78 camaro z28 stalling

:confused: hey! i have been trying to get my sons 350 chevy small block to run and stay running. it will idle great and has good responce but as soon as i put it into gear it will stall out. i turned up the idle but it still stalls out when i put it into drive or reverse. the top end is all edlebrock and the carb was cleaned. i believe the engine # is 3970010. it appears that the previous owner changed the oringinal steering column and moved the auto shifter to the floor. there is a rod hanging down near the brake master cyl. that appears to be for the oringinal column shift. also the transmission passing or kickdown cable isnt connected to the throttle. not sure if this could be the problem. his car is a true 78 z28. 350cc automatic w/posi 10 bolt rear end. also it has run this way since we bought it. thanks!

first remove the rod hanging down , it seems to me that your converter is locked up from what you have said, when you put it in any gear it is like dumping the clutch at an idle, the kick down cable is not really needed , you can down shift manually , the shifter may not be putting the transmission shifting lever in the right place too. check the torque converter, it also may not have enough stall for the cam you are running , again ... like dumping the clutch, hope this helps you , be safe

how do i check the converter ? do i need to drop the tranny? thanks!

I would try jacking the rear end and placing it on secure stands, then try placing it in gear at idle. If the converter is locked, it should spin the tires freely and not stall. If it starts to spin and then stalls, maybe remove the rear wheels and try again.

Another thing you might want to check, (and this is way out there), but just maybe your distributor is wired in such a way so as to supply power only when in park.

thanks,
so what your saying is that i want to see the tires moving while its at idle? or is it supposed to be still while at idle?
also i failed to mention that i can start the car in park, and in gear. i'm not sure what the previous owner did to it. or if that has anything to do with my problem.
one more thing i have been looking for another torque converter but i have no idea what to get. what stall speed is best? do i have to know the specs on my cam? thanks again!

the neutral safety switch not working wont cause this problem, but i would fix it if possible so as to not be accidently starting the car in gear...... the wheels should turn when its jacked up regardless of locked up or not, but if it doesn't stall then it is possible that the converter is locked..... also check your fluid level and make sure its right.......should check it while engine is running car in neutral... if you dont know your cam specs then its hard to tell what speed converter you need, but if its a stock to mild cam you can get away with a stock converter, if its a little more lopey of a cam, you might want to step up a little more on the stall speed

first of all i noticed that my thread appears to have been moved? anyway here is the update.
i jacked up the rear end and started it , put it into gear and the rear tires turned, engine did not stall. stepped down on the brakes and the engine got kinda bogged down but still did not stall. let it warm up some and took it off the jack. tried to back up and the engine acted like it was under stress and stalled out.
i did a compression test and this is what i found out #1cyl=180lbs #3=90lbs #5=150lbs #7=170lbs. #2=180lbs #4=130lbs #6=60lbs (yes 60) & #8=85lbs a few months ago i had messed around with the rockers and thought i knew what i was doing i dont know if that would mess up the compression? also there was some oil around the threads on the spark plugs that showed low compression. what do you guys think? do i need to rebuild? or read up some more on adjusting the valves. thanks!:CRY:

first i would check the valves, you might have valves too tight on a coupla cylinders which would leave them hanging open when the motor should be making compression....if you've got some old valve covers you can cut the tops off of, you could do a hot adjust on the valves and try and get them to where it'll be just right.... have her running, just do one side at a time to reduce mess.... have her running and loosen each valve til it starts clattering then tighten it up a little bit, just to where the clattering stops and give it another half turn.... if she runs better after the valve adjustments, then i think you'll be happier than spending money on a rebuild

Yes, like what thesals said, adjust your valves. You can do it by another method. Take your pick.

Ok, when looking at the engine bay from the front of the car, the cylinders on the right (driver’s side) are numbered as follows. The most forward is 1, then 3 then 5 and then 7. On the left ( passenger side) the most forward piston is 2, then 4, then 6 and then 8.

Turn the engine with the plugs removed (if you can rotate it without removing them, then that is fine) but do not rotate with the starter, just in case you already have a few valves adjusted too tight.
Firing order is 18436572

Valve adjustment should be done in such a manner so as the rocker just barely snugs up with the push rod, then add half a turn. The push rod should still turn freely after the adjustment is done, so DO NOT tighten the rockers! You should feel a slight difference in resistence when rotating the push rod before from after the adjustment is made.
Rotate the engine and watch for the #1 exhaust valve to open half way, then adjust the intake valve on #1 and the exhaust valve on #6.

Next, rotate engine so that the #8 exhaust valves opens half way, then adjust the intake valve on #8 and the exhaust valve on #5.

Next, rotate engine so that the #4 exhaust valves opens half way, then adjust the intake valve on #4 and the exhaust valve on #7.

Next, rotate engine so that the #3 exhaust valves opens half way, then adjust the intake valve on #3 and the exhaust valve on #2.

Next, rotate engine so that the #6 exhaust valves opens half way, then adjust the intake valve on #6 and the exhaust valve on #1.

Next, rotate engine so that the #5 exhaust valves opens half way, then adjust the intake valve on #5 and the exhaust valve on #8.

Next, rotate engine so that the #7 exhaust valves opens half way, then adjust the intake valve on #7 and the exhaust valve on #4.

Next, rotate engine so that the #2 exhaust valves opens half way, then adjust the intake valve on #2 and the exhaust valve on #3.

Hi

Sounds a bit like what was happening to my car. It was stalling when I put it into gear and increasing the idle didn't make a bit of difference and couldn't find any vacuum leaks to the carb. My dad suggested I adjust the timing. Advanced it a bit, and now the car will stay running when I put it in gear. I hardly know anything about engines, so don't know if that could be the problem with yours, but just incase I can help....:)

thanks for all the help!

when i adjust the lifters (with the engine running) on the 2,4,6,8 cyl i can hear the rocker tapping real good on cyl 2,4 but when i adjust the 6,8 you can barely if at all hear the tapping sound. and i loosened it up practally all the way off. i rechecked the compression on that side and there was very little difference. i pulled the push rods to see if they were bent and they looked good. also i noticed that the 2,4 cyl you can really see a difference in the valve spring compressing compared to the 4,8 cyl where they werent really compressing forcefully. also how do i tell which is the exhaust valve and intake valve ? i will try to adjust them the manual way. thanks again!!

All sbc's from front to rear E I I E E I I E.

worn cam lobes or collapsed lifters could cause the valves not to open up all the way..... but wouldn't cause bad compression, bent valves, could cause the valve not to open all the way but at the same time not seal well either.... try a cylinder leakdown test, get an air fitting that screws into your spark plug holes.... bring the cylinder you want to check to TDC, screw in fitting, hook up to compressor, if you hear air coming out the exhaust or intake and you are for sure at TDC, you probably have bent valves, if you hear air at your filler cap, its rings, if you get bubbles at the radiator cap, its a blown headgasket, or less likey, an eaten thru cylinder wall

hi i'm back i got talked into changing wheel hubs and ball joints on a f150 thanks to 42" mudders on it .anyway i did a cyl. leakdown test on # 6 cyl. i brought the piston to tdc (both valves were even) and hooked my compression tester up (took out the valve stem) then i unplugged the guage and hooked up my air hose and i could hear air but couldnt figure out where it was comming fron. i took off the fill cap and i could actually feel air comming out the fill hole. does that sound like rings? i didnt check the other cyl. yet . i will check one of the cyl with 180psi and see what happens.
i will probably rebuild the motor. does it matter with hp if i go .30 over or 60 over? i mean if i go 60 over will it make much difference in horsepower. i have the 202 heads. can somebody point me in the right direction as to what parts to get. thanks. 350sb 4 bolt main with edelbrock 4 barrel carb, and intake.thanks.

yup that would most likely be ring failure.... i'd reccomend .030 over not .060 over..... the thinner the walls get the bigger chance of blowin your motor....luckily a 350 is the most inexpensive motor to do a rebuild on..... how much power are you looking to get? stock, a little extra, a ton, or just flat out too much?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thesals

yup that would most likely be ring failure.... i'd reccomend .030 over not .060 over..... the thinner the walls get the bigger chance of blowin your motor....luckily a 350 is the most inexpensive motor to do a rebuild on..... how much power are you looking to get? stock, a little extra, a ton, or just flat out too much?

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i was thinking .30 would be better on the motor
just under a ton and more then a little extra! would like to bring it to 350to400hp. not sure what stock was 200hp maybe?. thanks!

350 to 400 is easily possible.... even more easy if you stroked it to a 383... theres plenty of builds... theres a list out there i dont have the site bookmarked but theres a list of truly proven power builds for 350s.... gives you what kind of horsepower on each one.... i'm sure someone will put up a link pretty soon since i mentioned it... wait nevermind i found it http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

Nothing to do with how the engine runs, but hook up that kickdown when you get it running. The tranny will shift better and last much longer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dugdamoose

I did a cyl. leakdown test on # 6 cyl. I brought the piston to tdc (both valves were even) and hooked my compression tester up (took out the valve stem) then i unplugged the guage and hooked up my air hose and i could hear air but couldnt figure out where it was comming from.

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If you have both valves even, they might both be open if that is on the wrong cycle. What I mean to say is there are two times where the valves might appear to be both closed, but in actuality, during the exhaust and intake cycle, they might both be overlapingly open. The second cycle is when you make compression and that would be the time to do that test. If you tested during the wrong cycle, you would have air escaping both back through the intake as well as the exhaust pipes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dugdamoose

I took off the fill cap and I could actually feel air comming out the fill hole. Does that sound like rings?

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I'm assuming that when you say, "fill cap", you mean the rad cap? If that is the case, your head gaskets need replacing or a head might be cracked. So no, worn rings would never send air into the cooling chambers however it might send air into the valve covers areas, so if you mean the "oil fil cap", then yes, the rings might be the problem. Just try and be a little more specific so we don't have to guess as to what it is that you are referring to, thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dugdamoose

I will probably rebuild the motor. Does it matter with hp if I go .030 over or
.060 over? I mean if I go .060 over will it make much difference in horsepower.

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You will gain about 5 cubic inches which would translate into an additional 1.5% hp. but as was already stated, it would probably not be in your interest to do that. Why not go .030 this time and then in a few years if and when you need to do a rebuild, then go with .040 etc.

man you are having a time with this project ....... been there , know the feeling, as far as the torque converter, on the jack stands it should idle in gear with the brakes holding the rear wheels still and idle, work it a little kinda like rolling up at a crowded stop sign, stop and go a few times, try reverse as well .... if you need one , i have found that a 2500 stall converter will give you about 1000-1500 RPM true stall for idle in gear, 5500 is good for about 4500 , i use a 5500 with a transbrake but without using the trans brake i get about 4000 max without pulling too hard to hold, your engine sounds like it has some serious problems , the man is right .030 would be best for a driver , just enough to clean up the walls and it will not have cooling problems like i have with right at 500 cid from a 454, doesnt work too well on a hot day on the street with a big stock rad. oh well , i hate that you are having so much trouble but you will get it all worked out, now would be the time to upgrade your parts in the engine valvetrain, rods,pistons and maye even crankshaft,a friend bought some eldebrock alum. heads for his '50 "sb chevy engine" he is a very well known, many world championships, (drag racing) , big cube pro mod engine builder, and we looked at them very carefully and close and they are very nice with a lot of very nice machine work there, something you may want to look at , he got the vortec heads to run fuel injection on, very nice , gonna work well, good luck , hope this helps you some
c ya later

just another thought if you are having any doubts about your valves seating on any cylinder. loosen the adj, nuts for that cyl. completely, now you know the valves are as closed as they can be and do the leakdown again, if it is blowing out the exhaust or the carb (intake) it is a valve, filler cap would be rings, expect a little air from all though, none of this is a perfect seal so a little is acceptable, very little though, look at the rocker arms and the one closest to the exhaust port on the exhaust manifold would be the exhaust valve and the same applies to the intake valves, again good luck , gatta go now , c ya

hey. i had to remove the entire front spoiler and bumper. my engine hoist wouldnt fit all the way under the car. the nose (not factory) swoops out so far the bottom of the hoist would push up against it. anyway the engine is out now.
took the intake and heads off. all of the pistons say .030 stamped on top. so i'm already bored out, i can wiggle piston#6 just by placing my hand on top of it and move it side to side.i dont see any scoring on the cyl walls. (could just new rings fix this?) or should i have it bored to 040 over? thanks!

depending on cylinder bore you have to mic it to be sure you might be able to get a mild hone and just rering it, replace all bearings, get crank polished and rods shot peened, replace all main bolts and rod bolts as well as timing chain and head bolts along with gaskets, if you are competent enough to do most of it yourself it'll cost you a few hundred bucks and come out like a new motor..... if valves look a little bad then go ahead and have the valves cut

:CRY: just when things couldnt get worse! for starters i stripped the 350 motor down. the cam lobes started out looking ok then they started looking worse toward the back. actually a few could pass for round. now lets talk pistons they are all stamped 030 . i (gently) tap out #1 piston(i was getting 170-180psi) when i took the compression test earlier. the top ring was broken in half. #2 cam out(ring broken)and boy they are sharp! i'm missing a piece of my thumb! every piston except for one had either the top ring or middle ring broken i think one had both broken. but the cyl. walls look good and so do the pistons. the rod bearings looked ok a couple had a few minor scratches. and the crank bearings looked ok. normal looking ware. the crank bearings are clevite 77. 10 82 010 MB2547p and the rear main # clevite 77 7-81 010 MB2548p. so when i order my new bearings i need to get .010 ? suppose i get a new crank would i have to get .010 bearings? can i re-use the forged pistons i already have. just buy new moly rings? thanks!

My guess is that the guy who built the engine did not leave enough ring end gap. But if the bearings look good, reuse them. A new cam is in order. I would also hone the cylinders.

If you choose to buy a new crank, you will be going with stand bearings.

who can give me some advise on this? im thinking about going with a 383 stroker kit for my 350sbc. i figure what the heck if im going to rebuild ,might just as well go with more hp. so the question is has anyone done one and what should i expect? or should i just leave the stock crank alone? my heads are 64cc camel hump heads 67-69. thanks!