Modern Flatheads

Does anyone know if a new flathead block is availible. No, French blocks do not count. What I am asking is from Flathead Jack, Motor City Speed Equipment, etc. If so, how much do they cost. Also, how much would it cost to have a relaible performance flathead. What I mean by performance flathead is a flathead that will be able to keep up with a similar car with a SBC, however I cannot spend a lot. I do not have experience with building engines, but I was told that the flathead was a great engine for a first build due to its simple design. I would like to do as much of the engine work as possible, but as mentioned before, I do not have many of the tools or the experience. What do I need to build an engine? I have the regular tools like screwdrivers, wrenches, pliers, electric sander, taps, dies, etc. I do not have a welder, nor the skills required to opperate one. I know this is a lot of question, but responses would be greatly appreciated. Please share your personal experiences.

i dont know so much on if there is availability on new repro blocks for flatheads, but to put it simple... to build one that will keep up with a modern SBC you're looking at well over $10k to build you motor.... to do a simple rebuild and get about 90-120HP depending on which motor you're doing... you're looking at spending at least $4k.... now if that hasn't run you off.... i'll let ya know you're going to need torque wrench, a machine shop to bore your block, a piston ring installer, a piston ring compressor, a valve spring compressor, a cam bearing installer... i'm sure theres more i'm forgetting(when you have everything you need you forget what you wouldn't have with a basic toolkit) rebuilding a flathead is yes simple... but these days its very pricey.... if the only reason you want to do a flat head is for simplicity to build... i'd reccomend just sticking with an overhead valve engine, you'll save a ton of money and get a lot of performance.... if you've got the funds and you want a flathead for keeping your car semi original then go for it

BTW you wont need a torch on a basic rebuild.... except for maybe heating up wrist pins but you can have a machinst attach pistons to rods when you get everything balanced

Motor City Flathead was supposto, had cad drawings for a new block and all but they went out, were bought by a new owner who changed the name to motor city speed equipment, they have the same plans, but there not off there feet yet.

A flathead is not an easy or cheap engine to build. Might want to try a small block Ford or Chevy, they are plentiful and dirt cheap...

For tools, you'll need an engine stand, sockets, wrenches, torque wrenches, feeler gauges and the other basic stuff. The machine work can be done by a competent machine shop in your area.

Go to Motorcityspeedequipment.com
You'll find many answers there.

yah for your first rebuild stick with small block chevys they are cheap, sturdy, easy to find and easy to make power with, you could buy a brand new GM performance crate 350 with something like 275? hp for half of what it will cost you to build that flathead, if you wanted more power you could a always buy a cam, headers, a decent intake and maybe some vortec heads and you still prob. wouldnt have spent as much as it will cost to build a flathead. yes flatheads are cool but they are expensive and basically outdated but still cool in an old hotrod

Fifty years ago the flathead was THE engine. I have owned and built many of them. While they are a fabulous looking engine and at the top of the nostagia list, as Dave S says, they are not cheap to build nor even particularly easy to work on. There are few machine shops that I would trust to build my $5000 (or probably more) dream engine as there are quite a few tricks to making them a viable and reliable powerplant. There is little chance that they will out perform any $3 to $5000 Ford or GM crate motor. You cannot, for instance, buy standard parts from Auto Zone or even NAPA. Bits and pieces are very expensive even on eBay. You can buy almost everything you need performance wise for a SB Ford or Chevy from Summit, Jegs or similar mail order supplier including a complete crate motor delivered to your home in 3 to 5 days.

What I'm trying to say - a Ford flathead, in today's world is for an experienced rodder/mechanic and is NOT the engine to start your rodding activities.

i agree with Ireland.....flatheads are really cool and we are not trying to discourage you from building one but i wouldnt build one for my first motor but just start saving up some money and build one in a few years.

Mike I understand why you'd like to keep the flathead instead of becoming Joe Average with no imagination in sticking one more of a million crate motors in. Boring!!

If you have a 6 cyl here's a rebuilt engine on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/49-50...WDVWQQtcZphoto

Here's a running condition V-8 but... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1953-...WDVWQQtcZphoto

And here's a built one! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-...WDVWQQtcZphoto

For rebuilt kits go to www.kanter.com 239-255CID Ford/Merc V-8 from 48-53 run $1077 for basic to $1442 for a deluxe kit.

Ain't got a Ford? They have 21 pages of overhaul/rebuilt kits in their catalog.

I don't know who told you that a flathead engine is an easy build because it isn't. You first have to find a good block and then have it magnaflux to see if the block is cracked.. I'm rebuilding a 53 merc block and believe me it's taken longer and more expensive than I'd first though it would be. I've worked with flatheads since 1958 and I love them and yes you can get a nice 250Hp engine built like thesals says, but it's going to cost you some big $$$$$

I love those old 59AB engines and the ad on EBay with a current bid of $560 looks tempting but on the one hand it is likely to be bid up near the end of the time limit and on the other hand it is definitely a gamble to put out $500-$1000 without pulling the heads to check for cracks. The problem is that many flatheads would run with a crack between a cylinder and a valve pocket with a tell tale of disappearing water. I optimistically bought three blocks and found cracks in all of them. You can build a SBC-350 for under $2000 and get 250 to 275 HP easily while you will have to spend a lot on a flathead (assuming you can find a good block) to even get 200 HP. Time moves on!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Ditto, to everything said about the flathead, but there's nothing that looks better in a Deuce coupe.

As long as this thread has been revived, I thought I would pass along that someone is reproducing the flathead block, in aluminum! I forget the name right now, but the tab is like $ 10,000.00. Better get in line and pick up an extra one or two.......... :p :p

Don

Oh, as I understand it, that is the BARE block. :eek:

I think that is Motor City Flatheads, although they are still not in production yet, I saw a new French Block go for $1500 on Ebay recently. I'm not too fond of the french, but I have seen some quality manufactured goods come out of there. I fly in a french made helicopter at work.

Ralph, I'm pretty sure those were blocks made by Henry and shipped to France for the war effort. They were discovered in a french warehouse several years ago as leftover war surplus. Seems to me there were maybe 200 of them. Here's a blurb from the HAMB......
"The actual owner of the French Flatheads is Brent Mullins (http://www.mullinsjeepparts.com/). He restores military vehicles and goes all over the world buying military surplus. He bought the French Flatheads and imported them to the U.S. He sold them to Halibrand and got them back after they went bankrupt."

The French flatheads were not exactly war surplus but they are military surplus. The flathead engine design was modified by the French military with the addition of governors, metric details (although not all holes are metric), the addition of casting features, etc. These engines were used in frog military vehicles up to about 1990 and were phased out. The surplus spares were purchased and returned to the USA. The engines are a combination of features from several Ford designs. One web location showing pics is
http://www.reds-headers.com/html/ffh.html

The are reportedly cast using a better metal than did Henry use.

Correction, Shadow Rods is the distributor for the new Aluminum block, not sure if they Manufacture it. I have never seen a price attached to one yet.

I just got through rebuilding my 52 flathead and it's overheating like crazy. Put in a lot of money and I'm very sad today. Just got this pickup on the road last week and took it around the block for the first time since I have owned it. Must have a crack in the block...probably just didn't see it. Never got it Magnafluxed...bought the truck from my old boss back in 1986 and had it in storage. He used to bring it to work when I was working for him. He decided to sell it and I jumped on it. I will still keep the engine....can't see putting the Chevy 350/350 combo in my Ford!

The last time I heard a discussion on the cost of a new aluminum flathead was about 6 years ago. At that time, the cost was stated to be big...like at least $9K big. About the same as today's cost for a 502 Ram Jet or a World Products small block 427. :eek:

I really dig flat heads, but I'd go for one of the other two (or maybe a 5.7 Hemi). I'd prefer a better return on my investment than what the flathead would yield. :LOL:

Update on the overheating flathead....had the radiator rodded and it runs cool as a cucumber! Live and learn. No loss of coolant, running thermostats, new water pumps, 50/50 coolant. Very happy now!

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Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

Ditto, to everything said about the flathead, but there's nothing that looks better in a Deuce coupe.

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Agree entirely. The flathead is a gorgeous engine. To me, there's nothing that looks worse than a Chevrolet 350 in a beautiful Ford roadster. One guy actually built a 700 horsepower flathead by reversing the intake and exhaust ports (how that's done I'm not sure) and running racing fuel.

A few of us just had a discussion this past weekend at Billetproof about modern engines vs engines like flatheads, Studebakers, Caddys, etc. One guy said he hears from owners of those motors that they would love to attend some faraway event but they are afraid to take them that far in case something happens. The reason is that you can't easily find for example a flathead coil at Autozone, whereas you can practically rebuild a small block Chevy or Ford engine right in their parking lot and get most of the parts right off their shelves.

This is precisely my logic when I build a car. I like something that looks like it might have been built in the 50's but I am not a slave to tradition. I use modern engines, and accessories like alternators and electric fans. I want to check the oil, top off the tank, and head out for a trip with little more than a few hand tools under the seat.

We did exactly that this past weekend....4 hours each way and never once did I have to wonder if the simple little sbc powering it would get us there and back. Same with my 27. In the 7 years I owned it I had it to Daytona 3 times, drove it daily for work, and never did the sbf fail to pull into the garage under it's own power that night. So, this isn't to defame our beloved flatheads, but they are 1932 technology in a 2009 world.

Don

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

The reason is that you can't easily find for example a flathead coil at Autozone, whereas you can practically rebuild a small block Chevy or Ford engine right in their parking lot and get most of the parts right off their shelves.

This is precisely my logic when I build a car. I like something that looks like it might have been built in the 50's but I am not a slave to tradition.

Don

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Don,

I see your point, and it makes sense from a budget standpoint. It's certainly more user friendly and modern small block Fords are great. What gets me is putting a Chevy engine in a classic Ford. Chevy engines aren't superior to Ford engines, and the car winds up not being a Ford or not being a Chevy. (I don't mean to offend anyone. I appreciate the product of anyone's hard work. this is just my aesthetic opinion).

Take a look at this:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e.../photo_02.html

It certainly isn't cheap, but it is a work of art. I'd take one in a '32 Ford Convertible over almost anything else for that car.

Well heck, if you want to spend that kind of money, might as well just wait til Ken Thurm gets his new heads for the V-12 done, then you've got really unique engine and still in the same family....

Problem being, could buy a crate motor from Sonny Leonard or John Kasse for less, and REALLY have some Ford power in a Ford!!!!!!

I do agree, Ford's belong in Ford's!!!! I'm just sooooooooooo tired of looking at a big long line of 'glass Deuces all powered by chebbies and the owner's of them coming off like they are the epitome of Hot Rodding!!!! Had my Deuce, powered by a Ford, loved it and really have no desire to build another!!!! So many other interesting and unusual cars out there still waiting to be built!!!!! Whatever happened to Dare to be Different, anyway????

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Well heck, if you want to spend that kind of money, might as well just wait til Ken Thurm gets his new heads for the V-12 done, then you've got really unique engine and still in the same family....

Problem being, could buy a crate motor from Sonny Leonard or John Kasse for less, and REALLY have some Ford power in a Ford!!!!!!

I do agree, Ford's belong in Ford's!!!! I'm just sooooooooooo tired of looking at a big long line of 'glass Deuces all powered by chebbies and the owner's of them coming off like they are the epitome of Hot Rodding!!!! Had my Deuce, powered by a Ford, loved it and really have no desire to build another!!!! So many other interesting and unusual cars out there still waiting to be built!!!!! Whatever happened to Dare to be Different, anyway????

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Is that a Lincoln V-12? I always wondered if anyone supercharged a Lincoln V12. That would be quite a mill.

I despise Chevys because they have given me lots of trouble in modern cars I've owned with their small blocks installed. I have no idea why people think that these engines are the be all and end all.

[QUOTE=Maxb49;367421]Is that a Lincoln V-12? I always wondered if anyone supercharged a Lincoln V12. That would be quite a mill.

QUOTE]

Yuppers, the big V12!!! Ken has a thread on here with a lot of good information and pics on what he's building, should show up on a search...I don't remember the title on the thread.. Gorgeous stuff!!!!