Thread: thinking about building a 429/460

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Thinking about building a 429/460 on the side, while I'm driving the car, and then putting it in. What do you think I should use for a core motor? I have a 68-69 4v 429 c6 in it now. Runs ok, but thinking on more power, but still want to maintain "some" street manners. Any suggestions?

That's the one I'd use. Cam, intake & Headers will wake it up enough.

With the shorter stroke, the 429's are a bit quicker revving, but for all out torque the 460's are hard to beat!!! Then add a stroker kit to the 460 and the torque numbers really go up!!!! Both make great street engines. I like big torque numbers, so I guess my vote would go with the 460, stroker kit, aluminum heads and intake, and a mild cam...

Great motors. As suggested, you don't need a really big cam in those to build power. I've never worked much with 429s, but I helped a friend build a 460 for a t-bucket. Dyno'd @ 530 ft/lbs......mild performance cam and 2,500 stall in front of a C6. Now when you start boring and stroking 460s, things really get interesting.

-Lee
www.atomicpinup.com

The 429 block is identical to the 460 ,just a different crank.You would be replacing the crank,rods,pistons,might as well stroke it ,like Dave said.
I pretty sure the 4.5 inch stroker kits drop right in ,without clearancing problems.That makes it a 550 sumtin or a 598 ,depeding on bore and at 1 hp per cubic inch,thats plenty for a street ride.
1 hp per cubic inch is easy to do and the engine will last.I think the last time I checked ,the decent stroker kits were from 1300 to 1600 bucks,You could use the rest of the stock engine ,with maybe a intake for awhile too ,untill you could get some head work done to unleash the cubes.

Is there any 460 (head wize) that's better than others, to try and locate?

Originally Posted by mrc013

Is there any 460 (head wize) that's better than others, to try and locate?

If your talking cast iron, the DOVE heads are good, for aluminum heads on a street engine, the Edelbrocks work great as well as the AFR's.

I've got a 460 that is built and sitting, waiting for something to drop it in. I used early heads and had them reworked with bigger SS valves, guideplates, Harlan Sharp roller rockers, ported, polished, etc. IF I had it to do over I would have bought a set of aluminum heads and probably had the same money in them, plus shed some weight.

One thing about every part of a 460, THEY ARE ALL HEAVY.


Don

a buddy of mine design the ex514 head that works very good in a mild 460 or stroker engine. he had a right up in the ford magazine when he used his heads on a 500+cid pump gas engine that made 830hp and was very streetable. not saying you need 800hp but the heads are very good pieces.

Originally Posted by mrc013

Thinking about building a 429/460 on the side, while I'm driving the car, and then putting it in. What do you think I should use for a core motor? I have a 68-69 4v 429 c6 in it now. Runs ok, but thinking on more power, but still want to maintain "some" street manners. Any suggestions?

All 460 blocks are good ones...basically most all core 460s are good ones (carbureted versions). As far as a rebuilder core, the main difference between years is in the cylinder heads, but for a street engine to 500HP or so, any year will work and be a maintenance free engine at that HP level. (More HP is certainly possible.)

If you want some grunt power for that Galaxie, I would suggest a 501 or 521 stroker. I'm not a fan of the 4.5 stroke (557 stroker) cranks for several reasons, unless there are specific circumstances for running them. These stroker rotating assembies are available complete with bearings and rings, just bring your block to the machine shop and have them prep it for assy. Also, you will be amazed at what the OEM iron heads can do when propery prepped for the application, AND when you pop the hood the engine looks like a stock longblock...and then you smoke the competition.

Give some more detail about how much power you desire (and if it must run on pump gas) and I can suggest a combo or two.

Paul
www.highflowdynamics.com

Originally Posted by Paul Kane

All 460 blocks are good ones...basically most all core 460s are good ones (carbureted versions). As far as a rebuilder core, the main difference between years is in the cylinder heads, but for a street engine to 500HP or so, any year will work and be a maintenance free engine at that HP level. (More HP is certainly possible.)

If you want some grunt power for that Galaxie, I would suggest a 501 or 521 stroker. I'm not a fan of the 4.5 stroke (557 stroker) cranks for several reasons, unless there are specific circumstances for running them. These stroker rotating assembies are available complete with bearings and rings, just bring your block to the machine shop and have them prep it for assy. Also, you will be amazed at what the OEM iron heads can do when propery prepped for the application, AND when you pop the hood the engine looks like a stock longblock...and then you smoke the competition.

Give some more detail about how much power you desire (and if it must run on pump gas) and I can suggest a combo or two.

Paul
www.highflowdynamics.com

I would love to hear the reasons not to run the 4.5 stroke crank.
I have a customer that brought me a 4.5 forged crank and rods from TMD.
He started running 6.50's with ported dove heads and a mech. roller cam.
That was last tear with 70 pass's on it shifting at 6,000 rpm's.
He basicly ran out of head.
This year he has a set of Blue Thunder heads he bought used on the same engine. and went to a larger mech. roller cam along with a 200 shot of N20.
He has had chaissis problems and has only run a best of 5.21.
He has over 80 pass's on the engine so far with no problems.
Not bad for a $450 imported crank.

Originally Posted by erik erikson

I would love to hear the reasons not to run the 4.5 stroke crank....

EE,

I didn't say not to run one; I said that I am not a fan and that I prefer the smaller stroker cranks.

There is little journal overlap with the 4.5 stroker, also they pull the pistons way out of the hole at BDC, then there's the rod ratio, increased cost of building relative to the smaller stroker cranks, etc. But yes, the 4.5 strokers are indeed run with success and will continue to be offered as they, too, are a "drop in" rotating assembly without any crankcase clearancing required, etc.

And they also can make an engine more costly to bulild, as they need more air to breathe, ie more cam (a roller if you really want the BIG HP, but this is not necessary for the engine to run), aslmost always cost more $ to balance, more $ for better heads (ideally), etc. And then with all that power you have this cast crankshaft with minimal journal overlap and thereby minimized structual integrity. A lot or racers seem to be breaking the 4.5 stroke cast cranks at about 1000+ HP or above. That might be a lot of HP for others...but again, for me, I'm just not a fan and would rather go with a smaller stroke deal. Good thing the forged cranks have arrived.

The 4.3 stroker (521/533) makes for a practically "square" engine, which I personally like. More importantly, the 6.8 rodded 521/533 stroker puts the piston pins just .030" lower in the bore at BDC than the OEM 460...which I re-e-e-e-eally like. Great rod ratio. We recently completed a 528 (4.42B x 4.3S) combo that runs on regular ol' pump gas and a single carburetor, and produced 737HP on the dyno, and a diesel flat torque curve that hovered around 655-678 pounds from 4000-6500 rpm (didn't check lower rpms due to the jetr boat application of the engine).

I simply much prefer the 4.3 stroke over the 4.5 stroke deal.

Paul

Originally Posted by Paul Kane

EE,

I didn't say not to run one; I said that I am not a fan and that I prefer the smaller stroker cranks.

There is little journal overlap with the 4.5 stroker, also they pull the pistons way out of the hole at BDC, then there's the rod ratio, increased cost of building relative to the smaller stroker cranks, etc. But yes, the 4.5 strokers are indeed run with success and will continue to be offered as they, too, are a "drop in" rotating assembly without any crankcase clearancing required, etc.

And they also can make an engine more costly to bulild, as they need more air to breathe, ie more cam (a roller if you really want the BIG HP, but this is not necessary for the engine to run), aslmost always cost more $ to balance, more $ for better heads (ideally), etc. And then with all that power you have this cast crankshaft with minimal journal overlap and thereby minimized structual integrity. A lot or racers seem to be breaking the 4.5 stroke cast cranks at about 1000+ HP or above. That might be a lot of HP for others...but again, for me, I'm just not a fan and would rather go with a smaller stroke deal. Good thing the forged cranks have arrived.

The 4.3 stroker (521/533) makes for a practically "square" engine, which I personally like. More importantly, the 6.8 rodded 521/533 stroker puts the piston pins just .030" lower in the bore at BDC than the OEM 460...which I re-e-e-e-eally like. Great rod ratio. We recently completed a 528 (4.42B x 4.3S) combo that runs on regular ol' pump gas and a single carburetor, and produced 737HP on the dyno, and a diesel flat torque curve that hovered around 655-678 pounds from 4000-6500 rpm (didn't check lower rpms due to the jetr boat application of the engine).

I simply much prefer the 4.3 stroke over the 4.5 stroke deal.

Paul

I will take the 4.5 stroke any day of the week to get a heavy bracket car to move.
In a marine application where the engine has to the rpm's for longer time frame I would prefer a shorter stroke.
A 1,000 + hp on a cast crank??
Why would you even try this???
At 600 hp I am looking for a forged crank.

Thats why I like the fords........I am lookin at 550 -600 on the stock crank Of course ,I am only gunna turn it to 6000 rpm or so.

Originally Posted by erik erikson

I will take the 4.5 stroke any day of the week to get a heavy bracket car to move.
In a marine application where the engine has to the rpm's for longer time frame I would prefer a shorter stroke.
A 1,000 + hp on a cast crank??
Why would you even try this???
At 600 hp I am looking for a forged crank.

EE,

I never said that I would "try this" with an offshore cast crankshaft, I said that a lot of racers are having such said experience. Why do you keep misinterpreting my posts? I already stated that it's a good thing that the overseas forgings have arrived realtive to such application(s).

And if you are saying that you are building bracket cars with 600HP motors that use the cast 4.5 stroke cranks, then that's great. I don't see a problem with that either. But if you are saying that you are having problems with the cast cranks above just 600HP and must then turn to a forged crankshaft, then I'd begin to question the integrity of the build(s) and the tune...although I have heard of a defective cast offshore crank snapping during a leisurely trip aboud the block during a 2000 rpm break-in...

Believe it or not, marine application race engines, including jet boats and v-drives, are going to larger stroker rotating assemblies and turning the engines slower...and finding greater ET's and traps speeds than with the shorter stroke peaky stuff of yesteryear.

Paul