It seems to me that you need to eliminate the resistance wire.
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It seems to me that you need to eliminate the resistance wire.
If you mean the resistance wire from the ignition I eliminated that a long time ago when I installed pertronix on the old engine. Please tell me if you mean something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by NTFDAY
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
No, that's what I was thinking, but I'm pretty sure you need 12v to the coil and it appears that you're dropping it somewhere.
Yes, I have full 12V to the coil. It drops to about 9V from coil to distrib.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
I've tested the coil per these instructions I found on Stangnet:
to test the coil;
get an Ohm meter and
check primary resistance between Pos and Neg terminals on the coil
resistance should be 0.3 - 1.0 ohms
check secondary resistance between Pos term and coil wire terminal
resistance should be 8000 - 11500 ohms
repeat secondary resistance test between Neg terminal and coil wire terminal
resistance should be 8000 - 11500 ohms
check resistance to each terminal and gound(coil case)
resistance should be infinity
But my readings all come out less than these....e.g. secondary resistance on both pos & neg terminal are at 7000ohms or less and the primary resistance is at 0. There is a spark from the coil to the distributor but it's not a "fat blue spark" like some say it's supposed to be....
Those readings will be off some using a digital or VTM, the true readings will be with a VTVM. Are you using the Petronix coil?
perhaps a silly question but.... you didn't install the coil backwards didja? We've all done it!
Just one of my usual questions, Randy. Do you have a good ground from the engine to the chassis, battery to chassis, ECM ground to chassis, etc.??? EFI systems and computer controlled cars must have a good ground!!!!
Actually sounds like a weak coil, I'm certainly not claiming any expertise on electronically controlled engines, still a neophyte on them but I have learned that good grounds are essential.
It's the stock '92 Mustang coil. I'm using one of those pocket circuit testers with the little probes and the sweep needle. My checks have been both with volts & ohms....Quote:
Originally Posted by NTFDAY
I'm certainly capable of a backwards install, Mike but this time the coil plug only goes on one way.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Yes, Dave, I've checked all those grounds and they seem to be good. Perhaps I should spring for a new coil and see if problem is solved.....not sure what else to do at this point.....:HMMM:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Thanks for the input, guys!!!! Always MUCH APPRECIATED!!!!
Well, it's not my checkbook, but that would seem to be the place to start, Randy! Wish you lived a bit closer, I'd pull the one off my 5.0 and let you try it!:LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Well, if I throw enough money at it, it will eventually run, right???:eek::CRY::CRY::LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
I guess if we had 2000 miles of coil wire we could test it off of yours.....:LOL::LOL:
I've got a Mallory that you can try but I'm sure time is becoming critical and shipping will be slow...
LMAO! I keep thinking the same thing on all of my projects. Maybe if I throw money on the hoods, they'll run? :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
It may be the TFI coil. Known to go bad and cause a no start. '92 Mustangs did use that system. IIRC it is attached to the distributor but it has been a while.
Funny that you mention that, Matt....I was just googling that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt167
Well, fellas, I've got a shiny new coil but still a no start!:mad::CRY:
I still have weak spark at the distributor. I've been googling my butt off and scouring over tons of Mustang forums & threads and it seems "highly possible" that my TFI module (bolts to dizzy) may be bad.....looks like I'll probably be throwing some more money at it tomorrow.....:CRY::(:3dSMILE:
Perhaps I'll attempt some of these tests on my TFI before I run out and buy one....
How to Solve an EFI No Start
Randy,Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
I totally forgot that you were using the stock Mustang electronics. The module on the side of the distributor is almost certainly the culprit, and they can go out in a heartbeat. I suspect that you've found your culprit. One tip - there's a "special tool" that's really just a very thin walled socket with a t-handle to get the two retaining screws loose that hold it in place. It's worth the six or seven bucks, or you'll be grinding down a socket. And don't forget the di-electric paste when you put the new one on, or the new module will have a short life.
Thanks, Roger! Sounds like a likely culprit to me, too!! I've also read about the "tool". Looks like the TFI module comes in a wide range of prices and some suggest replacing the PIP, too. I've even seen rebuilt distributors for the price of some of these separate parts.......obviously, the idea of a "budget swap" went out the window a while back!!:eek::eek::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
Yeah, I was going to suggest you look at swapping out the distributor as a unit, but knew you'd be looking at that option, too. Who knows, you might find one of the auto box stores that offers a lifetime warranty?Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
My only real experience with Thick Film Ignition (TFI) was with a friends pickup truck, that thing seemed to just eat the module on the side of the dizzy. He changed so many of them he kept one in the glove box! One night we were headed home when the truck just died.. we popped the hood and I had him turn it over while I watched for spark at a plug wire. There wasn't any but I did see something spark where it shouldn't have! Turns out one of the injector wires had rubbed bare against the fuel rail! We taped it up and the truck never "ate" another module.. So any short under the hood seemingly will take out that module. Keep that in mind when working with the wiring and maybe disconnect the module first to protect it.
That's a good note, Mike but hopefully, bare wires won't be an issue for many years since they are all brand spankin' new!:D I've read many posts where the Mustang guys are packin' extra TFI's in their glovebox, though!Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Here's an example of distributor pricing List: Search for 'distributor' | O'Reilly Auto Parts
Any of you guys have any experience with any of these brands? Napa also shows a rebuilt w/18K warranty for $98. Pepboys has the ACardone stuff.....:confused::confused:
some show steel gear, other show cast iron.....I'm thinkin' mine is steel but all these choices have me second guessing......:HMMM:
Thick Film Ignition??? Who came up with that name, anyway??? Sounds kinda gooey and nasty!:whacked: Using the acronym TFI sounds much better but I can assure you if left up to me right now, the "F" does not stand for "Film"!!!!!:eek::eek::LOL::LOL::LOL:
:LOL::LOL:So "Fancy", or perhaps "Fantastic"?? ;):LOL::LOL: On my old truck the module went out as I was leaving the performance shop where I bought my EFI, and one of their guys hooked a rope around the axle and we drug it back to their shop area. New module and it started and ran better than it had in five years!!:D I had no idea that they got "weak", but the difference with the new one was amazing! Hope your experience is similar with the startup.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
R2, my point was intended to keep you from popping the darn thing while you're still playing with some wires!
Even if you're welding on the vehicle, unplug it!
Thanks, Mike! Makes sense. So, far I've disconnected the battery each time I'm jacking with the wires but you can't be too careful and modules & computers are involved....:)Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Thick film ignition is layers of conductive 'film' to create a control for the ignition. I think it was used because the film changes conductivity with thermal temps and that's why it was used
Geez, fellas!! I can't seem to catch a break of any kind....my parts guys ordered in a new distributor this morning. While waiting for that, I put in the new fuel pump. While dropping the tank I found a weak spot in my tank frame so I welded that up and reinforced it really good. So now the new pump is in, the tank is on, the new distributor is in but still no start. The fuel pressure tester shows zero at the shrader valve.:eek::eek: I cycled the pump at least 20 times with the key and still nothing. How much gas is required in the tank for it to pressurize? I might have a little over 2 gallons in there.....thoughts????:confused::whacked::confused:
Did you hook the pump back up after droping it out?? Don't get mad at me I had to ask.
Randy,
Not trying to be a smart a$$ in any way, but back in post #7 you mentioned that you snagged the fuel supply & return setup from the Mustang and adapted it to the truck. You didn't by chance reverse the connections, getting your "supply" piped to the back side of the fuel rails where it would be trying to backfeed past the pressure regulator, which acts as a check valve? I know it's a stretch, but there's something basic wrong here. Maybe unhook both the supply and return from the fuel rails, turn the key "ON" and see if you get flow from either line?
Sounds like you know me, Charlie!!:LOL::LOL: Yes, I reconnected everything just like I had it before. The pump is cycling because I can hear it when I turn on the key.
Roger, it's a legitimate question....on the Mustang lines, the fuel supply line is larger than the return so it would be hard to mix them up until I get to the section that supplies the fuel rails. I assumed the supply line connects to the larger fitting that has the shrader valve in it and the return connects to the other one. If it's the other way around, please slap me and tell me to fix it!!!:LOL::LOL:
I'm pretty sure they'll only hook up one way at the fuel rails, but the tank end is new. That's where my concern would be at this point.
Maybe it is as simple as the fuel is to low right now... You had pressure before!
Here's a pic of the 2 lines that come into the fuel rails. They also connect to the steel lines coming from the tank down at the frame rail. Down there they are connected via fuel injection hose and injection clamps. It's very possible I had these reversed at that location.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6d63dfe7.jpg
Prior to today, I had the supply line connected to the lower one in the pic that goes directly into the fuel rail. And the return line was connected to the other one. It was connected that way when I got the 35psi pressure reading with the other pump.
After installing the new pump which shows no pressure on the test gauge, I removed the connections down at the frame rail to make sure I had good gas flow and I do. I held my thumb over the test hose and it builds up great pressure to the front of the truck.
As I looked at the fuel rails on the engine I started thinking maybe the fuel needs to go to the upper line in the pic first since that one goes to the fuel pressure regulator. I switched the lines but get the same results, no pressure at the shrader valve. Argh! Thoughts??
oh, here's a pic of the FPR
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0185bb5e.jpg
The engine turns over great. There is fuel to the front of the truck. I have fire to the distributor.
Ok, I just read on a Mustang site that the fuel needs to go directly to the injectors first and then pass thru the FPR on it's way to the return line. I'll switch the lines back the way I had them before....
Randy,Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Sorry, I've been away from the discussion. Yes, the FPR modulates to control the amount of fuel returned to the tank, keeping the fuel rail pressure within control range. Fuel feeds the rail first, and the regulator is on the end of the rail where the return line connects.
is it possible to have a faulty or blocked shrader valve? I appear to have good pressure up to the line connection below the shrader valve. Tomorrow I'll pull the section of line with the shrader and test it for blockage, etc. Beyond that, I'm kinda clueless at this point....Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
I can't see how a schrader valve can block. They are just a form of valve port like your tire uses for air welded on the outer diameter of the fuel rail. When is the last time this engine ran? Did you hear it run before you bought the wrecked car? My son's Mustang had been sitting for a year or more, and we went through much of the same trying to get his going. Turned out that every injector was clogged with microscopic particles of rubber that the ethanol had attacked in the injectors themselves (and the in tank pump, too). He bought a rebuild kit and took them apart, carefully cleaned everything and reassembled them. Started on the first crank.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
randy have you put a noid light on injector wire to see it you have power....ted
Thanks, Roger! It's been at least 10 months since the engine ran. When detailing the parts, I soaked the injectors in carb cleaner for a few days but had no way to really test them at the time. I installed new o-rings, end caps, etc, then masked them off and painted the "tan" portion silver. I suppose it's possible they could be clogged but I'm still surprised why my gauge shows no pressure at the shrader valve after changing the fuel pump when I seem to have great pressure to the connection just below it. Perhaps my gauge is faulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
At any rate, I'm going to go thru those "no start" tests in the link I posted early to try to narrow down the problem. It's at this point that some would hang a "For Sale" sign on it.....but not me!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL::CRY::CRY:
Thanks so much for all your help!!!! and the rest of you guys, too!!!