***Some advice on getting my flathead running***

[Fordfanatic415]

Ok so here it goes...I have 1935 ford 5 window coupe that has been sitting for about 20 years. I've just started to work on the motor and there are a few things that I need some advice on : I just removed the radiatior so I can get it recored.Once I pulled the radiatior off I noticed that there was this rusty green sludge that was coming out of the block from the bottom where the two radiator hoses are...is there any way to get all that sludge out and to flush the block out that's fairly easy??? Also I've just pulled the gas tank to get it boiled out & I'm going to be replacing all of the lines. I know that I have to flush all the fluids in the motor such as the engine oil and tranny oil. Is there any specific method I should use??? I was thinking that to flush these fluids, I should drain them first and then fill it up with new fluids again...let the sit for a while and then drain and refill them again. Does that sound like the right thing to do??? I was talking to my buddy over the phone and he told me that based on the way I described the motor to him, I should just go and get the motor rebuilt or at least have the motor dissasembled, boiled out, have the bearings replaced, and have the seals replaced. I'm not sure if this is good advice or not and I don't have alot of cash to throw @ doing unneccesary stuff. For right now I just want to get the motor running so that it's reliable. I don't want to start the motor and throw a rod and mess stuff up that wasn't already bad. Any advice would help. Thanks!
-Don

[Fordfanatic415]

I for got to post some pictures of the motor. There are also some pictures of that weird sludge. Here are the links:
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33...e/DSC00447.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33...e/DSC00448.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33...e/DSC00449.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33...e/DSC00450.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33...e/DSC00451.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33...e/DSC00452.jpg

[Bob Parmenter]

First question would be if it turns over by hand or is seized up. If it's seized then your buddy is probably right, otherwise, get it running and see what ya got.

A little light oil sprayed down into the cylinders through the spark plug holes would be a good thing to start with either way. As for the oil in the crankcase, yeah, good idea to drain it, but just putting new in without some aggitation/circulation won't do much. Don't believe any stories folks might tell you about "detergent" oil loosening up any sludge, the "detergent" in oils is really a dispersant that's intended to keep particles suspended when produced. What loosens up the existing deposited/sludgy material is flow. Some will recommend putting in some diesel fuel (or kerosene) to loosen up the sludge, but again, works better when agitated.

As for the cooling system looks like that sludged up too, only likely from old antifreeze. One thing you can do is to cap those lower outlets, pour in some baking soda through the upper hose necks (take out the thermostats), and follow that with some vinegar (just regular white is fine unless you're a gourmet and insist on red wine or basalmic ). The combination of the acid (vinegar) and the base (baking soda) will make a bubbling, churning solution that will loosen up sludgey, slimy stuff (works good in sink drains too). Then you can drain that off and follow that with a blast from the garden hose. Yeah, you'll get really wet, so do it somewhere where you won't leave stains and the water will run off. If it's antifreeze sludge, make sure no pets are around to drink any of the runoff.

To get it running you'll want to check all the ignition components to make sure they'll work; wiring, points, rotor, condenser, coil, and plugs. You may get away with the carb, though it's likely gummed up and will need some cleaning of the jets and needle/seat. As Don suggested earlier you can run it off a gas can, just hook up a long enough hose to the fuel pump inlet to suck from the can. Probably should check to see if the coil is a six or twelve volt. If it's 12 then use a 12v batt, the starter doesn't care. If it's 6 then you need to find a 6v batt or start your upgrade to 12v.

Some "good" news, it looks like it's a Mercury engine rather than a Ford. Not a lot of difference except the Merc has more cubes and hp, and has more appeal because of it.

[Don Shillady]

Oooooooooh, to me that is more fun than a Caddy/Hemi! Does rust = nostalgia? Anyway there is the real world of metal and gooey rust as compared to the old images in my head but I would just check the crankcase oil for chocolate milkshake evidence of water and if the oil is oil I would flush, flush and flush that wonderful old engine till the water runs clear. There used to be a formulation called "Oakite" that was used to clean out rusty blocks but I don't know where to get it these days. Since rust is an oxide and oxides are bases in water, the vinegar will do the most good since it is a weak acid and can dissolve rust. A caustic or basic flush will not do much good as far as cleaning our rust; a mild acid is needed. If vinegar does not meet your idea of a clean block the next step would be to use oxalic acid but drug store muriatic acid (HCl) is too strong. Bob's baking soda + vinegar will at least get some bubble action down in the cracks and neither the acid or base is strong enough to do any real damage. If there is no water in the oil say a prayer and have fun with that old flathead, but your idea of cleaning out the radiator is also a good idea. I guess nostalgia is in a person's head but I wish I had such a setup in my '29! You might also consider draining out the rear gear lubricant because it does "wear out" after a few hundred thousand miles; just drain the rear and the trans, flush with motor oil briefly and refill with fresh lube fluids. The motor cooling system is the most important part to clean up and drug store oxalic acid is the quick way to a clean the interior of the block but vinegar is milder.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

[Fordfanatic415]

So I dropped the gas tank today and I'm taking to get it boiled out. The fuel lines look pretty descent, but I figured that I might as well change them out since I really don't know how good of shape they're in. Two options came to mind as far as replacing the lines----> Should I use steel braided lines so that I don't have to worry about running in to trouble bending standard type lines??? Or should I stay with the standard metal type lines??? I talked to my buddy and he said that braided lines will allow for more flow and they would be easier to mount to the frame. Also since I'm replacing all of the lines and boiling out the gas tank, what other parts of the fuel system should I swap out in the process???
As far as the electrical system goes(12v conversion)...I'm going to purchase a powergen alternator, a 12v battery, 12v to 6v reducers for the gauges, light bullbs, and crap load of wire. I know that the starter is 6v and that it will work so I'm not worried about that. As far as the wiring to all the lights and accessories I'm fairly confident that I can do it all my self. I'm trying to cover all the odds and ends to make sure that I don't miss anything. Does anyone know of any other parts that I should replace in the electrical system??? Does the distributor have to be changed??? Spark plug wires maybee???

[Don Shillady]

Tell me/us more about the braided line. I am at the same point installing a new tank and need a line to the fuel pump. It seems to me that braided line will need fittings attached to the ends and the line itself will be a lot more expensive than steel tubing with flared ends but I am interested since it looks like some interesting bends are needed in the steel tubing.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

[Bob Parmenter]

I just found out today that Speedway Motors sells the alternator and the brake system we referred to earlier. Might be a good option when you go price checking, and if you combine you'll save some on shipping.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm

The distributor shouldn't be an issue, but the coil needs to be 12v. Plug wires don't care.

If you don't know how to use and/or don't have a tubing bender the braided would be easier, but a lot more $. There are maleable tubings out there, suitable for fuel, that don't need a tubing bender, an example; http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm Just don't use copper, it's a catalyst for oxidation of the fuel which could lead to quicker varnish depositing during storage times.

[R Pope]

Like Bob says, that's a Merc 255 engine. I see someone has swapped a Stromberg 97 on it. The advance in the distributor won't work right with that carb, the vacuum port is wrong. Find a '49-53 Holley 94 for it. It'll run with the 97, but won't have as much power, and will probably run hot due to retarded spark.

[Fordfanatic415]

I turned the crank bolt and it turns fairly easily so I know the motor isn't seized. I guess I'm going to experiment with the baking soda/vinegar mix tomorrow and see how that goes. By the way...I know that this might sound kind of stupid,but where is the thermostat located??? Is there more than one?

[Bob Parmenter]

There should be one under each hose "bib" on each head.

[Fordfanatic415]

From what I hear... the aluminum lines are cheaper but the fittings are more expensive whereas braided lines are alot more expensive but the fittings are cheaper. In general braided lines are more $, but if you have alot of drastic bends and tight spots to run them through then I'd get the braided lines. Me personally I'm getting the aluminum lines that bob suggested because I'm on a budget and it will save me $ and will work fine untill I'm ready to upgrade.
***Where can I find a '49-'53 holley 94 and how much $ is it???***
Also I'm not sure if you guys can see by the pictures that I posted, but the fuel line coming from the drivers side connects to a plastic piece that I'm assuming is a pressure regulator or a fuel filter because there is still some fluid in it... should I replace that aswell??? If it's not either of the two what is it??? Where would the regulator and filter be @???
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a33...e/DSC00452.jpg

[Irelands child]

From what I hear... the aluminum lines are cheaper but the fittings are more expensive whereas braided lines are alot more expensive but the fittings are cheaper. In general braided lines are more $, but if you have alot of drastic bends and tight spots to run them through then I'd get the braided lines. Me personally I'm getting the aluminum lines that bob suggested because I'm on a budget and it will save me $ and will work fine untill I'm ready to upgrade.

Just as a suggestion - until you make a plan as where you want to end up with this car, just make up the fuel lines 'in kind' so you can at least start and drive it around. That is, use some good old steel tubing and fittings that you can buy very inexpensively from any auto parts store. My recollection is that early Fords are only 1/4" and a 6 foot length of standard brake tubing is only 3-4 bucks(if they are 5/16, a buck or so more). Aluminum is fine for temp use, but don't even think of SS braided lines until you are in the final build as you can drop several hundred dollars very quickly - fittings are NOT cheap( 90° FLARE UNION, AN4 EA $6.95 plus 2 tube sleeves and 2 tube nuts for a $1 ea end - info from SPEEDWAY) and often you need 2 or more fittings for a single connection and the line is in the range of 7 to 10 bucks a foot. You may need a 37degree flaring tool as well - very expensive - my RIGID set was over $200 I've attached a photo of what you can get into as far as braided hose.

[Don Shillady]

Ireland's Child, I'm still here, just waiting for a column drop which is holding up several steps related to the steering. You have talked me out of braided tubing since I guess I can try bending steel tubing and waste several and still come out cheaper. Your setup is beautiful! I also note that you opted for a tall e-brake handle similar to what I have which makes the A look a little more like a resto-rod. I think I paid less than $20for a tubing bender and I have previous experience with a 37 degree flaring tool that I am not anxious to repeat.

Don Shillady

[Irelands child]

Ireland's Child, I'm still here, just waiting for a column drop which is holding up several steps related to the steering. You have talked me out of braided tubing since I guess I can try bending steel tubing and waste several and still come out cheaper. Your setup is beautiful! I also note that you opted for a tall e-brake handle similar to what I have which makes the A look a little more like a resto-rod. I think I paid less than $20for a tubing bender and I have previous experience with a 37 degree flaring tool that I am not anxious to repeat.

Don Shillady

Don,
Amazing how one minor part slows down everything, isn't it?

You can get some SS tubing from Summit as well but it is a b**** to bend. The braided stuff on mine just kinda grew....and grew....and grew. Only if you have a real good flare will 37deg flares work - I started with a <$50 tool from Speedway then wasted some SS tubing for my brake system trying to make it work then went and bought the RIGID setup. Tubing benders are reasonable - but the inexpensive ones usually don't work too well w/SS. The photo shows what I have - it has done my car's brakes as well as a buddys '32 coupe.
Braided line is tough as well as very time consuming (and bloody fingers) to do though there is a new tool to help that I don't have. Another thing most folks don't understand is the very long bend radius for -6 and up braided lines.

The long e-brake handle 'just looks right' but the original 23" shifter handle was just wrong for the roadster so I bought a replacement 16". The 23" handle was correct for the sedan that I started with though - but that's another story !!

Looks like I need some pictures without the dust on everything

[Fordfanatic415]

Oh ya I forgot to ask...what are spindles??? Since I'm replacing the hubs and brakes should I get those aswell???