302 swap or rebuild?

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05-10-2012, 03:48 AM
billy zz

302 swap or rebuild?

swap or rebuild?
my 1981 ford 302 has the following symptoms,and my experienced mechanic buddies say it is piston slap.
starts and idles fine
at about 45-50 mph i get a tapping from the #4 cylinder that gets louder the faster i go.
i just dont trust this engine with god only knows how many miles on it.
keeping in mind that i am no sort of mechanic.
would it make more financial sense to simply buy a different engine and swap it out rather than jump in head first and try my hand at rebuilding a 31 year old engine with an unknown past?
and if a swap is the way to go.
just how difficult would it be?
05-10-2012, 04:52 AM
MP&C

A buddy of mine built a 331 stroker for his Fairlane build when he had plans for a resto-mod car. One weekend at the drag strip and his newly built engine was shelved for a BBF. He wound up selling the 331 for about 2/3 of what the rebuild cost him. I'd look around and see what you can find in a similar scenario, I'm quite sure there are changes in projects that will make engines available for cheap.
05-10-2012, 05:28 AM
billy zz

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP&C

A buddy of mine built a 331 stroker for his Fairlane build when he had plans for a resto-mod car. One weekend at the drag strip and his newly built engine was shelved for a BBF. He wound up selling the 331 for about 2/3 of what the rebuild cost him. I'd look around and see what you can find in a similar scenario, I'm quite sure there are changes in projects that will make engines available for cheap.

i know the following will go against the grain of any hotrodder but.
my bone stock 302 is more than enough power for me in this 2300 lb. car
and i dont want to have to mod anything for a swap.
this fenderless rig has everything exposed so there will be no engine access problems.
i guess the next step is write down the numbers on the block and make real sure the engine i buy will bolt right up to the c6 tranny.
05-10-2012, 05:32 AM
rspears

What's your timetable? Are you wanting to minimize your downtime, or is having your ride out of commission for month or more during the good weather OK? If you're in a hurry and wanting reliability buying a crate engine from a reliable source is probably your best bet, but you're going to drop around $4K to get a "built" engine. Like MP&C says, you might also be able to find someone wanting to upgrade, but then do you truly know what you're getting? Lots of kids out there who think they can simply throw a new crank in their old block to make a stroker and then pass it off on someone as "rebuilt". Also lots of "crate engines" on the market with rattle can rebuilds (pull, power wash, paint & sell). The old adage, "Let the Buyer Beware" is especially true for engines.
05-10-2012, 05:47 AM
Dave Severson

Heck, you'd be money and time ahead to just get a rebuilt from a parts store, they usually come with a good warranty and would be the quickest way to do it. Couple of the parts stores here sell them for around $1,000.00 exchange with a 1 year warranty. Most of the junkyard stuff is going to be old with a bunch of miles....Ford started putting the Modular 4.6's in about '92...The Mustang's had the 302 for a few years longer but then you're into an engine that's probably had a tough life already!!!!
05-10-2012, 05:49 AM
billy zz

Quote:

Originally Posted by rspears

What's your timetable? Are you wanting to minimize your downtime, or is having your ride out of commission for month or more during the good weather OK? If you're in a hurry and wanting reliability buying a crate engine from a reliable source is probably your best bet, but you're going to drop around $4K to get a "built" engine. Like MP&C says, you might also be able to find someone wanting to upgrade, but then do you truly know what you're getting? Lots of kids out there who think they can simply throw a new crank in their old block to make a stroker and then pass it off on someone as "rebuilt". Also lots of "crate engines" on the market with rattle can rebuilds (pull, power wash, paint & sell). The old adage, "Let the Buyer Beware" is especially true for engines.

downtime isnt a big deal to me right now.
but reliability is.
i just DO NOT trust this 31 year old engine with an unkown past
i got this engine for free in the 1st place so in my mnd i wont cry too much over saving up for a crate engine with a good warranty from a respected source.
05-10-2012, 06:07 AM
billy zz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Heck, you'd be money and time ahead to just get a rebuilt from a parts store, they usually come with a good warranty and would be the quickest way to do it. Couple of the parts stores here sell them for around $1,000.00 exchange with a 1 year warranty. Most of the junkyard stuff is going to be old with a bunch of miles....Ford started putting the Modular 4.6's in about '92...The Mustang's had the 302 for a few years longer but then you're into an engine that's probably had a tough life already!!!!

just go to NAPA or such huh?
i didnt think of that.
see fellas
this is why i come here to ask questions.
this is where all my bestest and smartest pals hang out.;)
05-10-2012, 06:11 AM
34_40

You can check out Jeg's and Summit, even Speedway on line also...
05-10-2012, 06:27 AM
rspears

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy zz

i know the following will go against the grain of any hotrodder but.
my bone stock 302 is more than enough power for me in this 2300 lb. car
and i dont want to have to mod anything for a swap.
this fenderless rig has everything exposed so there will be no engine access problems.
i guess the next step is write down the numbers on the block and make real sure the engine i buy will bolt right up to the c6 tranny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Heck, you'd be money and time ahead to just get a rebuilt from a parts store, they usually come with a good warranty and would be the quickest way to do it. Couple of the parts stores here sell them for around $1,000.00 exchange with a 1 year warranty. Most of the junkyard stuff is going to be old with a bunch of miles....Ford started putting the Modular 4.6's in about '92...The Mustang's had the 302 for a few years longer but then you're into an engine that's probably had a tough life already!!!!

Billy, given that you're happy with a stock I'd say Dave is on target. I had used Speedway as a check point, and Summit is about the same - cheapest SBF is in the $3500 range. NAPA is usually a lot better on warranty issues than some of the others, or around here O'Reilly's is pretty good, too. I'd say you have a plan!!
05-10-2012, 06:51 AM
billy zz

coolbeans
my wife wants this done because she is afraid it will blow up and kill me.
and besides
who am i to argue her out of a new engine?
05-10-2012, 06:58 AM
jerry clayton

Wait just a minute----

how do you know its #4????????????

Since the engine is exposed----pull the pan and check/replace bearings --if you find the bearings OK, remove the head and check that piston---you can do bearings for less than $$$$TAX$$$$ on a rebuild and a piston less than shipping-----

There ain't no reason to spend thousands of dollars on something to just puts around in----------
05-10-2012, 01:33 PM
billy zz

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Wait just a minute----

how do you know its #4????????????

Since the engine is exposed----pull the pan and check/replace bearings --if you find the bearings OK, remove the head and check that piston---you can do bearings for less than $$$$TAX$$$$ on a rebuild and a piston less than shipping-----

There ain't no reason to spend thousands of dollars on something to just puts around in----------

i know it is 4 because i was killing each cylinder one at a time and the noise stopped at the 4.

thank you all for the valuable advice.
i hate to say it but
with my spinal arthritis after completely screwing my back up moving furniture.
anything that gets done to this car.
i am not going to be able to do.
that means i am actually going to have to hire a mechanic.
i cant believe i just said that.
05-10-2012, 02:06 PM
rspears

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy zz

i know it is 4 because i was killing each cylinder one at a time and the noise stopped at the 4.
thank you all for the valuable advice. i hate to say it but with my spinal arthritis after completely screwing my back up moving furniture anything that gets done to this car i am not going to be able to do. that means i am actually going to have to hire a mechanic. i cant believe i just said that.

If that's the case then Jerry's approach should put you money ahead, provided you've got a good mechanic that's not out to get into your pocket as much as he can. But for improved reliability a replacement engine from NAPA or the like would be an easy task on the open car. Should be able to swap it out in a few hours, I would think.
05-10-2012, 03:44 PM
jerry clayton

Well you said it started at 45-50 so I was just wondering----

Before you buy an engine , have a wrench pull the pan and check the bearings---start with #4 ---if the crank is ok, put rod and main bearings, new standard oil pump--probably can get those parts for $100
05-10-2012, 05:20 PM
billy zz

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Well you said it started at 45-50 so I was just wondering----

Before you buy an engine , have a wrench pull the pan and check the bearings---start with #4 ---if the crank is ok, put rod and main bearings, new standard oil pump--probably can get those parts for $100

i will try that.
thanks man
08-12-2012, 05:25 AM
billy zz

rod bearing trashed intself and screwed up the cam as well.
when we opened up up we were amazed it ran.
so i just bought a replacement 302 from checker.
3 year unlimited mile warranty.
i am not and dont know any machinists so it was cheaper to just buy a new one.
08-12-2012, 06:06 AM
34_40

A sound decision Billy! I wonder how you're going like all the added power! I gotta feeling there will be a big smile in New Mexico in the very near future! LOL..
08-12-2012, 06:34 AM
billy zz

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34_40

A sound decision Billy! I wonder how you're going like all the added power! I gotta feeling there will be a big smile in New Mexico in the very near future! LOL..

i called in some favors so i am only out about $500 for a new engine installed ;)
08-12-2012, 08:01 AM
36 sedan

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy zz

i hate to say it but
with my spinal arthritis after completely screwing my back up moving furniture.
anything that gets done to this car.
i am not going to be able to do.
that means i am actually going to have to hire a mechanic.
i cant believe i just said that.

Check with your local Automotive Trade School or even your local High School Auto Shop, they will sometimes take on a project like yours to help teach the students.
08-12-2012, 03:16 PM
34_40

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy zz

i called in some favors so i am only out about $500 for a new engine installed ;)

Ya can't beat that with a stick!
08-13-2012, 04:33 AM
billy zz

Quote:

Originally Posted by 34_40

Ya can't beat that with a stick!

you know how it is.
you help this guy out here and that one there.
and then when YOU are in a fix.
guys step up to the plate to help.

it's a nice system. ;)
08-13-2012, 04:50 AM
34_40

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy zz

you know how it is. you help this guy out here and that one there. and then when YOU are in a fix. guys step up to the plate to help.
it's a nice system. ;)

Sounds like you've surrounded yourself with a good group of guys.:)

And it is nice when it all comes together like that.:)