a kid...:confused:...way back in the 70's and 80's. :LOL: Besides that, there really aren't very many new domestic cars that I like either. I like the classic stuff, and in some cases re-introducing a model even with an attempt to style it well annoys me. I do like the SSR from GM and I also like the Avalanche (not that it is a muscle car) because they're "cool" if you know what I mean......I also actually like the new GTO's (not as much as the original) because, come on, it's rear wheel drive and 350 Hp from the factory....At least the manufacturers are trying to put some real power back out on the street. It's better than front wheel drive and 175 Hp isn't it?

Cheers,
Firechicken

Quote:

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Originally posted by Firechicken

Could guys spend money on old muscle to fix it up and turn in lower ets for less money???? Sure, then they'd be just like the rest of us "old timers".

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It depends on what "Lower ETs" means. If you're talking 10s or better, you're probably right. The cubes really come in to play. However, a customer of mine just ran an 11.4 in his Grassroots motorsports challenge car (read, low-buck car buildup challenge)....stock 4 banger block/head.

I've built low 12 second/high 11 second import street cars for a lot less than you'd probably believe.

Not all of them are Hondas, and a pretty bulletproof 4 banger that's factory turbocharged makes the job pretty easy.

Now, if you would have said "class"--well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and someday, I too, would love to build a few older cars up when I find the time.

Mmm...the thoughts of the sounds that a BB with twin T-66s hanging off of it would make....

Quote:

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Originally posted by DSSA
It depends on what "Lower ETs" means. If you're talking 10s or better, you're probably right. The cubes really come in to play. However, a customer of mine just ran an 11.4 in his Grassroots motorsports challenge car (read, low-buck car buildup challenge)....stock 4 banger block/head.

I've built low 12 second/high 11 second import street cars for a lot less than you'd probably believe.

Not all of them are Hondas, and a pretty bulletproof 4 banger that's factory turbocharged makes the job pretty easy.

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Part of the problem is that the 4Cylinders are more than just 4cylinders. Theyre Ricer-4 cylinders. There are two engines you might want to read up on. They're called the Iron Duke and the Quad 4. American, buletproof and they will take just about anything you throw at them.:3dSMILE: Need referance? just ask any 84-85 jeep cherokee 4 cylinder.

This thread has turned out to be a place for visiting rice-brains to unload the burdon of guilt they carry being at a real steel american car site. I don't care if they turn 6's on pump gas and get 50 miles to the gallon doing it for only $100 bucks. I WILL NEVER OWN ONE!! You will not sell me on them little critters because they sound like sewing machines on Steriods!:p :p It may be the latest and greatest thing, maybe even the best cars being made by factorys but they suck. People are constantly coming in here and trying thier best to convince people that ricers are fast there for they are great, Why? Why is that you suppose? Because they are men and they know in thier hearts what is REALLY COOL and what is imported and labeled cool.:D :D

Rice is best mixed with cream of chiken soup and onions and hot peppers and wrapped in a tort! Ummm good!:D :D :D :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:

Quote:

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Originally posted by drg84
Part of the problem is that the 4Cylinders are more than just 4cylinders. Theyre Ricer-4 cylinders. There are two engines you might want to read up on. They're called the Iron Duke and the Quad 4.

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What about them? Pretty common knowledge.

Quote:

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Originally posted by brickman
This thread has turned out to be a place for visiting rice-brains to unload the burdon of guilt they carry being at a real steel american car site. I don't care if they turn 6's on pump gas and get 50 miles to the gallon doing it for only $100 bucks. I WILL NEVER OWN ONE!! You will not sell me on them little critters because they sound like sewing machines on Steriods!:p :p It may be the latest and greatest thing, maybe even the best cars being made by factorys but they suck. People are constantly coming in here and trying thier best to convince people that ricers are fast there for they are great, Why? Why is that you suppose? Because they are men and they know in thier hearts what is REALLY COOL and what is imported and labeled cool.:D :D

Rice is best mixed with cream of chiken soup and onions and hot peppers and wrapped in a tort! Ummm good!:D :D :D :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:

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Thanks for the narrow-minded...well.....rant?

I'm glad you could get that off of your chest, and take an open minded discussion and turn it into a flame-fest.

No one's trying to convince you, or anyone else to own one, as I can see your limited intelligence would prevent you from learning much anyway.

This was never an open minded discussion. There are two sides that don't agree. Brikman gave his opinion on ricers. Most of us agree with him. This is a hot rod website and ricers are a different part of the automotive hobby. They will never be accepted as real hot rods.
I looked at ricers with an open mind several years ago and didn't like them so now that my mind is made up Ther's no chance anything you say will change my mind. Your mind is just operating at a lower level than mine so it looks good to you.
I don't go to ricer websites and tell them they should get a real car.
I have a fast Porsche but I don't try to sell the guys here on the advantages of German engineering and I don't tell the guys on the Porsche website that they should put a Chevy engine in their cars. If you want replies that agree with yours go to a ricer site.
As for the flame fest it looks like you are the first flamer not Brickman.

Quote:

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Originally posted by The Al Show
This was never an open minded discussion. There are two sides that don't agree. Brikman gave his opinion on ricers. Most of us agree with him. This is a hot rod website and ricers are a different part of the automotive hobby. They will never be accepted as real hot rods.

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Nor is anyone trying to get them accepted as "hot rods".

Quote:

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I looked at ricers with an open mind several years ago and didn't like them so now that my mind is made up Ther's no chance anything you say will change my mind. Your mind is just operating at a lower level than mine so it looks good to you.

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If your post and your comprehension (or lack thereof) is any indication, I would highly disagree with this. However, I'm sure in your own mind, you, sir, are a genius.

Quote:

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I don't go to ricer websites and tell them they should get a real car.

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Show me where anyone said "Buy an import!" or the equivalent *anywhere* in this thread. Distorting conversations and statements to fit your own weak platform only pokes more holes in it.

Quote:

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I have a fast Porsche

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Once again, "fast" is a subjective description.

Quote:

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but I don't try to sell the guys here on the advantages of German engineering and I don't tell the guys on the Porsche website that they should put a Chevy engine in their cars. If you want replies that agree with yours go to a ricer site.
As for the flame fest it looks like you are the first flamer not Brickman.

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Once again, you're distorting the conversation. Is it a matter of grasp of the english language? Or a simple distortion of reality? As neither points in the prior paragraph have any truth (or supporting evidence) in the thread.

As for me flaming, well, yes, you can consider this "flaming" now.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DSSA
[B]Nor is anyone trying to get them accepted as "hot rods".

"anyone"? ... You have done extensive research!
To post your views on a HotRod forum is.. not subjective?

The shadows will be behind you if you walk into the light.
----Royce

:LOL:

Well I guess that D ASS told me off.
As a matter of fact I do posess what is considered a "genius" IQ. That's why I'm sure your level of thinking is much lower than mine.

Disect and distort that D ASS

As for smarts, coming to this site loving rice proves yours. I can build a real car from the ground up that will run with any ricer for 1/3rd the money, smart? I won't give $25,000.00 for a car that is made from my recycled pepsi cans, Smart? I don't bad mouth people for thier opinions(You being the first Dass) on this site, smart?

I think that you have proved everybodys point that only smart-aleck punks like rice with no respect for anyone who disagrees with them or doesn't have a "Sick" car like thiers otherwise you wouldn't have gotten so offensive.

Take your uncle Ben's and fast and furious your way to the oriental websites where you all can talk trash to each other and live happily ever after, I for one would be happy.

I guess each generation has their preferences in rods. I am a 50s and 60s rodder but I can appreciate the incredible performance that the latest generation are getting from those "ricer racers". And when I pull into the 7-11 in my 19ft. '65 Bonnie with the big 421 rumblin', I get a lot of attention from those boys (& girls) too. So I guess a rodder is a rodder is a rodder......Frank in Virginia

Quote:

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Originally posted by The Al Show
Well I guess that D ASS told me off.
As a matter of fact I do posess what is considered a "genius" IQ. That's why I'm sure your level of thinking is much lower than mine.

Disect and distort that D ASS

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I'm impressed. Since I've scored a 139 and a 137 when I was tested, I guess the only thing left to do is drop the drawers and measure them. I'll give you a bye-run on that one, since it too, is something I really don't care about.

IQ tests are nothing like having a Honda that's got a huge wing, and all chromed out. Might tell everyone about it, but when it comes down to doing what it should--isn't anything impressive.

I had my nephew stay with me for a couple of months and he's into that ricer stuff. The way i see it each generation has their cars and hey good luck to you. Me i perfer the muscle that i grew up with, in 20 years from now the hovercrafts will rule with their hydro powerplants and they'll make fun of the ricers yet again so they'll get theres too.

Quote:

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Originally posted by brickman
As for smarts, coming to this site loving rice proves yours. I can build a real car from the ground up that will run with any ricer for 1/3rd the money, smart? I won't give $25,000.00 for a car that is made from my recycled pepsi cans, Smart? I don't bad mouth people for thier opinions(You being the first Dass) on this site, smart?

I think that you have proved everybodys point that only smart-aleck punks like rice with no respect for anyone who disagrees with them or doesn't have a "Sick" car like thiers otherwise you wouldn't have gotten so offensive.

Take your uncle Ben's and fast and furious your way to the oriental websites where you all can talk trash to each other and live happily ever after, I for one would be happy.

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You sir, are a complete idiot.

The only bad-mouthing I did was towards people who were bad-mouthing others. I've stated *SEVERAL* times (read that closely--SEVERAL--) that I enjoy domestic muscle as much as the next guy. Otherwise, I wouldn't be building a '72 C-10 up in my spare time.

The *ONLY* issue I have is with narrow-minded people lumping all import owners into the same basket, and labeling them all as "slow". There are quite a few "I-Can't-See-The-World-In-Color" people who own domestics (as you're well proving this theory) as well as Import owners.

There are "Ricers" and there are Import enthusiasts who just appreciate the same thing that most of you do---working on the cars and squeezing power from them. The fact of the badge plate on the vehicle shouldn't mean a damn thing.

In essence, you're just as bad as the cocky 17 y/o driving around in their fart-can equipped Honda with his hat on sideways pumping the latest "Slap Yo Bitch" CD in their Kraco soundsystem and laughing at all the "Domestic Junk". The only difference is that you're on the other side of the fence.

If I'm in the wrong enjoying both, well, then I'll die be wrong--but at least I'll die knowing what's actually on both sides of the fence.

And your notion that the only thing import owners do is buy a $25K car and deck it out only strengthens the proof of your ignorance that you seemingly love to wear as a badge on your arm so proudly. I have built and can show you MANY cheap 12 and 11 second Imports. One I bought for $500, due to high mileage and a bad ECU. Took it home, changed the fluids/filters/plugs and did a timing belt service one. Drove it for a week, pulled it into the shop. Built a 2.5" downpipe and cat-back for it, put in a used centerforce DF clutch, ported the exhaust manifold, hung a used 20G on it, a $35 manual boost controller and an intercooler off of a junkyard Starion. Tuned it the next morning (no sleep) and went to the local track for Test-n-Tune. Car netted a 12.9@105 on shitty "Big O" 195/60/15s.

Built a 3" catback with an Ultra-Flow over the following week, and upped the boost--12.2@112...in a car with 154K on the odometer.


I can give you a literal LIST of other cars I've built over the years like this.
Yep, we all stick a ton of money in these cars...:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally posted by fhgrant
I guess each generation has their preferences in rods. I am a 50s and 60s rodder but I can appreciate the incredible performance that the latest generation are getting from those "ricer racers". And when I pull into the 7-11 in my 19ft. '65 Bonnie with the big 421 rumblin', I get a lot of attention from those boys (& girls) too. So I guess a rodder is a rodder is a rodder......Frank in Virginia

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I applaud you. This is the mentality that I speak of.

Nice car btw, as well. I feel like a kid in a candy store every time I take out my grandfather's '66 Bonneville Convertible (albeit, with only a 389).

Although, my favorite to drive is the '56 Jaguar XK140 Drop-head-coupe. There's just something about driving sports cars built in that era, knowing that some guy was doing 142 mph in one and taking corners like a bat out of hell @ LeMans. I always joke around that the small trunk in the back wasn't for luggage--but to carry around the cajones of the old race drivers.