Fuel injection

[Tycoon]

I am working on an 89 Suburban stock 350ci. and I am wanting to install a 383 with about 400 hp, can I make the stock system work with larger injectors or what do I have to do? Oh, this is TyphoonZR, BTW!

[Matt167]

Carburation, No fuel injection. Yes u can use the stock unit but with bigger injectors but it is much easier to use a carb. 750 edelbrock would be nice on that motor. you would have to ignore ur Check Engine Light though.

[Bo-Ti Guy]

What other mods do u plan on doing to the truck? How big of a cam are u planing on runnin? cause If u do decide to keep the T.B.I. You will need all of your sensors on you're 383 and if u go with to big of a cam the M.A.P (manifold, absilute, pressure) sensor will not work properily. IT needs to reed about 1.5 volts at idle and that is about 18 kpi. So as u see if u install a to roudy of a cam. The Vacumme will be to low and the M.A.P sensor will think that the engine is under load and it will tell the E.C.M to give it more fuel! Well then all the other E.C.M inputs will know that the engine is at idle and it will cause the E.C.M to try and fix a problem it cant. (to big of cam) as u see there is draw backs to both Carb=Enginelight or T.B.I and Mild to stalk Cam. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

[Matt167]

Originally posted by Bo-Ti Guy
What other mods do u plan on doing to the truck? How big of a cam are u planing on runnin? cause If u do decide to keep the T.B.I. You will need all of your sensors on you're 383 and if u go with to big of a cam the M.A.P (manifold, absilute, pressure) sensor will not work properily. IT needs to reed about 1.5 volts at idle and that is about 18 kpi. So as u see if u install a to roudy of a cam. The Vacumme will be to low and the M.A.P sensor will think that the engine is under load and it will tell the E.C.M to give it more fuel! Well then all the other E.C.M inputs will know that the engine is at idle and it will cause the E.C.M to try and fix a problem it cant. (to big of cam) as u see there is draw backs to both Carb=Enginelight or T.B.I and Mild to stalk Cam. Good luck and let me know how it goes.

This is why caurburation is so much easier.

[Tycoon]

Yeah yeah Streets, my count is gone! (nrr)

Bow-ti-guy, I hear you! We are going with the Edelbrock perfomer RPM, matched system. Obviously a carb is what we are going to use.

Thanks Matt, a carb it is!

[SinistrV6]

Now I know how that guy on the Di-Tech.com commercials feels!

Ah, just lost another one to carburetion!

Yeah, much better to throw that million dollars of R&D GM put into their EFI systems in the garbage and go back to a piece of equipment that's been around since Model A's.

Man, if you haven't done this yet, re-think it. Your TBI can be made to work and work properly. You're already setup for EFI, why go backwards?

If the truck already had a carb, I'd say cost was a factor as conversion can be expensive but you've already got almost everything you need!

These guys could probably help:

http://www.gmfullsize.com/forum/

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/f...?s=&forumid=12

[SinistrV6]

Originally posted by Streets
Put a Predator on it TY, better than any old 'pooter controlled POS that leaves ya stranded out in the boonies without a paddle.. GM wuz the last to have anythang but Carbs on their vehicles of the big 3..

PS. YOU gotta pay GM back fer that million $$'s they spent??
FOOEY ON DAT...

Streets,
I know you're the resident expert on EVERYTHING here but why the bias against EFI? I guess the old points-type distributors were better than the Electronic distrubutors, too, huh?

You're not paying GM back, your TAKING ADVANTAGE of the money they spent that you don't have to! JEEZ, it's a modern truck! I can understand some of you guys having a sentimental or asthetic attachment to carbs in your rods, but a late-model Suburban?!?! Come on!

Predator makes a great carb but it still sucks hind-tit to any properly sized and tuned EFI set up! And EFI is far less likely to leave you stranded than some would have you believe. Why do you think your new cars have such long warranties? Because the manufacturer knows it's not coming back anytime soon and they don't have to spend money fixin' it! But the warranty is a great selling point.

And don't even get me started on mileage and driveability.....

Dragging a modern vehicle back into the dark ages of carburetion is beyond my comprehension! Maybe he should put points and a generator in it too! And lose those damned ABS brakes! Airbags are the work of the Devil! I'll bet some wooden spoke wheels would look bitchin! And for goodness sake, get rid of PS/PW/PL/AC/Seatbelts/Safety glass and anything else those do-gooder's at GM put in there to mollycoddle you! Buncha buttinski's with their newfangled gadgets! Probably get us all killed!

[Bcal]

Have a look at this site.
http://www.kalmaker.com.au/page2.html
Allows you to remap the GM delco ECU.

I've just finished installing a megasquirt http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html on my car and the difference in throttle response was amazing. And they're real cheap and easy to set up at home on you PC. Also there's plenty of tuning values around for chevs to at least get you going.

Carbies suck
Throttle bodies suck harder

[The F.N.G.]

Ignorance is bliss. That's explains why Streets is such a happy man.

Fuel injection is THE way to go. We need not waste any more of our time and money with carburetion, it's successor has arrived.

Abe

[Tycoon]

V6 and Bcal, I would love to learn more about after market injection systems and tune high hp cars in this way. However this project is for a customer who does not want to spend big bucks on an injection system. A dual plane intake, a 750 carb, a fuel pump, bolt it on, and go off-roading, sounds real good at this point. Virtually no tuning issues. As for longevity and fuel economy, this is not an issue. In either mode it will be lucky to get 12 Cdn mpg hwy and 3-7 off-road.

On the other hand, I have my daughters car which I don't mind building a megasquirt system for and playing with it for hours, for free of course! It is a 81 280 ZX turbo.

[Dave Severson]

I gotta go with the carbs too. The only thing better than a Predator is 2 Predators on a Tunnel Ram with a roller cam and a 5 speed. Just call me a dinosaur. I like fuel injection, ps, pb, ac, etc, works great on Jackie's escort!!!

[SinistrV6]

Originally posted by Streets
Hahaha Must have struck a cord with ya, Like I wasn't the 1st one to say "CARB" I was #3 .. You can like whatever You wanna like.. Makes no nevermind too me, I think yer just jealous that anythang that I have ever BUILT or driven could beat yer Turbo POC any day of the week..
OH BTW, You haven't "Earned" the right yet and with your 'tude.. U nev'r will either.. ..

Streets,


1. Not so much that you "struck a chord" but I still think that improving the EFI that's already on the vehicle will be within a few dollars (maybe even cheaper) of the carb/intake/gas tank mod/fuel pump job. I must admit to getting a little frustrated with people who refuse to learn something new (EFI) and will throw an excellent system away and resort to ancient technology rather than try to learn! Carbs are NEVER coming back. Get your head wrapped around that idea. If they were so great new cars would still have 'em.

2. Am I jealous of you? Not "NO" but "HELL, NO!" Why the personal attack on me and my car? This WAS a discussion on the Pros/Cons of EFI vs. Carbs. BTW, you probably have cars that will outrun my "TURBO POC" but "anything you've ever BUILT or driven" I doubt it! Wake up an hear the turbo whine!

3. I haven't earned what, exactly? I don't have to EARN anything from you. This is a public forum. I was trying to impart some information to a fellow motorhead based on my experience which, while different from yours, is considerable.

4. There is a 'tude here, and it's yours.

[Matt167]

You don't throw the system away, you sell it to someone who needs it. I'm not saying EFI is a bad idea just is much more at home in a new vehicle rather than a 383 powered Blazer, It would be confuzin getting all the injectors the right size and all that to make it work right.

[SinistrV6]

Matt167,
This discussion started out being about a 383 in an '89 Suburban. It's already TBI. The links I provided in an earlier post are to forums for GM full-size trucks. This isn't virgin territory. Been done hundreds of times. You don't have to figure anything out for yourself. Just ask those who've already done it.

Nothing inherently wrong with carbs. They've been around forever and have even seen some modest improvements in recent years. But why go backwards? He's not building this truck from "scratch". It's already EFI! It's already set up for an in tank fuel pump, a fuel return line, a fuel pressure regulator, etc....

Anyone can do whatever they decide is best fort their vehicle, budget and ultimate goals. I just wanted him to reconsider converting to a carb. Why not have the performance, driveability and mileage that EFI offers when you're already 3/4 of the way there. I'm sure the truck will run like a scalded ape either way and the owner will be happy.

BTW, the resale value is gonna be hurt by the carb conversion, too. But that may not be one of the owner's concerns.

[pro70z28]

People, People, People. Can't we all just get along!!!!!
I have both and theyrrrrr both soooo great I can hardly sleep at night!!!!
Signed
Dr.Phil