Thanks, Ted! That will be one of the tests I'll perform today....that's a good name for that light cause I'm totally "a-noid"!!!!!:LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by ted dehaan
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Thanks, Ted! That will be one of the tests I'll perform today....that's a good name for that light cause I'm totally "a-noid"!!!!!:LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by ted dehaan
Randy,
Here's a good writeup on what it takes to clean injectors - Fuel Injection Technical Library » Fuel Injector Cleaning That little screen filter in the top is what gets plugged easily, as it's a very fine mesh and can "gunk up" sitting idle. You can buy a "kit" off of EvilBay for around $25 - maybe cheaper if you shop. Not sure what the local box stores charge -http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2054436.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=ford+injector+rebuild+kit&_sacat=0&_from=R40 One of the keys, as I understand, is to energize the injector momentarily while blowing back through it with the filter removed. You don't want to keep it energized too long, as they are made for pulse operation, and you'll burn out coils with a sustained voltage and no flow.
What type of gauge are you using? One like a tire pressure gauge using the schrader valve?
Thanks, Roger! That's a good write up. Here's a simple little video for cleaning them, too. cleaning fuel injectors yourself - YouTube Perhaps a little redneck but, hey, if it works.....;)
I bought a fuel injection pressure tester kit the other day at Oreilly. That's what I'm using on the shrader. As previously stated, with the other fuel pump it showed 35psi. Now it shows nothing.:CRY:
If you press on the schrader to relieve pressure (rag to protect face) is there any residual pressure in the system? Just thinking if you had enough "gunk" maybe it plugged the schrader, or the tube on your gauge? Grasping at straws here....
Yes, I'm quite familiar with those "straws" at the point!! Not sure where the gunk would have come from, the fuel spewing out of the line just below is clean, but pressing on the shrader does nothing but dribble a tiny bit of fuel. Weird!Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
I'm going to check it out now....
That video mentions if the injectors are open there'll be no pressure.. could yours be energized right now? If so, check the cylinders for gas!
Ok, the injectors are pulsing, there is fuel, there is fire but.....
Just to be sure my injectors were clean & working, I pulled the intake again and removed the fuel rails and injectors. Based on the little video in a previous post I devised my own little redneck cleaning & testing process....:eek::eek:
Went to the parts store and bought some 5/16" vacuum caps, carb cleaner & little audio-sized wire connectors since I didn't have an extra injector connector laying around. I used the pin to puncture the top and the vacuum cap and inserted the red tube from the carb cleaner.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psdf4b07a4.jpg
I attached a couple of connectors to a couple of wires and slid them on the terminals of the injector.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psb6ec5459.jpg
The injectors only require 5volts. I had an old battery charger with a 6volt setting so I used it...
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psb879c03e.jpg
I attached the red tube to the carb spray while touching the red wire to the hot wire on the charger....(I already had the other wire clamped to black) Oh, I had to use a hose clamp on the rubber cause the pressure from the carb cleaner blew it across the garage...:LOL::LOL:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ps63ba4b9d.jpg
It worked like a charm. After several blasts the injectors were spraying clean & strong.
I reassembled everything......and nothing has changed.:CRY::mad::confused:
I loosened the hold down bolt and rotate the distrib with the key on. As it rotates the fuel pump primes and the pressure gauge jumps to 45psi, then back to zero.
That's a very neat cleaning/testing rig you came up with! I had a thought about the fuel rail - with it off and the FPR removed have you blown air through it to ensure it's not plugged?Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
The timing advance step proves that the pump primes and comes up to pressure, but that going back to zero makes me wonder if your fuel pressure regulator may be bad, or that you might have an injector stuck open but you proved they cycle? On my '33 the pump comes on, primes the system, and then the system holds pressure for quite a long time with the engine not running. Sounds to me like your's is letting the pressure bleed back to the tank. Sure would be nice to be able to swap one from a known good engine for a test, but you can get one for less than $20, or less than $50 for MotorCraft. Hate to throw parts at something, but this one seems to be pointing to a problem?
Thanks for the comments on the cleaning/testing rig. It's not perfect but it worked. Those carb cleaner cans really crank out some pressure and those rubber vacuum caps weren't really designed for solvents so it takes more than one to get the job done.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
Yes, I made sure the fuel rails were clean while I had it out. I cleaned them before I put it together the first time but it seems I have to do everything at least twice!! Argh!
As for the FPR, I put a new one on the other day. Is it possible that I screwed it up when I reversed the fuel lines for a bit on Saturday?
So, far, with all these efforts, it still just turns over with no attempt to start.....I just don't get it!
I wouldn't think back pressure would hurt the FPR. We're overlooking something basic, but I have no idea what at this point. You've verified good spark during crank, not just ignition power when "ON", right?Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Just a thought, is your gas cap vented? If so wouldn't that not allow the system to pressurize?
Yes, it's supposed to be a fat blue spark at the distributor according to what I've read. I'm not sure how "fat" is fat but I do have blue spark at distributor when cranking.Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
The tank is vented thru a charcoal canister. The cap is a "push thru" type but it seals when closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by NTFDAY
I just got off the phone with Justin at Tanks, Inc. regarding the fuel pressure issue. He suggested (easiest to hardest) swapping the FPR, making sure constant voltage to the pump, then if all else fails, drop the tank to make sure the pump installation was correct. If the clamps on the fuel pump line in the tank aren't tight enough, it could be losing pressure there.
So, I'm planning a way to put my pressure gauge where the fuel line disconnects at the frame rail. That will keep the FPR out of that reading. If that pressure is constant, I think the pump installation should be good. Will let you know if that works....
Ok, gents, IT RUNS!!!!!!!!:3dSMILE::3dSMILE::3dSMILE::3dSMILE:
So, here's some of the day's drama.....spoke with Justin at Tanks, Inc again because I couldn't get a consistent fuel pressure reading. He thought it could be a bad fuel pressure regulator or maybe I didn't get the clamps tight enough on the fuel pump install. Argh! I dropped the tank again and checked the clamps just to be sure. They're tight for sure now!
Then I talked to the tech guy at Ford Racing....extremely helpful guy! He said if you have power, fuel & air, it will start!!! He encouraged me to check the timing again. I decided to put my compression gauge in the #1 plug hole just to make sure I had TDC on the compression stroke. Of course, you know where I'm going with this....:eek: I was 180 degrees off. After I restabbed the distributor I got my neighbor out there to crank the key while I played with the timing light & distributor. While twisting on the dizzy, it fired up!!! and continued to run!!!! After some more tweaking, adding more trans fluid and cleaning up some mess, I took it for a spin!!!! It sounds healthy. I'm soooo stoked!!
Will snap some more pics tomorrow! Thanks for all your help!!!!!
hooray!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
I am so happy for you!!! AWESOME!
I'm so glad you got it running.. I won't even harrass you about the pics right now!:LOL:
.....................:d
Way to go Randy, yes we will need pics...!
I know your feeling well. Glad it was so simple a fix.
Does the distributor explain away the erratic fuel pressure readings?
To be honest, I don't know. The "new" distributor I bought was actually a $100 Chinese knock off complete with new TFI & PIP. It was in the truck when it finally started but it had a weird wobble to it.....not loose in the hole but like it had a bent shaft or something.:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by firebird77clone
I jerked it out of there and put my Motorcraft unit back in. It's solid and works great. If only I had rechecked the timing issues a week ago I probably would not have needed a new coil either.....:o:o:o:o:o I'm sure I can get a refund on the chinese distributor but the coil is mine to keep. That's ok. It's a Standard Blue Streak made in the USA and matches my engine....and really, isn't that what matters most???:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
As for the erratic fuel pressure, I gave up and took the test gauge off before it started and haven't put it back on since. Perhaps, the gauge is bad cause the truck now has no problem starting every time......YAY!!!
Yeah, back when I was considerably younger I subscribed to the philosophy that most unidentified "noises" were best addressed by turning the radio up louder :LOL::LOL:;):rolleyes: In a lot of cases it worked, too! Kinda like getting that troublesome gauge out of there so it doesn't cause any more problems. :3dSMILE::3dSMILE:Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
When you are comnecting to a schrader valve, you need a compatible coupling that will compress/open the valve or you won't get any reading----
I'm using an actual fuel injection pressure test kit that included the adapter for the Ford shrader valve. I haven't tried it since the truck started but prior to that, it would show around 42psi when cranking but immediately go back to zero when the cranking stopped.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
Believe your guages(if you know they work) if your guage showed pressure while cranking and zero when you stopped cranking, you had pressure while cranking-------------
I believed the gauge when it was cranking but it should hold the pressure in the fuel system when the cranking stops. That's why I started questioning the gauge because I tested all the other things that might cause pressure leak-down.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
Holy crap, fellas, I'm loving this engine swap!!! I finally figured out how to use my digital timing light and the truck runs smooth & awesome!!!! The 50 series Flowmasters are a little louder than I expected but when I finish running the pipes out the back, it should quiet down a bit.
I know I promised more pics and must confess I missed a couple of good photo ops....yesterday I hoisted the old 352/cruiseomatic into the bed and hauled it to the car wash. Kinda surreal seeing the "transplant patient" hauling around its old "organs".....:LOL::LOL: would have been a fun pic.
I installed a tach today and cleaned up a little more of the wiring stuff. It's all coming together nicely. I've still resisted putting the fuel pressure testing gauge back on the shrader valve.....:LOL::LOL: I also returned the Chinese distributor for a refund!!! Won't make that mistake again.....maybe....
This won't look much different than other pics but here's a shot of the engine from yesterday after I drove it around the neighborhood.....at least it's a pic!
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8e4b3c11.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9488c0bc.jpg
Looks great in there! Gotta agree on the digital timing light. That "dial back" feature where you can set the desired advance and then simply shoot the zero alignment is trick! Makes things sooooo much easier once you figure out the setup. Don't know how we did without them for so many years!
Hey, any of you guys know of a good leak-proof remedy for connecting the trans lines to the radiator? My radiator has barbed hose fittings but the steel lines are just plain. I'm using 5/16 oil resistant hose with small hose clamps. Can't seem to get them tight enough to stop some seepage and I hate seepage! Would have been nice to flare the lines with proper fittings but they are just a tad too short for that.:(
Thoughts?
put a slight flare on the tubing then the clamp on that ..should stop leaking
#1 Two hose clamps
#2. Use a tubing cutter to score a series of rings, about 1/8" apart.
#3. I had a hydraulic flare tool which had an adapter that would put a raised ring in the tubing, I think it was for an A/C application, but it made for an absolute leakproof connection for rubber tubing.
Thanks for the pics R2.. I was getting "nervous"... ROFL..
I use compression fittings on the steel line with Barb fittings for the hose end. But putting a small flare works very well also!
Hey Fellas, I'm continuing to tweak things on my truck and trying finish up the exhaust, etc but I need some help figuring out the charcoal canister situation. I installed the canister from the Mustang because everything was set up for it when I planned on using the OEM wiring harness however the aftermarket harness doesn't have the connector for the purge valve solenoid. In order to use the charcoal canister as vent for my fuel tank and also for it's intended purpose to recycle extraneous gas fumes thru the engine I thought maybe I could use a vacuum controlled purge valve like in the pre-EFI engines. I ordered a valve for a 1982 Mustang 5.0. It looks like this:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psc14dbae9.jpg
As you can see, it has 3 bibs and I'm not sure how or where to hook them up to make them work with the EFI system. Here's a vacuum diagram for the 82 Mustang, which was carburated:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ps70a04194.gif
It appears that the left (black) bib goes to the canister, the top/middle(orange) bib goes to a VDV (vacuum delay valve) then to a VCV (vacuum check valve) then to the carb. The third (black) bib appears to go to the PCV valve?
So, can any of you interpret how this might be configured to work with my EFI setup? Would I need those additional VDV & VCV valves before connecting to the intake? Would that third bib actually tie into the hose on the PVC valve? Is there some easier way to get the benefit of the charcoal canister? Help!:whacked:
Arrrrrgh! I had a bunch of stuff typed and lost it!! :mad:
Just thinking out loud here, which is dangerous but that little valve looks like a two-way that opens with vacuum. What if you ran your tank vent into the canister, then your canister outlet to the bottom black and tee the top black into your PCV line, and the orange to manifold vacuum. Tank vents to canister, engine starts and sucks the canister fumes into the engine? Problem is, it keeps sucking as long as the engine runs.
Soooo, if we could find a three way valve or two, ports 1&2 connected, 3 blocked, and then with vacuum 1 blocked, 2&3 connected? Now you put one in the line from the tank to the canister, tank to 1, canister to 2, 3 to atmosphere, orange to vacuum. Now when the engine starts, we suck the canister out using atmospheric air, but UH-OH, the tank's blocked and will implode (engine will die).
Soooo, we take a the second three way valve, put it upstream of the first one in that tank vent, put the line to the canister (the line running to the first valve) to port 1, tank to 2, and atmosphere to 3. Now the vent runs through the first valve, port 2 to 1 when off, into the second valve; and through the second valve port 1 to 2, collecting fumes in the canister. When the engine starts the first valve switches the tank to an atmospheric vent, which is OK because it's under negative pressure now, and opens the canister inlet to atmosphere, which is OK because it's also being sucked down by engine vacuum. The only missing piece might be an orifice in that line going to the PCV to limit flow and keep your engine vacuum where it needs to be because I've just created a big vacuum leak!!
This is either right or terribly wrong, but I predict you'll have to read it more than once to decide.....;):LOL::LOL::LOL:
Holy crap! Would have been way easier if they had just wired the purge valve solenoid connector into the new harness!!!
Roger, I'll have to study what you said and let it soak in.......:HMMM: from what I've read, the VDV (vacuum delay valve) on the '82 diagram is a one way valve. It runs to the VCkV (vacuum check valve) then to SAFV (don't know what that is) before going to carb. Maybe all 3 of these "valves" need to be in place before going to the intake on my setup??
Currently, I have the line from the fuel tank to the canister attached. The other hose that usually goes to the purge control valve is just open for venting purposes. Is that a problem?
I'm missed all this part of my training......what training????:LOL::LOL:
Randy,Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
No, I think with what you have now the canister will block any fumes from the tank vent, but it's capturing the vented fuel, absorbing the volatiles, and not burning anything. You're handling the aroma, but not fulfilling the intent of the canister according to the design - that means per the EPA. I wouldn't worry with it unless you're feeling particularly "green" about it.
The valve lineup I described sounds difficult, but it's really just some vacuum hoses and should work pretty slick assuming one can source a pair of three way VCV's, which I think are readily available. Maybe if I sketch it out, scan the sketch and post the diagram.....
Thanks, Roger! It's not about feeling overly "green" and I have plenty of opinions about the EPA, none of which are flattering to them :eek: but if hooking this thing up properly lets me milk a tiny bit more from a gallon of gas rather than evaporating into the air, then it's doing its job. :) So far, I've only smelled fuel from the canister once and that was after I just shut off the engine & lifted the hood.Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
I'm a little confused on the 3way vs 1way VCV's you're talking about. Please don't spend a lot of time sketching/scanning a diagram though! You've got a car to paint!!!:D
I think that first valve is only "in operation" during high vacuum situations. I think it opens the diaphragm at idle or upon deceleration. The orange side goes to the PCV Valve for the vacuum signal. The other two would go to the carbon can and the intake.
Or I could be all wet! :LOL::LOL::LOL:
Randy,
I started making the sketch "pretty", but it got messed up so I went quick & dirty and added it to the previous post. I think it'll work, but like I said I'm pretty sure you'd need an orifice in the line from the canister to the PCV to keep it from being a vacuum leak unless that canister provides more flow resistance than I think it does.... Now others can tell me why it won't work, or what else it needs... One thing I don't know is how much the charcoal canister is supposed to be vented? Do they get "purged" into the engine for extended periods, or just for some fixed time so as not to run so much air through the canister? I'm clueless.
I still haven't done anything with the purge control valve but I did finally finish my exhaust system. It's amazing how extending the pipes out the back can quiet things down so much in the cab. I'm using 50series Flowmasters, which are supposed to be a little more mellow but without tail pipes, they still set off a few car alarms.....:LOL:
I bought a few mandrel bends from Summit Racing and cut to fit. Here are a few pics:
left side over the axle, around the tank & out the back...
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ps772d8a2a.jpg
Right side....
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ps946cc73d.jpg
Finished up with some 3" tips...
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...psb87b39d4.jpg
Good to hear your making progress. Pipes came out nice and the tips "make it" a finished job.
Still like the 5.0? Does your carbon can have a vent on it?