Timing advance barely moving

I finally got the car on the road tonight for a test drive, The engine really has no power, and the advance on the crank pulley only moves about 5 degree's.
The engine will idle, and will start up easy. I am running KRE Aluminum heads, and a Crower 60919 Hyd. cam. The motor was completey taken apart to resleave a cylinder, and I had the machine shop, reinstall the cam and crank. The cam was set to a 108 degree centerline, per Jeff Kaufmann, Crower say's 109, but I listened to the Pontiac engine guru. I had some trouble getting the lash correct, but the rattling from the rockers has pretty muched stopped....1/3 lash at this point. With more lash it rattled alot more and at 3/4 lash the engine rocked harshly in the engine bay. So I backed it off.

Any idea's?
Cam installed wrong?
Timing gears off......Timing set at 15 degree initial, 15 degree bushing, where it was last year and really liked it with the big heads.
MSD digital, blaster coil, Msd dizzy, with the vac. advance plugged off.
Any suggestions as to narrow down what is wrong? I have a good balancer with all the timing marks and it only went on one way. Lash way off? I triple checked it also....

what is the motor are we talking about, and what procedure did you use to set your lash at? When you turn the distributor rotor by hand (with the cap and rotor off) do the weights open, advance properly, might be stuck!

HEI distributor?

67 GTO. Pontiac 400, .030 over stroked to a 461.
I hand turned the engine until the exhaust valve started to open, then set the intake lash, I started with 1/2 turn lash. Then turned the crank until intake valve started to open, then set the exhaust lash. I did one cylinder at a time, or in a sense one valve at a time. The valve covers were rattling something bad, so then I tried them at 3/4 lash. The engine shook in the bay a bit, so I dropped it down till about a 1/3 lash. Smoother running but a bit of a choppy idle.
I'm thinking maybe something is off with the mechanical timing....
What happens if the cam is in fact degree correctly, but the timing gear on the cam is off a small bit, say one or two teeth?

No, MSD ready to run dizzy.

look at the springs in the dist you should be a light sliver and ligth blue or light sliver grab the rotor and see if you can move it be hand with cap off if it will not then the curve is sticky

Run with what Pat said. The timing advance is all in the distributor. The lack of advance needs to have attention within the distributor.

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Originally Posted by nitrowarrior

Run with what Pat said. The timing advance is all in the distributor. The lack of advance needs to have attention within the distributor.

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you know nitrowarrior my advance and my timming with the women has been off for years :whacked: what to do:LOL: :LOL:

I had a 70 GTO that i built a 455 for and if i remember to adjust the valves you just tightened them to 20 ft. pounds.

well i hope he is not running the stock studs .i doing one now and going bbc studs so i can set the preload right

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I hand turned the engine until the exhaust valve started to open, then set the intake lash, then turned the crank until intake valve started to open, then set the exhaust lash.

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That's probably why you had the clatter.

You should set the intake with the exhaust about 1/3 open, then set the exhaust when the intake is about 2/3 CLOSED.

Shouldn't have anything to do with the timing advance you're seeing, though.

O.K. Really stumped now.
I pulled the dizzy out and I triple checked it. The internals are working fine. Installed correctly.
The motor will only adavance 5 degree, no matter where I set it, 15, 20, 25.
I agree the the lash may be out a bit, but what would hinder the advance?
15 degree bushing. 1 light and 1 medium spring. MSD ready to run, with the vacume port plugged off, as I ran it last year.
Any suggestions?
In theory, if the cam was advanced correctly, but the timing gear on the cam was not installed with the dot's lining up, would this have an effect like this?
The cam was installed on a 108 deg. centerline. The motor seams dead, and is running very rich.
Thanks in advance.

Which way are the weights pointing in comparison to the rotation of the distributor? Cams don't limit or change timing unless you have a ton of slop in the chain.

Valve lash or the cam timing won't stop the distributor from advancing, the only thing that makes the distributor advance is rpm or vac.

is distributor specific for pontiac? they spin opposite of chevy so if you have a chevy dist with a pontiac gear it will never advance :confused:

how much work has been done to the heads sure the push rods are right length ? are you holding any valves off the seat are the marks line up on the timing set right did you check the cam for events ? for it not wanting to advance sounds like the dist is ok you may have it jack up just to keep it running have seen this when the lash is way off go back thru your firing order look at you wires make sure there not cross like 5and 7

Everything was a re - install. Nothing changed.
The dizzy is working, and I have the vac. advance port plugged off, so I ruled out vac being the cause. Double checked the wires.
The machine shop reinstalled the cam, crank, timing chain/gears. That's the only thing I didn't do, I assumed it was correct. I doubt the MSD dizzy crapped out sitting on the shelf waiting...maybe though.
Pat, going Poncho motor?
I keep coming back to the timing gear being off, and that also might explain the lash being off, then the dizzy not hitting right.

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Originally Posted by Rugratman

Everything was a re - install. Nothing changed.
The dizzy is working, and I have the vac. advance port plugged off, so I ruled out vac being the cause. Double checked the wires.
The machine shop reinstalled the cam, crank, timing chain/gears. That's the only thing I didn't do, I assumed it was correct. I doubt the MSD dizzy crapped out sitting on the shelf waiting...maybe though.
Pat, going Poncho motor?
I keep coming back to the timing gear being off, and that also might explain the lash being off, then the dizzy not hitting right.

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no why would i do that my BBC work just fine for over 27 years:3dSMILE: no way would i put a ponch back in my GTO it never had one very long i think 67or68 the 389 crap out then a 400 it all been big block or small block chevys from late sixty till now but that just me :D i am building and maching two ponch right now one 400 and a 455 just got the custom ground cam for the 400 it will run very good

I'm pretty sure that is a sin.

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Originally Posted by Rugratman

I'm pretty sure that is a sin.

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well that is what you think :D i know better:LOL: