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Looking at all four rounds of qualifying for today's NHRA event in Memphis, there were 19 Top Fuelers, 18 Funny Cars, 17 Pro Stocks, and 16 Pro Stock bikes which tried to qualify ........... that's a total of 70 professional entrants for the four classes .......... that's really sad :(:(
The 1969 U.S. Nationals had more Top Fuelers than that trying to qualify to get into the field of 32.
It's a sad statement on what drag racing has become :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Yuppers, takes a ton of money to even be close to competitive in the pro classes....
I guess you know you're old when you can remember when two guys with good jobs could afford to go racing.... Now it's a struggle to keep a bracket car going!!!!
Garlits’ ideas are simple and harsh. Make the rear wing smaller and lower it to take away downforce. Have Goodyear build smaller racing tires to take away grip. Disqualify any team that blows an engine and drops oil on the track. The engines right now, if they’d cut them back to about 1,000 or 1,500 horsepower, they would run forever,” he said. “And the problem about slowing the cars down would be solved. It would also bridge the gap between the haves and the have-nots. The competition would be a lot closer, and that’s what’s going to bring the fans back.”
I think these are good ideas, but NHRA and the powers to be will never go for it.
I second that, Ken!!!! We used the same block, heads, crank, and blower for 3 seasons in top alcohol.... We weren't the biggest horsepower operation there, but I sure did drive around a lot of those 'built on the edge' engines when they gernaded at about 1,000'!!!!!!
Along with the smaller wing, cut the nitro percentage back to about 70% and parts will last a lot longer, too!!!
I've gave some thought the last few years to going back to where I started out in drag racing, a B/SS Mopar.....Man, you wouldn't believe what it would cost to put together a super stocker that can run on index!!!!! and I originally did it working in the service department at a Dodge dealer!!!!!
they should run them like the nostalgia fuel funny cars motors 70-90% 6-71 blower small pump 2 speed trans those motors like a long time for being fuel motors
"whaattt???"Quote:
Originally Posted by gassersrule_196
If they take away all the latest R&D and put the teams in ill handling, low HP cars, won't it become NASCAR? Or crate model racing? Teams are already limited, that is why Outlaw Pro Mods are cool, very limited rules, but makes it hard for the lower budget teams.
There are links on www.hotrodders.com posted yesterday the entire Memphis racing facility is going to be shut down,NHRA has announced that there will be one less event for 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Coyote
You think NASCAR is affordable??? Limiting rules on the pro classes are necessary to keep the big money teams from turning it into a money race....Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetstang
Look at the qualifying times in the Pro Classes, can't get any closer!!! 30 or 40 cars qualifying within thousands of each other would just be better!!! Why not make it affordable for more teams???? From first hand experience, it's absolutely no fun racing where the biggest check book wins......
Yup, saw that. Another victim of the economy....Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB2
Somebody sent this to me a few years back, before the Nitro cars switched to 1,000 feet (R.I.P., Mr. Kalitta)....
One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower
than the first 6 rows at the Daytona 500.
Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1 gallon of nitromethane
per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 2
5% less energy being produced.
A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the
dragster supercharger.
With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive,
the fuel mixture is compressed into a near- solid form before ignition.
Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.
At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/ fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame
front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.
Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the
stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric wa
ter vapor by the searing exhaust gases.
Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of
an arc welder in each cylinder.
Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After _ way,
the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at
1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.
If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up
in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow
cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.
In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at
an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track,
the launch acceleration approaches 8Gs.
Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed
reading this sentence.
Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light!
Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under
load.
The redline is actually quite high at 9500rpm.
It takes 1500+hp just to turn a top fuel blower.
The pressure coming out of the headers can provide 1000lbs of downforce.
When a cylinder goes out, it can actually steer the car due to loss of
downforce on one side.
There is so much torsional twist in the crankshaft (up to 20 degrees at
the big end of the track) that sometimes cam lobes are ground offset from
front to rear to try and re-phase the valve timing closer to synchronization
with the pistons.
The car will be going over 60mph before the rear wheels cross the start
line, 300 inches.
The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked
for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated US
$1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record
is 4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top
speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the
run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta).
Putting all of this into perspective:
You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter "twin-turbo" powered
Corvette Z06 (or blown Viper). Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel drags
ter is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass.
You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through
the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest
200 mph. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment.
The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but
you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3
seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish
line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him.
Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph
and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed
you within a mere 1320 foot long race course.
now this is what i was trying to say a while back , i knew this was coming from talking with cruz and NHRA.
http://www.nhra.com/story/2009/11/4/...dregon-racing/
"The combination tested with Cruz Pedregon’s team included a single magneto, one less clutch disc, and a smaller fuel pump"
"NHRA will work with Cruz Pedregon Racing to schedule more testing during the off-season. In addition, NHRA will continue to work with Tim Wilkerson and his team on the combination tested earlier in the season, which included decreasing displacement, use of a smaller-capacity fuel pump, decrease in percentage overdrive in the blower, a change on the rear-end gear ratios, and the use of 90 percent nitromethane"
yuppers, but why the heck are they stuck on the 90% figure???? Maybe if you get some of the timing and supercharger pressure out of the engine the nitro isn't as letal with the parts???? Where the heck is Jerry to straighten me out on this anyway?????:LOL::LOL::LOL: Hope he isn't AWOL or anything!!!!:eek::eek:
You mean Don Garbage,lol. Don knows nothin.Quote:
Originally Posted by NTFDAY
I dont think that will do much for drag racing. IMO , they need to limit teams and sponsors. How can a new comer compete with the field dominated by 2 teams , there no chance at all. You can slow them down all you want but when a team is dominating the class their dominating the class. If your going 50MPH or 300MPH theres no room to get in. Its been that way for years now. The teams and NHRA have lock them selves in and locked everyone else out.
Limiting teams and sponsors is going to do nothing to attract anyone to the Pro Classes.... until the amount of $$$$$ it takes to run a competitive car is reduced, better be happy having the multi car teams show up, not many others can afford to field a car...
Don Garlits knows nothing????? Hmmmmmm. Seems to have done fairly well as a racer......
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTruckDriver
Put your money where your mouth is, Garlits has forgotten more about drag racing than you'll ever know.
It was a inside joke , calm down. Hes done a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by NTFDAY
Inside joke??? Just who the heck is it you raced with that would possibly lead to a statement saying things like that about Garlits???? His accomplishments and innovations are legendary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Thanks, Dave You said it better than I could.
Ok.:):):):):)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
that's what I figured
ok:D:o:LOL:;):whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by dave severson
I'll take offense to your statement above! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTruckDriver
I think Don has forgotten more than you've ever known! :confused:
As far as limits are concerned, it's nothing new! I remember when Mark Martin and his wife "technically owned" the number 17 driven by Matt Kenseth. And even today did you know the "technically" Jeff Gordon owns the # 48 driven by Jimmie Johnson? So go ahead, add some team ownership limits, there are ways around that one! :rolleyes:
And you want Sponsor limits too!?!? How would you expect guys to pay for all this? I think you need to think this one over some more!
Well some thing has to be done to level the playing field. How does one go up against one of the "giants", you cant? For instance how many chassis can you take, complete cars? Most probably have about 4 complete cars and 8 complete motors and 6-8 18 wheelers. Is that neccesary? Hell if you cant do it with 2 chassis you should go home for the weekend. Not be allowed to keep throwing cars in to win. That takes a lot of the challenge out of the game. The challenge is to make sure that your 1 car is consistant enough to take every one out.Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Its just turned into a gaint money monster and pretty much has locked everyone out and everyone in. Heck its even predictable and anyone that knows fuel cars knows they are a long way from predictable. heck I havent paid attention to drag racing in years , it just got boring. I do love the older stuff though with a passion.
As far as Don goes well I have seen better and there is better ,even though he has done a lot. He just dont do it for me.
the nick name don garbage goes back along ways thats all i know. but i have this reasoning about me,
unless someone has ripped me off or pissed me off, what the hell do i care what he does!?
[QUOTE=BigTruckDriver;368804]Well some thing has to be done to level the playing field. How does one go up against one of the "giants", you cant?
The challenge is to make sure that your 1 car is consistant enough to take every one out.
Its just turned into a gaint money monster and pretty much has locked everyone out and everyone in.
heck I havent paid attention to drag racing in years , it just got boring. I do love the older stuff though with a passion.QUOTE]
Level field was supposed to be the same size engine, same size tire and same weight cars. Now we also have to control aerodynamics. How much more can you do? In the Top Fuel classes, they almost all run the same engine. In Pro Stocks it all comes down to 3 or 4 engines that everyone is using. How much more level can it be?
Is it really more about some owner having deeper pockets so he/they needs to be reined in? I remember when John Force started a second team and they were successful. Then a third and now a fourth! Other teams were actually created to beat Force at his own game! I think it was good for the sport at the time.
Yet, it still comes back to the owner who can sign a sponsor up! He who has the most money wins! Ask around and see how many people despise Jack Rousch for putting together 5 cup teams! Not to mention the other teams he runs. It's incredible that he could/can do it and should he be penalized for it? I don't think so. IHMO.
I don't have the answer for sure! If I did I'd be kicking Jack Rousch off the mountain! :LOL: It always was and always will be about money, it takes a bunch of it to be at the top and to stay there.
I don't think I'll ever find auto racing boring. When that day comes I'll have to run out into the traffic! **):LOL:
Cutting the sponsor's would be very counterproductive!!!!! Got to have sponsors to make a racing program even possible!!! I'm really anxious to hear the results of the tests they did with the small blowers, single mags, and the other things to lower the power... If you lower the power you lessen the parts breakage...If you lessen the parts breakage then racing becomes more affordable.... Then how many cars a team has could concievably become secondary to the main issue of making the best 3 or 4 qualifying passes you can put together to even make the field!!!! And, like Jerry said in a previous post---go back to a 32 car field!!!! Just say for instance that through whatever means they cut the horsepower of a top fuel car in half!!!! They'd still be in the 4's, and think how much more affordable a 4 second car is vs. a 3 second car!!!!! When's the last time some no name local type team snuck into a Pro Class on their home track and actually went a couple rounds?????
Hey, that sounds good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
how can NHRA hope to attract sponsership when a supposed professional raceing searies gets bumped on tv by a bunch of discusting children playing a one ball sport whos bigest attraction is catching them spitting on the ground
I no longer even try to watch NHRA
I find this thread really interesting, guys. Are we just missing the good old days? I'll go out on a limb here, but it would be safe to say that "American Graffiti" has got to be in the top 5 movie list of most if not #1 favorite here. And most of us are living the "life" in some way, still.
As for pro racing... never gave it a thought. Like when I learned to ski after age 50... never gave the Olympics a thought. And an afternoon of softball never got me thinking about being in the big October Show.
Drag racing has been the one thing still available to the ordinary guy. We watch "All Out", right? Not seeing big bucks there. I've been participating in ANRA events here in SoCal. Nostalgia racing... brackets, gas classes, open wheel and eliminator classes 1,2,and 3. Lots of fun, and still affordable. Expensive yes, but still within reach. It seems to me that the thrill is still there and any of us can jump in. Who cares what those pro guys are doing on TV anyway?
Well, I for one do care what happens in the Pro Classes!!!! They're the best of the best and have brought about many innovations that trickle down to us class and bracket racers!!!!
My point is that the price is killing the size of the field, and IMO what's bad for a National Event is eventually going to be bad at our local tracks!!!! I'd like to see a few more butts in the seats at our local track so maybe we can be racing for more then what us racers put in the pot at the back gate!!!!
Better racing and larger fields in the Pro ranks is going to make for better TV, and better TV is going to get more people interested in drag racing and maybe, just maybe they might choose to get involved locally as a racer, crewman, or weekly spectator!!!!
I would also venture to say that there is any number of folks on here besides just me who would love to take a shot at a Pro Class---and making it more affordable makes it a bit more possible....
Another consideration--and for me some first hand experience--when an oil company (or whatever) puts their name on a Pro car, in some instance their local distributors are encouraged to put their distributorship name on a local drag car....and a bit of that sponsorship $$$$$ comes down our way!!!!!
Of course, Dave. I do not dispute what you say. I just want to put a little silver lining in the cloud. Unfortunately, so many things are out of the control of an individual. However, drag racing is one of those things that the little guy can still participate in. Maybe the bigger point is, how to bring the next generation in? If the pro ranks seem to be far out of reach, then the grass roots movement may be the way to go. The future "Pro Racer" has to come from somewhere. Those big money guys just might price themselves out of a job.