390 Rebuild SUggestions

[birchymm]

yes I'm a lazy messageboarder, though I have looked through many searches, I didn't come across any threads that specifically addresses this issue. If there is, I apologize, and need to hone my search skills.

I have a 64 Galaxie. Currently it has a boat anchor 352 thats tired. I have procurred a 390 engine, from a 64 Ford truck. I am in the beginning stages of starting to plan on getting the engine rebuilt to put in my car this spring. I know the block is 390 as is the crank and piston rods, and the heads are too and nothing special. I've identified them. The engine is in pieces right now and has been years since been driven so it probably needs the works. Are there any suggestions of things that I should ask for above and beyond that the machine shop might not know about?

I would like the engine to be top end, but not crazy on the wallet. I'd like something that showcases how nice the 390s can be but I'm not going to be taking it to the track or anything.

One nice side note. I don't know how much difference it would make, but when I was buying the misc. engine parts I also got an original Ford (not after market) 427 mid rise aluminum intake. I know these aren't terribly rare, but I've seen them go for $500 + on eBay, so I figure there's something to them. As far as I've read this will bolt up just fine. Anyone know different?

As far as heads, is there a listing that matches cc's to Head ID? Also would there be any advantage to using the smaller 352 heads, or forking out the cash for a port and polish on the 390 heads?

Sorry if this is redundant to something else but I didn't see a similar thread anywhere. thanks!

[SnakeHerder]

If you can find it, Sunset Mustang's "Ford High Performance Parts Identifier" booklet is great. Author is Robert M. Winkelman. http://www.historyofcars-f.com/items/7923799724.html will get you one for $8.50. Covers most of the HiPerf Ford stuff, in a form you can stick in your shirt pocket when you go junkyarding or to swap meets. Steve Christ's book onrebuilding big-block Fords is a standard in this area, though I've found a couple of places where he was off a bit. Hard not to be. The casting numbers may or may not tell you anything, particularly on the newer cars.

The Medium Riser manifold is a nice item, and rarer than you let on. The heads that go with them are C5AE-R, and run 2.19 inch intake and 1.73 inch exhaust valves, and have substantially larger ports than the 390GT heads. 390GT has 2.02 intake and 1.55 exhaust valves. Still breathes okay - exhaust manifolds were the biggest restriction on that side. Intake manifold, of course, as well.

The aluminum manifold also weighs 50 lbs less. Look elsewhere for my Harley v. SS396 story for the light take on HP to weight. If youcan find some MR heads, that might be interesting. And a 1U crankshaft, which was originally Merc 410, but also used in the 428. Has almost a quarter inch longer stroke than the 390, and the 410 uses the 390 bore. If you bore .060 over (check the integrity of the block you get before trying this), you get close to the 428 dimensions (3.948 x 4.110 vs. 3.948 x 4.130).

I like the 390GT/428CJ cam for normal use. Mine pulls strong to about 6000 (a little over, really), and I'm running stock cam, Crane anti-pump up lifters, Crane springs, iron CJ high rise, and stock Holley 735.

Headers will help a lot, too.

I've got about $10k in my engine, but that was top of the line Bay Area machine shop, a new service short block, and $2500 to rebuild and vastly improve a stock set of C8OE-N 428CJ heads. I think I could do one for a LOT less, if I weren't worried about date codes, casting numbers, and so forth.

I've got a 390GT intake I might sell, but I'm guessing you could get one locally for less than the shipping to get one from Calif. I'd stick with the MR if you can find heads.

Maybe someone else has an opinion on the MR manifold on something like the Mustang GT heads with port work, or the 428CJ/427LR heads. - I take that back. I just looked in my pocket guide, and the port sizes for the MR and CobraJet manifolds are the same. 1.24 x 1.94 inches. All the cc sizes are in the pocket guide, too. Email me if you have a casting you want looked up, or get one of the books from someone like Tony D. Branda, or Ken's Cougars, or Mustangs Unlimited, or such.

Heck, if you're not going to use the MR, let me know. I might want it for my F100.

[SnakeHerder]

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/ite...atKey=EMUSTANG may work better. They're $6.95, and I can't get Sunset Mustangs' website to work...

[SnakeHerder]

Hi Denny - That's about what I figured, but I didn't have all the math. Thanks! Oh, the Sunset Mustang HiPo parts book lists the 1U crank as 3.948 stroke. Is that off? Wouldn't surprise me - I've found at least one error in every book I've got.

[Mike P]

Well, before you start buying parts, there are some considerations to look at, the most important being what you want the car to do when you get done with it. I'm not sure what you mean by. ".....I would like the engine to be top end...." But one of the first things to determine is if you are going to use it as a local cruiser or a long distance hauler.

Let me start off by saying I thing the 64 Full size Fords are a neat car. They do have a have a major disadvantage THEY ARE HEAVY. It depends on who's book you read and who you talk to but realistically your looking at a car that is pretty close to 4000 pounds in stock trim (you can always find a "feel good figure" but talking to the guys that have actually weighed theirs the figures range between 3800-4100 pounds depending on how there optioned.

My experience is that the majority of the 352/390 automatic cars came with 3.00/3.10 rear gear ratios and many of these cars have been changed over to a taller tire over the years. Your selection of rear end gears will have as much or more of an impact on how you like the car than the selection of engine components. In generalities if you building a highway cruiser, I would keep the gearing in the 3.00 to 3.25 range. If it's going to be used as an around town "impress the locals" car something in the range of a 3.70-4.10 is a fun gear. A compromise between the two would be a 3.50, not too bad around town and livable on the highway, but not really the best of either. What is ideal in these cars is an overdrive with deep gears and while there are a couple of options to do this none are cheap.

Moving on to the engine, the basic 390 is pretty good just the way it is within its own limitation. First off don't plan on a 7000+ RPM engine without spending a whole lot of money. These engines will live for a very long time if you keep the rpm to a reasonable level (personally unless a lot of work $$$ have been put into the bottom end I'd try to limit it to 5500-5800 RPM and build accordingly).

Short Block: I would start with a GOOD basic rebuild, bored only as far as needed to clean up the cylinders, crank turned or polished as necessary, and new cam bearings. I can't stress this enough, the block and oil passages completely cleaned (if you get the block back and all of the galley plugs have not been removed, send it back and have it redone. Keeping the RPM to a decent level and compression no higher than 9:1 cast pistons will do fine. If the engine your building has a spring and button on the end of the cam shaft, convert it to the latter thrust plate (2 holes have to be tapped in the front of the block). Select a cam that makes good TORQUE in the RPM range your going to operate the engine at. There is always a lot of discussion about oil system mods to the FEs (opening up oil passages, restricting lifter galleys, high pressure/high volume oil and on and on and on) MY own personal opinion is that the stock system is fine AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THE RPM BELOW 6000 RPM. The major changes I would recommend are in the oil pan area. The 64s use a front sump pan, and under hard acceleration the oil tends to move away from the pickup. Pick up a pan with a baffle (PAW sells a cheapie chrome unit with a pretty good baffle in it for about $50) and use a windage tray with a stock (NEW) pump and you'll be fine.

Heads: I think I heard it put best this way, " There are no bad FE cylinder heads, but there are some that are better than others". Just keep in mind that generally the bigger the ports and valves the more power it will make on top end at the sacrifice of torque at bottom end (this is where the weight of the car and the gears you choose really come into play). There has been a lot of discussion on the need for hardened seats when doing heads. In this case your building an engine to move a 4000 pound boat yes it needs them.

Induction: Look for something in a good dual plane design that makes power in the RPM range the engine is going to be running in. Even though when you do the math a 650 CFM carb is enough for the engine, my experience is that 750 CFM carb makes it a little more fun.

Exhaust: The stock log type manifolds SUCK and this is where you can make one of the biggest improvements in the car. You have some choices in headers, but not a lot. There are a couple of companies (Crites comes to mind) that make both long and short header to fit these cars. At the bottom of the price range your looking at plain steel (non-coated) for around $350. BY the time you have them coated/plated your in the $500 range, and you have a set of headers with all the normal gasket blowing problems associated with them. If you go this route, I would recommend using the copper flange gaskets. Another option is to use factory cast iron headers. These came in 2 versions a short set and a long set. The long version made better bottom end torque, but sacrifice a bit of ground clearance and are pretty heavy. They come up on E Bay on a regular basis and go in the $700 range. The short version is lighter and better on ground clearance and usually go for around $500.

Ignition: Defiantly upgrade from the points. Of course one option is the aftermarket. Another route (if you can follow a wiring diagram) is to use a stock motorcraft ignition system. It would also be a good time to upgrade the electrical system to an alternator.

Finally, if your going to just cruise the car normally the stock tranny will likely be OK. If your going to jump on it on a regular basis, I would also start looking for a 67 and up C6.

Hope this helps.

[birchymm]

Thanks for the info Snake. Yeah i wasn't looking at putting 10G into my engine, just whats needed to get the thing running nice. It all needs machine work, for aesthetics alone if nothing else. I have about 3 sets of heads to decide from. Two sets of 352 heads and the heads I bought with the 390 hodge podge. I came on here when I first bought the parts, and someone identified them as 390 heads, but don't have the casting number on me right now, so I'm not sure about the size. I'll have to grab the books for the rebuild before I start I guess. I found the old thread when I bought the thing and someone identified it as a 428 PI Intake. Would there be any reason why this wouldn't just bolt up?

Also, I'm going to get new Pistons, just cause. Are there any after markets that anyone would suggest? Or just get a set like the old ones and call it good? Like i said, I'm not looking to make a drag car out of it, but anything I can squeeze out of it for minimum cost would be nice. Thanks again

[birchymm]

thanks Mike, that was the kind of stuff I was looking for. I have two 64 Gals, one I took the engine out two years ago, the other one I'm driving. The one I drive is an OK car, the other a MI car. The MI car needs some body work, to say the least. I've had the oil pan off both, and I was wondering why one had a baffle and the other didn't. must be someone already made the change you were reffering too. I'll have to keep that in mind when I go back to building. I am basically building a cruiser, something nice to drive around, maybe even take on road trips (if gas prices ever come down). i have a family and like to go on nice summer drives, the car fits my three kids and wife easily, not too mention I could probably put everything we needed for a 6 month vacation in the trunk. I would like it to sound nice (mild cam?), and have some nice power when I needed it. Some of the cars that the guys I work with are restoring are a 69 Camaro Convertable(making it look like an SS), 69 Roadrunner, 71 Charger RT, 71 Duster. I'm not looking to beat any of these cars in a drag race, but still be respectable when idling next to them

I don't want to build a screamer thats going to tear up my car or my gears/tranny, I'd like to keep all that stock. I got all these 390 parts for $250 so I want to put them to good use. When I go to restore my other MI Galaxie, shes the one I'm going to make into a screamer. Custom paint, 9 inch rear, big 390, the works, but thats done the road a ways. For now I'm satisfied with getting my driver going with a nice setup.

[FFR428]

Snake, the 428 crank stroke of 3.948 is a misprint. 3.984 is correct. Hey BTW welcome to the forum. G.

[canadianal]

WELL HERS MY 2 CENTS
I REBULT A 390 FORD FOR MY DAD FOR HIS 3/4 TON CREW CAB ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO . MOST FOR TOWING AND DAILY DRIVING.
I JUST HAD THE HEADS PLAINED 15 TH AND PUT A USED ALUMINUN INTAKE DUAL PLANE PLUS STOCK 4 BBL CARB AND WENT TO DUAL EXHAUST. IT WAS A WORK TRUCK SO HEADERS WERE NOT A OPTION.
I PUT A CRANE CAM IN IT BUT DONT REMEMBER THE SPECS BUT IT WAS BASICLY ABOVE STOCK A BIT BUT WITH QUITE A BIT OF LIFT.
THIS WOKE THE MOTOR RIGHT UP WITH A LOPY IDLE AND IT RAN AMAZINGLY STRONG . IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT MOTOR IN A CAR.

[SnakeHerder]

FFR428, thanks. Like I said, doesn't surprise me. They all seem to have a misprint or error somewhere. Looking at it, the little parts ID book has it 3.98 in the engine specs, and 3.948 in the crank specs. The book is still welcome in my glovebox...

Thanks for the welcome.