Looks very nice. It just hurts shelling the dough for those pristine pulleys! But boy howdy, they do look great.
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Looks very nice. It just hurts shelling the dough for those pristine pulleys! But boy howdy, they do look great.
Steve, I agree, but I paid $1350 for the whole setup - shorty Ford water pump, AC compressor and alternator. Those three pieces alone are $650 to $700 and I still had no pulleys, brackets or bolts. Other guys (March, Vintage Air) make their own front covers from billet, putting their costs about $1000 more for SBF kits, and they are one to two inches longer than Rocky's. The main driver for me was getting all of the pieces to have belt alignment without chasing parts and pieces for weeks, and trying to cabbage together brackets from OEM parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by stovens
Dave, you'd be welcome any time - just give me a heads up when you're coming. I also told the guys at Sehr that a road trip to Sioux Falls was possible for a good shakedown once the beast is together - I won't say "when it's done" because it will probably never to "done done".Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Yeah, we were talking the other day about maybe getting down to the big track either for a NASCAR event, or maybe to the drags.... Have to see how things go. Still so dang cold and nasty around here I just don't feel like going anywhere!!!
Wow looks great, them pullies set off the motor too.
I'm scared to ask what you were using for bate to get that thing to follow you home.
I can't get a stray cat to follow me home with ten cans of open tuna!!!
Kurt
Heck Dave you can come to Northern Ca. for a visit and free ride, Just be prepared to force the shifter into neutral or be Fred Flintstone with the feet thru the floor for brakes!:3dSMILE:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
I know I say the same thing every year about this time, but I hope to get all my business stuff cleared up one of these days so I can get the heck out of here for awhile.... This nostalgia racing is getting to look tempting, been doing some research on it....
For this summer, I'll be lucky to find enough time to escape long enough to make it down to Kansas to visit Rog and catch a NASCAR race....
I've been chasing a header solution for a couple of weeks now. Had two sets of aftermarkets in hand that both went back - one hit the frame and left no room for steering shaft (equal length FloTech's) and the Patriot's from Speedway built for the application did not fit my exhaust ports and I could not accept their method of sealing - where they build up the tube to flange weld on the back side, then grind that flat to form a narrow "donut" on each port but the "donut" was an ugly oval that extended above my machined surfaces. Decided to go with Lake Style's, and called Matt at Gear Drive in MN. After a measuring session, including making up a wooden mockup flange and stubs, we quickly learned that my splash aprons would have to be extensively cut down to clear the first three tubes on both sides with his 90* exit approach and my engine position in the frame. After a bit of talking Matt convinced me that the best solution was for me to assemble a "kit" and make my own lakers. With my Patriot experience I started chasing header flanges that fit my ports. Summit's search engine is great, but it led me to a choice of two flanges from Hedman, each with or without stubouts. A quick call to Hedman told me that one of them had splayed bolt holes on 3" centers instead of 2" stock bolt spacing. So I ordered a half dozen "J" tube bends and a set of bare flanges from Summit. Speedway had the megaphones at a 25% savings over anyone else, so they sent me those. The Summit packages came yesterday, and when I opened the box the header flange ports were a stock profile, 1.25 x 1.875, and they are stamped with a number that crosses to a complete header for a 351 Mustang. Hedman quickly confirmed that they are flanges for 1.75" primaries, not 1.625, and that their package was mis-labeled.:CRY: The good thing is it is Summit - once we talked through the details they fall all over themselves to make it right, sending the UPS guy back to pick up the package today, and contacting Hedman to get a direct drop shipment to me from GA. Hopefully I will have the right flanges in a couple of days...
What I learned from this is that a SBF can have at least five different port/bolt configurations, stock profile (rectangle) 2" bolts, square port 2" spacing, square port 3" spacing (Dart II style), rounded port 2.44" diagonal bolts, and high port 2.75" bolts (Trick Flow for one). The site, Headers By Ed http://www.headersbyed.com/__ford.htm#Windsor, helped me get to the bottom of the flange problem, and then Hedman was a great help walking me through their part numbers.
Here's a couple of pic's of the mockup that I sent to Matt, showing the interference on the splash apron - was on the wrong computer to post attachments earlier...
These are 1.5" closet rod stubs, so a 1.625 tube would be a bit worse. The solution is to come out of the header flange with a 2.5" radius up (and back on the front port) to sweep over the apron, then follow the line of the head back with the megaphone, angled to parallel the cowl and end before the door. I'll have to trim back the 30" megaphone about four inches or so, giving me a nominal 3.5" exit instead of 4", which is fine for the CC baffle inserts in stock form. Works on paper...
Cars are fun right?:confused:
I went through simular issues when building my T. It is an 85 roller 302 block with 73 heads. I ordered Speedway lakes headers (which ended up being Patriot) and they are a pain to bolt up. (Had to oblong a few holes to get them to line up) I was not impressed with their quality either. Pops has Sanderson limefires on his 27 and they bolt right up with no issues at all. Small block Fords while common can be a nightmare (and dont get me started on water pump and pulleys) spent two weeks ordering water pumps and pulleys trying to make them line up correctly.Good luck!
Don Jr.
Yep these Fords can be very tricky! Had lots of fit issues with parts for my 460. You don't even want to discuss c-6 trannys and the different torque converter shaft sizes. But when all is done it's nice to have an engine where the distributor is easy to work on!
I agree with Don Jr. about the water pumps, pulleys and don't forget water goosenecks for the thermostat!!!!!
Well, the latest is that Hedman discontinued the flanges I need, and they simply substituted oblong ports for 1.75" tubes under the old part number. The tech guy at Hedman agreed this sucks big time, and said that if I ordered their flange with stubouts for 1.625" primaries they expand the stugs to 1.75 and use the bigger flanges. I'm back to looking for flanges again...
On the belt/pulley/water pump alignment that's why I opted for the Rocky Hinge package - they sort all of that out, and as long as you have a compatible front cover it all fits.
Does Sanderson headers make anything that will fit?
Sanderson's inside the frame headers for SBF are all 1.5" primaries which chokes it down considerably. They told me that to go to a 1.625" tube they needed the car in their shop, which is not going to happen (they said this is their approach for any non-standard inside frame header). Sanderson advised they can do their Limefires (lakes style) in 1.625" primaries, but they come out of the ports at 90* which destroys my splash aprons.Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrumm
I have a set of stock port 3/8" flanges coming from Stainless Headers Mfg in MN ($60 plus shipping), and I will cheat the tubes back 1/8" from the back, flow the weld in and port the flange width to ease the flow some. Should be OK.
have a problem with brake boster on 66 fairlane fastback,hitting vaulve covers,installing 427 side oiler do's anybody know what to do. tns59
I decided to get the bulkhead in place between the trunk and cockpit, and found that the only way to do it was in four pieces. I had determined that plywood was a good choice for me, given that the main function is to contain an explosion, and secondarily to extend the time to exit in case of fire. Here are a few shots of the bulkhead.
I put in the two upper sections, allowed them to dry and then put in the two lower sections.
Today I got into the header problem, and I'm pretty happy with my result, having never tackled headers before. I wasted one "J-tube" having to re-fab my back pipe once, but I can handle $15 for a replacement. Here are some shots of side one - the challenge now is to make side 2 match.... No comments on the "duct tape welds" on the megaphone - I have not cut the primary holes in the megaphones yet, so I cannot tack them into place yet...
Well, tonight was one of those "DOH" moments - the kind one probably should keep to themselves, but that might also help someone else through the "..what's going on???" moment. I got my passenger side header back first, bolted it on to see how it looked, then took it loose to close the door and mark the cut line for door clearance - a critical issue on suicide doors. The cut line is at 2" from the end, which is OK but quite a bit more than I expected having not measured it before. Tonight I get the drivers side back, bolt it on, same drill, and the cut line is at 1/2"!! WTF??
Now logic says that the passenger side on a SBF is the lead bank, and that head sits about an inch farther forward, so what's going on?? I should have plenty of clearance on the passenger side if I only need 1/2" on the driver's, right?? Well, after looking at it a while one realizes that the heads are interchangable side to side, so the pattern of exhaust/plug/exhaust/plug on the driver's side becomes plug/exhaust/plug/exhaust on the passenger front to back. The back primary on the driver's side is 2.75" from the cowl, while the same pipe on the passenger side is only 1.25", a difference of 1.5" even considering the lead cylinder difference! Now it all makes sense, but it makes it even more critical to consider the total offset side to side relative to the doors on outside pipes, unless they run low beneath the door line. Thought this one was going to make me crazy, and not sure it didn't.... :HMMM:
Headlights - Lemons to Lemonade
I mentioned in another thread that I had managed to break one of my AutoLoc SnakeEye headlights. Recall I was looking for a lamp assembly that would give me H4 headlights, parking lamp and turn signal functions, and that Vintiques does have a set of inserts that provide that by putting a 3157 bulb into the main headlight bucket. (Thanks John Palmer for that lead!!) They are still a flat lens lamp rather than the OEM domed sealed beam. Here's what I ended up with instead.
(Note: I don't find a feature to place attachments inline, one by one, so they are lumped at the bottom. Also, due to the five file limit this message will be split into two parts.)
To start, this is the SnakeEye lamp, which had a crystal clear lens that shows the reflector and domed "snake eye" in the center. I was never overjoyed with the "modern look" of these, but I loved the idea of integrated turn signals and not having to add more junk to the front of the '33.
After looking at the lamp I went hunting for another socket for a 194A bulb, but was not having any luck finding anything but the OEM insert and twist type sockets, or a socket that could be glued in place leaving no access for future bulb changes. Since the light was trash at this point, my approach was to perhaps cut out the turn signal port and graft in a second tube, but I could not find that type of rubber socket anywhere. Speedway offers a neat little LED unit that can be added to an H4 headlight to provide a turn signal indicator, but their listing stated specifically that it would not work with their SnakeEye headlights.
I decided to sacrifice an old 201 sealed beam that I had pulled from my Jeep a few years back, to see if I could indeed remove the lens and possibly graft it onto the Snake Eye light, as described in the June 2010 Rod & Custom for a quad headlight installation. Using a new metal cutoff wheel in the angle grinder, safety glasses, gloves and dust mask I started a careful grind, moving around the lamp at the joint line. As stated in the article, after only about two or three minutes and 1/16" of grinding I was holding a sealed beam lens in hand!!
I sanded the mating edge smooth, put a slight chamfer on the plastic rim of the Snake Eye, and I now had a H4 light with turn signal section at the bottom, hidden behind a standard sealed beam! Looking at the SnakeEye without the lens I suddenly realized that the reason the Mr Roadster LED insert would not work with this light is simply due to the fact that the "snake eye" dome legs occupy the space required by the LED mounting ring so I ordered a set and had them in hand the next day (great Speedway delivery service!!).
(Continued....)
(Part 2)
That snake eye dome has no function other than looks, and behind a sealed beam lens it is not even going to be visible. I took it out, test fit the LED and Eureka!! it fit great!! Note the "dust" on the reflector which all be cleaned up before final assembly.
The little amber LED is direction sensitive, so it needs to be pointed parallel to the H4 bulb to hit the lens straight, and it is going to feel the direct heat of the H4 bulb but all of the wiring is back behind so I'm hoping it works OK - this is the intended use and installation orientation. The LED is not really bright, but in a dark shop it gives the headlight a sweet amber glow, and the turn signal lights up bright in its segregated section at the bottom. Here's the back side, showing the wiring.
And here's one finished unit, awaiting high temp silicone attachment after a thorough air blow and alcohol clean on the reflector and the inside of the lens, with the second one behind.
I really like the "traditional" sealed beam look, especially the domed lens of the original type lamps, and I really, really like having a three function lamp with the ability to easily service all three elements from the back. I may shop for a higher intensity LED for the parking lamp in the future, but for now I have something I like better than what I had, and it cost me $15.
Roger,
Buon pomeriggio da Napoli!
Looking good. What you have had to do is a good illustration of why the hair stands up on the backs of our necks when someone says "is that a kit car?" Like all we have to do is bolt the parts together.
Did Kansas ever pass the streetrod law? How about the requirement for saving receipts for everything down to the last nut and bolt? Are you going to end up with a big auto tax bill every year? (I might mention that I've had my '34 titled in VA for three years, and have never received a tax bill. :))
Not that I'm coming back to Kansas, but I'm still curious.
Ciao,
Jack
Jack,Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
It is great to see your name/avatar pop up here. I hope that your time in Italy (my mistake on Spain earlier) is everything you want it to be, and more!
Even though I started with a "roller package" where all of the major assembly work on the chassis was already done for me, I agree that the term "kit car" causes an emotion spike anytime I hear it :) My headlight adventure is nothing special, but it gives me a bit of pleasure to keep a look I wanted while gaining a functional feature.
The streetrod legislation in Kansas (SEMA laws) is a particular frustration for me. After the bill was allowed to die in a House transportation committee in the 2008 session I contacted the Representative that authored the bill (she and her husband have a street rod). From public record, the bill did not clear committee due to a letter from the Dept of Budget stating that it would require XX number of programming hours to rework the vehicle registration data base to recognize the new classifications of "street rod" and "custom car", and that the dollars to pay those expenses (less than $50k as I recall) had not been included in the budget for 2008. I was told that she had been assured that one of the junior members of the Transportation Committee would sponsor the bill for 2009 and push it through. About two months ago I went into the House of Representatives records and searched for the Bill by name and old number and found nothing. Long story short, with the health care and budget crises they "forgot" to introduce the SEMA legislation, and it is no longer possible to address it in this session. The Representative who authored the original bill asked me to "...send reminders to her, and to the junior representative who agreed to sponsor the bill in committee.." in mid-December this year to ensure that it was not forgotten again. :( I will do that, and I guess I understand that they have bigger fish to fry, but it is frustrating to have them not follow through with something, especially when it is seen as a process simplification.
For now we are playing under the same old rules - keep every receipt for things purchased for the car, including raw materials like bar stock and sheet metal, supposedly to prove that nothing is stolen property. I'm not sure about the annual property tax situation but will hopefully know in a couple of months.
Take care and enjoy the journey. When you get back maybe you can schedule a road trip to Kansas to visit old stomping grounds.
I know that there are at least two others that frequent this forum that are at similar points in their builds and have expressed interest in the way I tackle some of the things that are old hat to many of you, so I’m going to bore most of you with how I got the body off of the chassis single handed. Pictures follow at the end since there is no way to put them in line as I go. I used a Harbor Freight 2T picker with the boom extended out to the ½ T limit, still more than twice the capacity of the lift.
I had talked at length to Duane Noblett of N&N about how to lift the body, and following his advice I extended a single 2x6 front to back through the windshield/back window openings. I asked him specifically about any need to notch across the board to keep from putting load on the flat rim where the windshield glues in and adding a second 2x6 underneath to account for the relief cut, but it is a 1/8” thick lip and Duane said he had always just put a towel between them and had never had any problem. I decided on a five foot long board to provide some extension front & back hoping to minimize the strap to body rub a little, but there too a few layers of old sweat shirt material eliminated any friction. Rather than loop my strap and hook it around the two ends of the 2x6 (double strap through the hook, looped to each end) I decided to run the strap through the body and around the ends of my 2x6, since my strap had a safety factor of more than twenty for my nominal 500# lift. This allowed me to ratchet down the strap and keep my picker hook close to the roof, helping to eliminate concern with running out of picker lift capacity. I also put a little notch top and bottom on the ends of my board to take away any concern of the straps slipping off center. I marked my center point on the window openings for balance, put in several layers of T-shirt material as padding, tied the brake & clutch pedals all the way down clearing the firewall, removed the RR wheel so I did not have to lift over it and did a slow lift to check balance. I had the hook centered on the roof and it was quite back heavy. For mine, minus doors and trunk lid, the balance point was with the hook right at the rear edge of the door opening and I was able to move the hook very easily with the strap looped end to end. Small adjustments were by moving the whole board/strap. I only had to lift about ten inches to be well clear of the frame, pulled it back, rolled the stand underneath and slowly dropped it in place. After setting it on the simple frame I decided to add a bit more width to the frame at the mid-point, just to get the load out closer to the edge of the floor. Here are a few pictures of the process, which will likely be much easier to understand than my words.
Here are a few more, due to the five shot limit ;)
Worked out great Rog! Nothing got broke and nobody got hurt so it must have been a good plan, right???? That's a really nice heavy duty table to set the body on!!! What's next on the build up???
Good job, Roger. You have to respect a good jury rigger. :whacked:
Throughout my entire build, I never had a single person help me with lifting, moving or installing anything. That was part of the fun for me.
The first time I removed the body on my '34, I used an engine crane. However, I had a bit of difficulty keeping everything balanced, and it liked to swing around a bit too much for my comfort.
From then on out, I used two come-alongs attached to angle irons lagged to the ceiling rafters. On the rear, I had a 2x6 that spanned the trunk opening. On the front, I attached to the Bear Claw latch studs. I had to go from front to back to raise or lower the car, but it worked out pretty well.
The body cart is similar to yours, just built a little differently. I thought I'd add method to the thread just for another way to approach it.
Oh, and I did double check the loading on the ceiling (which was the floor of the bedroom over my garage) and the pull-out resistance of the lag bolts. Not a problem.
Dave,
Need to finish a few things on the chassis, like fuel lines, some work on the tranny mount plate, mount horns,Dave headlight conduits threaded into the frame, etc, then blow it apart for for prep and paint. Also plan to paint the underside of the body so it hopefully does not have to come off again.
Jack,
Pretty slick double come-a-long trick! I struggled with the approach on the cart, and finally downloaded a frame spec sheet from Wescott. With their dimensions I just used some wood and wheels laying around to build a rolling cart for convenience. Also have an old king sized mattress, and will flop the body on its side to work on the bottom, and to paint.
Just a quick post to show I've been getting a little bit done. I know that this basic stuff is probably boring to you guys who have built lots of cars, but a rookie approach may be of interest to others like me that are going through a first build.
As I stand back and look at my chassis there is no comparison to other builds on this forum (like Ken Thurm's :cool::D:cool:) where everything is run inside the frame with access plates, but mine will be safe and functional, and I did try to keep it neat and from being too ugly.
I mounted the fuel pump in a protected gusset which is still readily accessible from the bottom for future maintenance needs, but somewhat protected from road debris. The fuel filter is immediately downstream of the pump. Lines are mounted with Adel clamp pairs in tapped holes on the frame. Due to the congestion of the master cylinders (brake & clutch) on the driver's side I elected to go back to front on the passenger side, hugging the front crossmember and sneaking up the driver's front corner with both supply and return lines. Edelbrock put both fittings up front, but on opposite sides, using a crossover tube in the back between the two fuel rails. The front crossmember required some simple standoffs, which are just 1.5" aluminum angle with a little buffing. I also addressed master cylinder access, cutting a hole in the floor and using the piece removed as a "locater" for the panel, gluing it to a square panel with Bondo. I plan to add a couple of velcro tabs in the corners to hold it down, even when there is carpeting to cover it someday. :o Last is the horns, which I tucked in behind the master cylinders on the driver's side with a simple SS strap bracket, again drilled and tapped in the frame (Thank you, Mike52!!). Yesterday was getting the AC receiver/dryer and the coil mounted on standoffs that will be tucked up in the front corners off of the frame rails, hidden by the splash apron; and ordering some AC heater fittings so I can be sure of the clearances inside before I cut bulkhead holes. I also glassed in some little barriers on the back side of the dash to form a sealed plenum for the defrost air, and revised my approach on how to route that defrost air onto the windshield. Busy, busy, busy...
Very nice clean work. The braided stainless looks fantastic. It's a bugger to work with! Hopefully you don't have any stainless steel slivers!:eek::D
Steve, thanks for the comment. Actually the sheen in the fuel line pictures is deceiving - the fuel line is the Russell Pro Classic 3/8" line that Edelbrock supplies with their Pro-Flow XT EFI kit, and is a black poly/fabric braid material which is much easier to work with, much like nylon rope fibers. I elected to use what they provided rather than replace it with higher dollar stainless sheathed tube, figuring I can change it out later without much trouble if I don't like the way the Pro Classic stands up over time. For now I think the black cover with blue dot highlights will be OK against a black frame.
Very cool.Looks much better than the plain rubber I'm running!:3dSMILE:
Jack, Roger, like both of you I wanted to lift my body off but was alone. I came up with a rig something like Jacks! I checked on the lifting capabilities of lags and set 4 into the ceiling joists of my house at the time. Then, built a substructure into the body with 2 X 4's. Using some pulleys and 3/8" line, I could use my come along to shorten the line and effectively raise the body slowly and smoothly all by myself. Here should be a couple pics, if I do this right! LOL..:)
And here's another view. Seems we all came to roughly the same conclusions! :)
As the old saying states, "Necessity is the mother of invention", and some add that ingenuity must be the father...;)
So True! So True! :3dSMILE:Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
34-40, who made the body?
Sorry for the long wait in a reply. We were on vacation and just got back last night. The body is an old Gibbons. I got it out of MI. After I picked it up I called over to "He who will not be named" and they estimated it was an 80 or 81,82 by my description of construction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
At that point in time, Gibbon was making a good body. That was when they were located in Nebraska. Things went downhill after the business moved to South Carolina.
I am happy with it so far. Most everything fits like you would want it to. The fenders and running boards, the hood, all fit well "right out of the box" as it were.Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrumm
I thought it looked familiar. The wood reinforcement and the shape of the pocket for the drop-down rear window are obviously Gibbon. That time frame is back when Dwight was in charge, and they were building them in Gibbon, NE.
I bought some fenders for a '30 sedan from Dwight in the mid-80's, and they were top quality. That's why I bought my Gibbon body from SC. No further comment on that . . .:whacked: