encourage bbc 509ci

Hello guys

i build big block 509ci, 10.3 compress,
rear gear(stock impala67) - 2.73
th400 with stock converter(stock stall speed)
engine idle^550-650rpm
I have a manifold Edelbrock 7161 range 1500-6000rpm, oval port, Dual plane.
heads: Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 604519
carb: edelbrock 750cfm

when i start - i think that i have small block, wheel not slip. but I dont like hi rpm and camshaft 3000-7000rpm, I only want medium power, because i used car on street every day.

today I have a camchaft COMP Cams 11-407-8(range idle-4600rpm, lsa110, Dur050 Lift: 200/206, 0.510 int./0.510 exh.

i whant buy new camshaft: edelbrock 2263 . Range: 1,500-6,500, Dur050 Lift: 248 int./256 exh, LSA112, 0.629 int./0.643 exh.

Maybe this Cam aggressive ?

WHAT you say?
1. whats will idle?
2. i must replace trans converter? which? stall speed 1800, 2000, 2500?

Vacuum carb is ok
https://youtu.be/-KnqWNmny_M


Vacuum distributor is working
https://youtu.be/8Ruh-pAInJE

Alex, you have made the same mistakes that tens of thousands of other fellows have made when it comes to increasing the performance of their vehicles. You have failed to view your car as a system. You cannot change the camshaft in a motor without changing the torque converter and rear gears to compliment the cam's characteristics. Matter of fact, most fellows would do well to leave the motor alone and change the torque converter and rear gears. I have always championed doing that first and leaving the motor stock until you see if a converter and gears will give a fellow the performance they are looking for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

Hello guys
i build big block 509ci, 10.3 compress,
rear gear(stock impala67) - 2.73

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Wrong gears. Needs 3.42:1 / 3.55:1 with limited slip.

[QUOTE=Alex-grand;573239] th400 with stock converter(stock stall speed) engine idle^550-650rpm [QUOTE]

Wrong torque converter. Needs 10" diameter, 2000 / 2500 stall unit. Purchase a true 10" converter, not a 12" unit with the fins bent over. Here is an example of what I would use.....10" that stalls about 1,000 rpm's over stock, with anti-ballooning plate and furnace brazed fins. I'm not saying to use this exact converter, just showing you the type of converter that I might use if I wanted a little more power for street driving. Assuming the stock converter stalls at somewhere around 1200 to 1400, then this unit would stall at around 2200 to 2400, which should work well on the street.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-240901/overview/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

I have a manifold Edelbrock 7161 range 1500-6000rpm, oval port, Dual plane.

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This is the correct intake manifold for a performance street machine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

Edelbrock Performer RPM Cylinder Heads 604519
carb: edelbrock 750cfm

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750 CFM will not make maximum power with a 509 cubic inch motor, but should provide enough volume to make good power on the street.

[QUOTE=Alex-grand;573239] today I have a camchaft COMP Cams 11-407-8(range idle-4600rpm, lsa110, Dur050 Lift: 200/206, 0.510 int./0.510 exh. [QUOTE]
This is a great street cam for a motor with about 9.0:1 static compression ratio. You are using it with a static compression ratio that is far too high and I would suspect that your cylinder pressure is through the roof. If not operated on very high octane fuel, I would think that you would be detonating the motor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

i whant buy new camshaft: edelbrock 2263 . Range: 1,500-6,500, Dur050 Lift: 248 int./256 exh, LSA112, 0.629 int./0.643 exh.

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If you think the car is a pooch now, just go ahead and install more cam with the stock gears and converter. You won't even want to drive it any more. The camshaft is not a stand-alone part in the motor. It requires all the other parts and systems in the motor and on the car to be coordinated to work with a certain cam timing. For all you other fellows who are reading this thread, start at the back of your vehicle, with gears, then converter, before you ever change one part in or on the motor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

Maybe this Cam aggressive ?

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You don't need that much more cam, you need more gear and more converter. With more gear and more converter, the motor could use more cam, but not as much as 248/256, more like 220 or 225 to match up with the static compression ratio a little better.
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Techinspector1 thanks.
This is a very detailed answer for me.

1. I buy torq converter About which you spoke. (TCI 10”, 2000/2500stall)

2. Change rear gear: example 3.55 Attachment 68844 or full set Attachment 68845 ?

3. Camshaft : maybe Crane Cam 139611 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-139611
(lsa114, dura050 - 218/224, range 1400-5200)

I like that cam. The 114 degree lobe separation angle should provide excellent manifold vacuum for power brakes and the split duration will help scavenge the cylinders when using production iron heads, with their poor exhaust ports. 108 or 110 LSA would provide more low end power, but with correct gears and correct torque converter, you will have more low end power than you can control without more tire and more traction control.
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I will begin with replacement Rear gear and torq converter.

Replacement cams is next stage.
And what approximately will be idle on this camshaft(Crane)?

Idle should be very good, close to stock. This will be a very good combination of parts. :3dSMILE:
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This cam (Crane Cam 139611,
(lsa114, dura050 - 218/224, range 1400-5200) seldom happens on sale. What can he be replaced with if I don't find him?

Howards Cams are the least expensive good-quality camshafts that are available today, in my opinion. Here's some history on them....

ABOUT US
OVER 70 YEARS OF RACE WINNING PERFORMANCE!
The company was founded by Howard Johansen as Howards Power & Racing Equipment, as a manufacturer of racing cams in 1945. Howard and his wife retired in 1965 and turned the business over to his oldest son, Jerry, who ran the company until 1985. Jerry was considered one of the top engine turners of his day, and along with Don Madden, ran a series of “Howards Cams Rattler” and “Howards Cams Special” top fuel cars out of the shop as test beds for new products.

Howards Cams have always used on track experience to develop the most powerful designs. This includes early Top Fuel favorites driven by Jack Chrisman and Larry Dixon Sr. Today we have even a greater group of experienced racers in Circle Track, Drag Racing, Road Race, Mudd Bogg and Marine. Sportsman to Pro. We use all this input, plus the most advanced computer design software to design the most competitive race winning products.

In 1998 Howards Cams was on the move again to an all new, completely retooled facility in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. With the new facility came new products and a new name. Howards Cams & Racing Components. We started manufacturing precision American made forged steel connecting rods and crankshafts, along with billet main caps, forged 2618 aluminum pistons and numerous new camshaft profiles and valve train components.

From pioneers in drag racing and oval track to cutting edge marine development, Howards Cams is at the forefront of the industry.

So, this would be my first choice for your motor in a Howards grind....
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet
Adding "CL" to the front of the part number will add Howards roller tappets. ALWAYS BUY TAPPETS FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER WHO GRINDS YOUR CAMSHAFT. Mixing manufacturers of cams and tappets is a recipe for trouble, so you should be shopping for a Howards CL120245-12 cam and lifters kit. As I stated in a previous post, the 112 lobe separation angle will assist with manifold vacuum to support power brake operation more than a 110 or 108 angle camshaft would.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet

This cam should present no valve to piston clearance problems, but you will want to check closely anyway, upon trial fit assembly. Allow a minimum of 0.080" intake clearance and 0.100" exhaust clearance. (~2.0 mm / ~2.6 mm). Also check closely for spring coil bind. Adding the 5 spaces between coils at full valve lift should equal minimum 0.050" (~1.2 mm). If using stock type rocker arms, check for binding at the fulcrum point (arm to stud). Sometimes, longer slot rockers are necessary to prevent binding with higher lift cams. Find out exactly what springs are in your heads and convey that information to the Howards tech department so that you coordinate the cam with the proper springs.


Edelbrock, LLC Tech Department
2700 California Street, Torrance, CA 90503
Phone: 310-781-2222
Fax: 310-320-1187
Tech Line Only: 800-416-8628

Hours of Operation:
Monday-Friday 8:00 am - 5:00 pm PST

Tech Line Hours:
Monday-Thursday 7:00 am - 5:00 pm PST
Friday 7:00 am - 4:00 pm PST

https://howardscams.com/contact.html

Overview: If we assume that the stock torque converter, behind a stock 454, would stall at about 1400 rpm's, then we would figure that the new one would stall at about 1000 or more rpm's higher than that with a bigger motor, to a minimum of about 2400 rpm's. This is a perfectly acceptable street stall target and will put this Howards cam solidly into its power range by at least 600 rpm's. The cam begins making power at about 1800, so with the motor stalling the converter at about 2400 or a little higher, the motor will be "up on the cam" and you should be tearing the tires off the rear of the car from a standstill.

Finally, pay close attention to this tutorial about pushrod length......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5is9BsH5OU&t=165s

I've spent quite a lot of time today researching this combination for you and this is the best I can come up with. I'm wishing you the best of luck with your build.

Richard
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It is time to buy a camshaft.

I am afraid a little, think about Howard’s cams

Can I will be able to establish steady idling? ( smaller 1000)? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...make/chevrolet
(Howard’s cams 120245-12)
It’s not aggressive camshaft? Steady good idle?


Because : last year I installed edelbrock 2261 camshaft(range 1500-6500, lsa112)
Idle was 1100, The motor was as the loony, jumpy
I have removed this cam at once. But I remember that cam2261 give very good start)))

I won't have such problems with Howard’s 120245?

[IMG]https://b.radikal.ru/b42/1804/2e/0f17c41f7c18.jpg[/IMG]

And what this: fair idle ? And crisp throttle?
It’s a good parameter for everyday drive?

Yes, this CL120245-12 cam will make an excellent daily driver when paired with the proper torque converter. Install it straight up according to the cam card. Do not advance it or retard it.

First thing you'll want to do is to find top dead center so that you can begin experimenting with advancing the spark at the crank. I would use a degreed harmonic damper or a degree tape that will attach to your stock damper.

Begin with finding top dead center (explained below in the tech article) and begin advancing the spark a little at a time. You may find that this cam likes 14 or 16 or 18 or 20. But remember, as you dial more spark lead in at the crankshaft, you will have to reduce the lead that is added by centrifugal advance, so that you don't exceed about 38 degrees total advance.

You will get to the point where, as you continue to add initial lead in at the crank, the motor will begin bucking back against the starter. At that point, you will want to interrupt the hot line to the ignition coil and add a switch that you can use to switch off the spark to the plugs while you spin the motor up with the starter, then click the switch over to reinstate juice to the coil and begin making spark again. I think there are now automatic interrupters that can be wired into the ignition system, but I have never used one. Call the MSD tech line.

If it gets to a point where get yourself wrapped around all the following information about spark control, you will know more than 99% of hot rodders on the planet.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center
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I bought this camshaft(Howards) and torque converter(TCI 10'')
do I have to change lifters(Howards lifters)? because i have new Lunati 72331-16 Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Lifters(run about 5000 miles)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

I bought this camshaft(Howards) and torque converter(TCI 10'')
do I have to change lifters(Howards lifters)? because i have new Lunati 72331-16 Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Lifters(run about 5000 miles)

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I can answer that one. NEVER run used lifters on a new cam, period.

While I would never reuse old flat-tappet lifters (I be hard pressed to even recommend flat tappets – but that’s another post), I have and would recommend reusing rollers – with the caveat that they are serviceable. Roller lifters don’t generate a wear pattern in the same manner as flat-tappet lifters. GM dealers routinely reused factory lifters on a brand-new cams. If you’re building an existing roller motor, there is no reason to buy new lifters unless you just want to spend the money.

The lifters that you have are a first tier component and with 5K miles should be like new. They have the link-bar to keep things in the proper perspective. Just make sure they go back in the same side they came from – you don’t want to reverse direction that they’ve been rolling.

Several years ago I helped a young man with a real budget rebuild on a 350 for his pickup. The block was already prepared for roller ('87 or '88?) but was still running a flat-tappet cam. We bought 16 lifters, spider, push rods and rocker arms, and all the factory components from a U-Pull-It for $35. Used a new generic RV-cam from Sealed Power ground for 1500-4000 RPM. Soaked the lifters in oil for a few days and everything worked perfect. Granted, this was a real basic upgrade over stock, but certainly worth considering.

I installed cam and torque converter.
I like this combination.
Question: what’s the degree cam? Now I installed 12 degree (stroboscope)

Unsure what you are talking about. Don't know what you mean by 12 degrees stroboscope. Cam should be installed into the block according to the cam card that came with the cam, neither advanced nor retarded, but "straight up".
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Cam installed into the block according to the cam card.

What’s the ignition degree ?

I'm just making an assumption, but it seems to me that Alex says that he installed the cam per the instructions on the cam card, which would be straight up, no pre-load advance or retard; and then that he's set his initial timing at 12*BTDC using a timing light, which he is calling a stroboscope (strobe fires with ignition), which sounds good to me.

I may be totally off base, but that's my interpretation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

Cam installed into the block according to the cam card.
What’s the ignition degree ?

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12 degrees before top dead center ignition firing sounds close. You can try it at several different locations, 8, 10, 12, 14, and so forth. Just be careful not to exceed 38 degrees total, initial and centrifugal.
Here is an excellent article explaining vacuum advance that will aid you in dialing your motor in....
Begin reading at FACT AND FICTION CONCERNING VACUUM ADVANCE...
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rspears

I'm just making an assumption, but it seems to me that Alex says that he installed the cam per the instructions on the cam card, which would be straight up, no pre-load advance or retard; and then that he's set his initial timing at 12*BTDC using a timing light, which he is calling a stroboscope (strobe fires with ignition), which sounds good to me.

I may be totally off base, but that's my interpretation.

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Yes. Quite so

Quote:

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Originally Posted by techinspector1

Begin reading at FACT AND FICTION CONCERNING VACUUM ADVANCE...
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center

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I will study this moment.

Advise: how an easy way to adjust the carb edelbrock whether the gas analyzer is necessary at the same time?

Edelbrock carburetors have always been easy for me to dial in, as they were patterned after the famous Carter AFB carburetor and I have plenty of experience with them. The worst part of them is that you have to remove the lid to change main jets. Metering rods and shooters are easy enough though, and if you just follow the tune up procedures published by Edelbrock, it's a pretty easy task.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...ers-manual.pdf
Performance Carburetors and Accessories - Calibration Accessories - Edelbrock, LLC.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...caAryOEALw_wcB

What's the model number of your carb?

A gas analyzer would certainly make the job easier, eliminating multiple road tests.
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My carb edelbrock 1411 with electric choke

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

My carb edelbrock 1411 with electric choke

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That's fine. The Owner's Manual that I linked above will cover your carburetor. Please read through it thoroughly before you begin to dial in the carb. The #1411 Calibration Reference Chart / Primary Metering chart is on page 15.
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by techinspector1

Edelbrock carburetors have always been easy for me to dial in, as they were patterned after the famous Carter AFB carburetor and I have plenty of experience with them. The worst part of them is that you have to remove the lid to change main jets. Metering rods and shooters are easy enough though, and if you just follow the tune up procedures published by Edelbrock, it's a pretty easy task.

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Agree, I have no problem with them either. IMHO, Edelbrock carburetors do not get the respect they should.

I can change jets in my dual quads in about twenty minutes, lol. It's a little more work than a Holley, but once you get used to them it don't take long to pull the tops. TIP; use a magnet when pulling the jesus clips.

Unfortunately, Edelbrock has discontinued some of the smaller rods and jets? But they're still out there if you look. Here's another source for parts;
Carter AFB Metering Rods & Jets

Edelbrock carbs have a couple of quirks that a lot of people don't understand (and causes them problems),
1). Install a fuel pressure regulator and set it at no more than 5 PSI. Edelbrock's do not work well with higher pressure, they will leak and run poorly. Use a regulator...
2). Set the floats exactly as specified in the manual. Edelbrock's do not like HIGH float settings, it will cause them to flood and stall especially when braking. The fuel bowl vent are low in the air horn and do not like high float settings.

I have a gauge of pressure and regulator, but I not installed this.
I will install it this week.
Note: whether it is necessary to save the fuel line from high temperature?

I think when engine is working (car stay) acceleration is not affective, maybe Gasoline begins to boil? I mistake? Or not
My fuel line with fuel filter very hot when car is stop

This my engine after install new Cam with torq
And I installed cold intake
[IMG]https://d.radikal.ru/d05/1805/6d/dfe71310f2af.jpg[/IMG]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alex-grand

I think when engine is working (car stay) acceleration is not affective, maybe Gasoline begins to boil? I mistake? Or not
My fuel line with fuel filter very hot when car is stop

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Alex, I do not understand "I think when engine is working (car stay) acceleration is not effective".

Yes, you must prevent the fuel from getting hot in the fuel lines from the tank to the carburetor. When it gets hot, it creates what is called "vapor lock", which prevents fuel from flowing from the tank to the carburetor. Install insulation around the fuel lines from tank to carburetor to prevent this from happening, and particularly at any point of a heat source that is close to the line(s), such as exhaust pipe(s), exhaust headers, etc. Use a fuel pressure regulator to reduce fuel pressure to maximum 5 psi at the fuel bowl entry. More pressure than that will overpower the needle and seat in the bowl and allow the fuel pump to blow raw fuel into the intake manifold, creating a tuning nightmare that you will never be able to fix until you lower the pressure. Edelbrock carburetors are very sensitive to fuel pressure.

I'm trying to figure out where all the lines are going from and to on the front of the carburetor. An Edelbrock has 4 ports on it, one on the rear that is manifold vacuum that goes to the power brake booster. If the brake booster is operated by a line that connects directly to the intake manifold, then the rear outlet is plugged. Then there is a large intake manifold port in the center of the front that connects to a PCV valve in the valve cover. I don't see a PCV fitting on your aftermarket valve covers, so is there a PCV valve somewhere else in the system? It looks like the hose from the center port on the carburetor goes up to the bonnet at the air horn of the carburetor. Does it just connect there and is pulling in free air from the bonnet? If so, that's the same as just leaving the port open on the carburetor and creating a huge vacuum leak.

If there is no PCV at all, then you must provide another way for crankcase pressure to be relieved, otherwise if the motor is sealed up well, it will blow the oil dipstick out of its tube and begin breathing through the tube and creating quite a mess. Either that, or it will blow out a gasket and begin blowing oil all over the engine bay.

The small port on the left would be ported vacuum, normally connected to the distributor vacuum pod on a high-performance motor with an aftermarket cam.

The small port on the right would be manifold vacuum, normally connected to the automatic transmission modulator valve. ea

Please re-visit these lines and where they are supposed to go.
.


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Vacuum line is fine and correct installed.
Left go to the distributor
Right to the transmission
This my Pcv
https://c.radikal.ru/c35/1805/a5/b85831769345.jpg

Vacuum test(last month: Before replacement of camshaft)
BBC vacuum carb test
https://youtu.be/-KnqWNmny_M

I am going to install a new fuel pump with pressure gauge.
I have a new fuel regulator, To establish him?
Because edelbrock pump description said me: not required.
[IMG]https://d.radikal.ru/d16/1805/3e/5513d36d93b7.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://b.radikal.ru/b22/1805/41/6a2ef7dea3da.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://c.radikal.ru/c11/1805/ab/74f6ca79021d.jpg[/IMG]

Fuel pump and regulator Are ready to installation.
I bought carb calibration kit
What needles(nozzle, springs) to change?

https://b.radikal.ru/b43/1901/54/4f40b11de38c.jpg
https://a.radikal.ru/a31/1901/43/c68b371eb4be.jpg
https://b.radikal.ru/b17/1901/09/1d1dc7d5914b.jpg

The edelbrock.com said :

The Edelbrock Performer series #1406 & #1411 carburetors are calibrated lean for fuel economy and in most cases, will not function properly on Performer RPM & Torker style manifolds. Most people think you can just change the calibration of the carburetor and turn it into one of the Edelbrock performance carbs. This is not the case as the Venturi boosters are also different and Edelbrock does not sell Venturi booster separately. In most cases when using one of our economy style carbs on a Performer RPM or Torker syle intakes will cause hesitations and surging in the lower RPM range.

Maybe I must change a carburetor ?