Hopefully when I get done it will look something like this.
Hopefully when I get done it will look something like this.
Just a thought. When someone asks for opinions, they're just likely to get some.Quote:
. . . people telling me to do this and do that . . .
I didn't post that. I like the opinions. It gives me alot of options.
Zak
Well, whatever you do, make sure you update the brakes and suspension and make it compatible with today's speeds and the amount of cars on the road today...... Not fun to slide your pride and joy into another car, or on it's roof in the ditch because it won't stop or handle right....... If you're planning on driving it at all in traffic, it would be just a matter of time til somebody put their grille all the way into your backseat cuz the 216 will only go 50 and the rest of the traffic in Texas seems to be running at least 70......
I probably would try not to drive on the highway. It would be a car I might drive to school every once in a while. Most of the time it will probably sit in my garage and look nice.
Zak
Zak, if I came across as a little short this morning, it was because everyone on here, save one person, is telling you the 216's are not the most wise choice, and you are still insisting you want to go ahead with it. Sure, it is your car, and if you want to put a Briggs and Straton lawnmower engine in it, that is your right. But at some point you have to say to yourself (A) Why did General Motors and everybody else who had splash lubrication and babbitt bearings get away from them, and (B) Why are all these guys who have been around the block a few times telling me to go to a later engine?
If you are looking for a learning car, this could be a great one. You can learn to pound out dents, fix brakes and suspension, and the myriad of other tasks you will be doing. That is great, but a large number of cars that are started from projects, like yours, never see the road, because the builder gets in over his/her head, and loses interest .
As for the Vette and TransAm, I wasn't dumping on you for owning them, but when you said "I think that I'm off to a good start with the cars I've already had. I had two cars before I ever even got my permit.", it hit me that unless a 15 year old dropped out of school and got a full time job, those cars were probably gifts.
You asked for advise, and sometimes that advise is contrary to what we want to hear. If the members of this forum didn't care, they would just feed you a ration and blow you off as some 15 year old who doesn't have a clue. The fact you got so many responses to your post shows that is not the case.
Good luck with your car.
Don
My cars weren't gifts. My parents told me if I raised 1/3 of the $ for the Trans Am they would help me purchase it. After that it was up to me to by parts. I spent over $700 on parts alone after I purchased the car. I put more money in that car than they did. I am mainly using this car to learn how to beat out dents, patch holes, and do basic body work the way it used to be done. This car is an oppurtunity to learn the skills.
Zak
I know they (216) aren't the best choice to put in there, but it's worth it to me to put it back to original.
I want the original engine because if I ever want to sell it it will be original. Can you get a title on a car if it doesn't have one? It's been in the pasture for 25+ years and it doesn't have a title.
Tha depends on your state. Go to you motor vehicle place and check with them.
Call Texas DOT and tell them your story.
If you have other questions regarding lost or destroyed titles, please call our Vehicle Titles and Registration help line at (512) 465-7611.
Thanks for the help.
Zak
www.chevsofthe40s.com sells rods that are machined for regular bearings.Quote:
Originally Posted by 76GMC1500
these motors actully were designed and originally built by Briggs and stratton actully :LOL: the keys to my '51 Chevrolet have Briggs&Stratton engine co written right on them, both Have GM written on the fronts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
also, if he wants original but a little more power, a 1950-1952 235 uses the same valve cover and looks exactly the same with no diffrences. both the 216 and early 235 use a low oil preassure, 15 - 30 PSI where as a full preassure 235 runs 20- 60 PSI, so it's not like there compleatly splash oiling.
Matt,
The rod bearings were splash only, as I remember. And you still have to deal with the mains.
that's true. I think they have a service for that tho, never looked at there engine section very close as I don't need anything. my babbit 235 I6 runs great so hopefully I won't have to worry about any of that, any time soonQuote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
they could be. I know there is an oil pump, what the pump oils I'm not shure.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
Thanks for the replies, Zak.
Matt, unless I've gone totally deep into Oltimerz', that 235 in your car with the powerglide should have insert bearings and should have an oil pump, and the oil pressure gauge should go all the way to 60 PSI, not the 30 PSI max that the splash and babbit bearing 216 had as it's top reading (and the 216 never got that high, believe me).Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt167
I really think he is going about this rebuild backwards, and I realize most of that is due to age and inexperience. The engine is the LEAST of his concerns now, he doesn't even have the car home or know if he can get a title to it yet.
My advice would be to stop this relentless search for a 216 and concentrate on the two items I mentioned above, then, when you get those straightened out, concentrate on the frame, running gear, and body, THEN worry about what engine you are going to use.
This whole thing reminds me of a T bucket we bought about 5 years ago. The frame and suspension were an abortion, the body was rough, but the kid we bought it from had about $ 4000.00 worth of chrome windshields, shifters, wheels, tires, and other "goodies" packed in his bedroom. He finally got discouraged and sold us the whole shooting match for $ 1500.00. He should have been getting the grunt work out of the way first, but his youthfulness steered him to buy the pretty stuff first.
It's like remodeling an old house that is falling down and making your first purchases a hot tub and swimmimg pool. Fix the foundation first.
Trouble is, I don't think Zak will heed any of the advise he has asked for.
Don
"Trouble is, I don't think Zak will heed any of the advise he has asked for."
Don, your wisdom is exceeded only by your good looks. :LOL:
I understand what everyone is saying, I just thought if I can find one for cheap I would go ahead and get it. The first thing I planned on fixing was all of the body work then doing the interior. When I get all of that done I was going to mess with the engine.
Zak
Don, your wisdom is exceeded only by your good looks.
Thanks Tech, but if good looks are a requirement for being wise, I'm really in trouble.:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
And Zak, nobody is trying to beat up on you, but think about this. What if you find and buy that 216 only to find out the car is untitleable (is that a word?) then you will be stuck with a 216 that is good for an anchor.
There is a reason experienced car builders do it in logical steps. We've all made mistakes that have cost us time and money, if we can save you from making some of the same mistakes, that is all we are trying to do.
Don
Thanks for helping. I don't think getting a tiltle for the car will be very hard. Like I said the car has been sitting in my Grandpa's pasture for 30+ years. It was dumped there in the late 70's??? My Grandfather owns the land, so I guess that makes him the owner of the car since it was there when he bought the land. I think all I have to do is fill out an application for a lost title.
Zak
Gotta add my 2 centavos here:
The most common mistake made in the hot rodding hobby (or in any hobby for that matter) is jumping in without first being realistic. I've done it, we've all done it.....we let our dreams comingle with reality and we start a project with no chance for completion. Swap meets and Auto Trader ads are full of good intended projects that are only partially done.
Be realistic: It will take at least $20,000 cash to get this car running. Twenty grand IF you and your relatives work for free. I'm guessing that the windows are broken, the tires/wheels are gone, the gas tank is rusted out, the chrome is shot, the trim missing or unuseable, the interior is probably a pack rat hotel, and the cloth-covered wiring is frayed.....and the engine/tranny is gone. That's why it was drug to the ditch in the first place...it was shot. Twenty grand. Minimum. Dont spout the B.S. about scrounging parts, etc. We've all used that line too. You might scrounge some stuff but the rest will cost.
Be realistic: This wasnt your grandfather's car. It was dumped on his property before he bought it. What is your connection to the car? If you got your first sex in the front seat, it might have sentimental value. If you married her, it will not. Spending all the time plus the $20 grand isnt a good deal, not matter what you learn from the experience. Take part of the money and buy a 1948 Chev from someone who already hiked this trail and is ready to dump his dream.....nightmares are dreams, too.
Be realistic: Are you a body man? A painter? An engine builder? A chassis man? Learning is good but it takes time. Dont try to build the Empire State building on your first try.....and dont think you are going to learn the right way and do it with Harbor Freight crappy tools. Look at real pros...their tools are not el cheapo Chinese junk. OOPS, add $20 grand for tools.
Be realistic: get a car that is running. Fix the brakes first. Tinker with the motor. Do some work on the shocks, suspension, etc. Learn about the wiring, especially the wiring. Try some body work if you feel brave. If you start with a shell of a car on your first try, you'll be overwhelmed and will never have it completed.
Be realistic.
We have all done it.....dont toss good money into a hopeless cause.
mike in tucson
Thanks for the reply. I kind of wanted to use this car to learn to do body work and stuff like that. If I can do all the body work that's when I would maybe start putting money into it. It would just be a project I would work on when I'm at his house. I just hate to see old cars sit and rust when someone could do something with it. You all are right it may never see the road, but I'll still work on it anyway. Here's what's left on the car.
90% Original Chrome Trim In Good Shape
Complete Shell-Unrusted, Nice Solid Body
Dash, Door Handles (Interior/Exterior)
All Chrome Bumpers In Good Shape
Chrome Grill In Good Shape
Seat Frames
Floor Pans Are All There With No Rust
Zak
I don't know, could be. I thought the first year for a full preassure 235 was '53. mine looks just like a 216, with the 2 bolt valve cover and all.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldf100fordman
Just a thought. YOUR guesses and what YOU think it takes to get a title might not agree with what TEXDOT thinks it takes to get a title. Before you do anything, call them. If you get someone who doesn't seem to know, ask for a supervisor.Quote:
My Grandfather owns the land, so I guess that makes him the owner of the car since it was there when he bought the land. I think all I have to do is fill out an application for a lost title.
That's what I planned on doing. If they dumped it 30 years ago I doubt they want it now. If anyone has an opinion on this topic please let me know. I'm guessing I can just get a lost title for the car, but what do I know.
Zak
Mike in Tucson brings up some very good points, and so do you Zak, about wanting to save this hulk from rusting away to nothing. That is very noble, and what we rodders and restorers try to do. But there are two things (at least 2) that you have to consider:
1) This particular car will cost far more to restore than it will ever be worth.
2) A project that starts out as a body that has been sitting in a ditch for that long has more serious issues to deal with than body and interior. Every suspension bushing and component is going to have to be refurbished and/or replaced. It doesn't make sense to make the body look nice and then start redoing the frame and running gear. Do it the other way around.
You can find these, or similar cars very reasonable on Ebay, in running, or near running condition (we passed up a very clean one at Daytona last year for $ 2500 because it wasn't our cup of tea, but the owner was really ready to deal, and it ran.)
Just trying to help.
Don
I wanted to start with the body first because it won't cost me anything but time. I'm only 15 so I don't always have cash. That's one of the reasons I want to work on this car. I Got It For Free!!!
Zak
That stinks. Someone on Ebay has a 216, but they are from up north. They are selling it for $10. I wish someone in Texas had something like that. If they did it would be mine.
Zak
I think I am done with this thread. Feel like I am on a runaway train.:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Don
Step 1--get a title
Step 2--Don't worry what step two is until you complete step 1
Just a thought, I wouldn't waste a dime on a 216 or a 235---Neither one were any good when they were new..... Get something late model for an engine and at least build something you have a chance of getting some of your money back when you're tired of it.....Trust me, you will get tired of it.......
I know what you all are saying. The motor isn't big enough, it doesn't have enough power, the car isn't worth messing with, and it will cost me way too much money. I'm not just ignoring you all. I understand. It's just it was free and I don't have alot of cash so that's what I can afford at the moment. Down the road I may decide to take out the 216 and put a 350 in it. I just don't know. I got it for free and it's just something for me to play around with. I may never even buy an engine for it. It might sit at my Grandpa's house forever. Who know's.
Thanks for your time and responses,
Zak
Do what Dave says. If you dont have a title, you may as well but a
tin bucket in the yard and drop money into it.....same thing except that you
can take the bucket back to the house and dump the money out.
Old cars take money. You say you have a tight budget. If so, either practice
your bondo work on it or buy a brick of .22 shells and use it for a target. Limit yourself to $100 total before you have a title IN HAND.
Dont shoot at the tires with a .22
Someone already had the bright idea to shoot it, but it's not a .22. They shot it with what looks like a 9mm. I think they shot it like 10 times. Like you were saying I mainly want to practice body work on it. Beating out dents, bondo, welding, etc. Just curious. What would happen if I shot the tire with a .22?
Zak
How do I go about getting a title for the car?
Get the vin number off the car, contact the Tx. DOT and or the Vehicle Registration folks at your courthouse and see what the procedure is to obtain a title for an abandoned vehicle. They should be able to tell you the procedure and documentation required to obtain a title. Now you're thinking, get the title in hand before you spend a dime on the car.
I went through that titling exercise several years ago on a derelict '65 Corvair Monza that I pumped entirely too much money into. It can be done in Texas, Zak, but get ready for a hassle. My situation was complicated by the fact that I bought the car in Iowa and dragged it to Texas to restore it.
I'm sure requirements (and procedures) have changed since I butted heads with the law, but, as I said, It can be done.
I think I mentioned this in an old posting, but do you know what engine the 1953 and 1954 Corvettes had in them? A 235 six cylinder. Respects to our friend Dave Severson, but I LIKE 'EM!
Jim