460 leaking behing water pump

[murraydav]

Yesterday after my fall oil change, I was pressure cleaning my big block 460 in my 67 1/2 ton. after a run there was coolant leaking between the block and the housing that holds the dip stick. Of course it it a blown gasket after 28 years and 120,000 she's shot. Off to parts source, no w/p gasket or block to spacer gasket. Of course I picked up a new water pump as I'm not stupid enough to do this all again next year. Tonight after work and supper I fight for a couple of hours with fan, A/C, power st., and alternator etc etc. So its dark and the w/pump is finally off,,,,now I see the part I though was just an extension is actually very large. Now my question-----how much more do I have to pull off to get the 2 & 1/2 inch thingy to come off so as to re-gasket the beast. Is it actually going around the crank as it seems. Looks like the fuel pump will also have to come off, which means another gasket. Am I indanger of leaking anti freeze into my oil pan? That means yet another gasket is needed. Have any of you been through this and is there a web site to walk me through the mess I'm in. I'm no mechanic but I am a dedicated cheapskate. None of my vehicles get to vistit the shop except for when automatic transmission magic is required. Thank the Lord there Fords and seldom break. However I feel as I have opened the proverbial Can-O-Worms......HELP!

[Mike P]

Murray as tech says, get a repair manual. Your not going to want to hear this but what your removing is the timing chain cover. Inspect the cover carefully once you get it removed, the water passages have been known to corrode through (which may actually be your water leak). At 120 K now is the time to also replace the timing chain. Good luck.

[murraydav]

I've been researching and am learning a set of gears from an earlier 460 or a 429 would improve performance and gas meileage. How about a comment on this idea?

[bb427stang]

Murray, the odds are REAL good your timing cover has corroded around the passages. I run 460s in my boats, and it is THE most common cause of leaks. Get yourself a new one, you'll be glad you did.

[murraydav]

When I first thought to go to the internet for advice I posted in several locations as not everone looks at every post on every forum. excuse my haste but I have got fantastic responce real fast. A great big thanks from all those who have been a great big help.

Ok I ordered the new timing gears today and chose to go with a pre 70 set as advised by others on this forum and over at Fordtrucks.com. and fordtruckworld.com Also learned at the shop that is bringing in the gearset, that I should pre soak the chain in oil overnight to totally lube the links. Thing is when you start it up for the first time you can lose a degree or two right away as there is no pressure oiling inside the cover, only splash oiling. Sounds reasonable to me. Did not take the cover off yet as I ran out of daylight last night and its pouring rain today. Also thanks for the tip that the timing cover is aluminum and more often than not will be rotted or warped and thus the leak. Cost to replace is $125 Canadian bucks, that's about 37.50 USD. Thing is they are rare, cant even get one through Ford.
Thanks again to those who offered advice. I'll let you know if I gained performance.

[murraydav]

I located one, an aftermarket from grey(something) probably Chineese. Cost is $125.00 Canadian bucks. Which is around 80 U.S. and instead of E-Bay or mail order I will have it in my hands before paying. It is in stock, all shiny and clean. However I'll wait till mine is off then poke and pry to see if mine is indeed shot. My wholesale parts guy said the retail was 225 bucks, so I phoned around and called 3 places, nada thing, no longer avaliable our Ford dealer said.

Should have it back together Friday with the new straigh up gears. Actually can't wait to see what happens. Imagine waking up a sleeping bear after 25 years of not even being able to spin the tires when empty. If this simple gear set makes that much difference I'll bye you guys a beer some day!!!!!


__________________
1977 Econoline 351W (bought new)
1977 F150 460 w/lariat interior
1962 Farilane 500 221 v8 auto
1962 Fairlane 170/6 winter beater

[murraydav]

Timing chain and water pump questions
I came on this board last week asking about help with a 460 leaking coolant. Got the help I needed and have just finished my repair. There seem to be several people asking about timing chains. Here's my first hand and very fresh news, being that I have just finished cleaning up.

WOW my 460 now runs like a rocket. I just can't help feeling like a kid. I mean I'm spinning the tires every time I leave a stop sign. This is an incredible difference. I bought my 77 150 off my dad about 10 years ago. It is bogged down with a 2.75 rear ratio. Always very very slow off the line, but would pull like a frieght train all the way to 90. Last weekend after a pressure wash, coolant was leaking from behind the timing case. Well if you have to go as far as a new timing cover you would be plain nuts not to change the water pump and the timing chain and gears. Several of the old pros on this page convinced me to go with pre 1971 gears. Thanks a million guys. Too bad I and Dad waited 27 years to do this simple change.

What I learned
The case is Aluminium and very prone to rotting. Therefore,do not change your gearset without buying a new cover.

Get some help to start the cover install. My son (20) was on top aligning the two 1/2 inch bolt holes with an awl, while I started the bolts while laying on the ground. Also very much needed my son's help to re-install the fuel pump. The preload on the pump arm will kill ya it you try it alone.

Don't even think of replacing the gears without putting on a new water pump. Why go through most of the pain again a year from now when a pump is about 25 bucks.

The plate behind the water pump is being held on only by the gasket tack used when the engine was assembled. Pry it off using a wide blade chizel. Clean the plate very well both sides. I used a propane torch to help remove the cruddy gasket. The timing cover/gasket/plate/gasket/pump all stack together like a club sandwich. Be careful to keep probing the holes with a pointy screwdriver to keep the gaskets lined up.

I also learned that there is a whole lot of stuff bolted to a 460 with A/C. Take some digital photos before you start so you can remember where everything goes.

And the biggest lesson was???? Was it worth about 15 hours of backyard work???? You bet I'm Very Very Happy with the new found power. I'm going to take it over today and let Dad go for a spin. Only hope the gas mileage goes up also. Then it should when I first drove it with no foot on the pedal it wanted to run at 32 miles an hour.

Thanks to all!!!!!


__________________
1977 Econoline 351W (bought new)
1977 F150 460 w/lariat interior
1962 Farilane 500 221 v8 auto
1962 Fairlane 170/6 winter beater

[murraydav]

Your on the ball HeHehe. Yep I screwed up on my first post. Of course it is a 77 not a 67. I blamed my fat fingers for the typo and not checkin before I posted. As Steve Martin would say excussssssse Meeeeeeee. Funny you didn't pick up on the fact my 67 had a 460. Never was avaliable on a 67 right? Also back in 67 there was no F-150 and I don't even think a 390 was avaliable in F-100's in 67, cause I had a 67 F-100 that came with the dog of a 352. You being an old geezer would have something to say about the 352. Big heavy and slow to go right?????? How about the fact I said it has a Lariat package which was introduced in 78?

Have a nice day!!! And a genuine thanks for all those whom offered assistance.

[fordfreak1971]

murray all I have to say is, when you get bored with your stock 460 with junky 77" cylinder heads, go find a set of dove c heads or go with some aftermarket aluminum heads, change your pistons to the fuel injected 460 piston as these are a little cheaper than aftemarket. But you should change intakes ,I went with a performer rpm and my 460 liked it ,and the camshaft should be replaced to, on mine I went big, I would sugest one of comp cams cam kits soyou get the right springs,keepers,push rods ,ect to match your cam. this is how i built mine ,and it smoke the tires off my 78 F150 ,it would come off the line turning 7300 rpms, yea I know all you old farts are thinking not a 460 well try it and see.

[murraydav]

I'm a poor poor Canadian. The mods your mentioning could cost in the thousands. Also although the horspower would be awesome to have, my truck is running just fine as of now. It has only 104,000 and will live many more years in "stock" form. If I were to build the power my truck is still under classed in towing capacity due to the GVW. Therefore any exess $$$$ will be thrown towards buying a new diesel 3/4. Thanks though for sharing your knowledge. What happened to the MPG's up or down????

[68parts]

i just thought i had the same problem as you, the last posting will most likly be the cause of your leak, i was doing the same as you bought 2 2 dollar gaskets and began to take pump off to find out my timing cover is junk so redoing al the front end stuff i can for reliability, this is were im at with it,,new timing cover off ebay ,alum water pump ebay, and all other parts buying at local store,timing set,fuel pump etc. there is a metal plate that goes between the water pump and timing cover that is hard to find at the local stores so make sure you get that with the cover or the pump if you get the parts off ebay. im doing all this with the hopes of not droping pan, but? good luck

Yesterday after my fall oil change, I was pressure cleaning my big block 460 in my 67 1/2 ton. after a run there was coolant leaking between the block and the housing that holds the dip stick. Of course it it a blown gasket after 28 years and 120,000 she's shot. Off to parts source, no w/p gasket or block to spacer gasket. Of course I picked up a new water pump as I'm not stupid enough to do this all again next year. Tonight after work and supper I fight for a couple of hours with fan, A/C, power st., and alternator etc etc. So its dark and the w/pump is finally off,,,,now I see the part I though was just an extension is actually very large. Now my question-----how much more do I have to pull off to get the 2 & 1/2 inch thingy to come off so as to re-gasket the beast. Is it actually going around the crank as it seems. Looks like the fuel pump will also have to come off, which means another gasket. Am I indanger of leaking anti freeze into my oil pan? That means yet another gasket is needed. Have any of you been through this and is there a web site to walk me through the mess I'm in. I'm no mechanic but I am a dedicated cheapskate. None of my vehicles get to vistit the shop except for when automatic transmission magic is required. Thank the Lord there Fords and seldom break. However I feel as I have opened the proverbial Can-O-Worms......HELP!