Oh come on Dave.Fess up.Got really nothing to do with the wt.Your doing this just because.Be honest about it.
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Oh come on Dave.Fess up.Got really nothing to do with the wt.Your doing this just because.Be honest about it.
Well, if you don't understand why 160 lbs. is important to me on a street car, then you don't understand the cars I build.... The "once upon a time" stories on moly don't scare me in the least. So, your premise is that a MS car would not have broke at the strut mount or what??? How old were the cars, and how many times had they done big wheelies and come down hard??? Or what, it's impossible to have bad welds using a mig welder and Mild steel?? Too hot a range of what??? How long was the weld, was it welded on both sides, had the cars had any x-rays done after incidents??? By the way, who were these guys and when and where did this happen? 99.9% of the time that a weld fails it's because the guy doing the welding goofed!!!! Wrong filler material, wrong heat range, no penetration, whatever. If that's how you weld, then it doesn't matter what the material is, the weld is going to break!!!!!!! It's much easier to blame the material, I guess.
By NHRA rules and SEMA specs, moly is much stronger, which is why a moly car can be 1 5/8" .083 wall but mild steel has to be 1 5/8" .118 wall..... I guess me, Jerry, NHRA, SEMA, and all the guys who build moly cars are just stupid, huh??? Thank you, my cars do not have issues with the welds or the material used because I know what I'm doing and when in doubt I know who to ask..
I've got too many moly cars, parts, and pieces on the road and on the track to go for this once upon a time stuff. Maybe it doesn't work for you, maybe weight savings is not an issue with you. Don't know, don't care. I know what works, I know how to build it. All summer long I watch hundreds of sprint cars going at it on dirt tracks, all moly cars. All the NHRA Pro Classes and a lot of the Sportsman classes are all moly cars. Moly cars, when constructed properly, are lighter and safer---my criteria for my builds on my cars is the same, lighter and safer.... I've seen a whole lot more mild steel cars break welds and have parts failures then I have moly cars.
The only safe bet is to build every structural part of every car as though your life depends on it. If you don't know how to do that using the best (and lightest) materials then you still have a lot of learning to do......
and now you pretend to understand my motives for building a car??? Ok, once and for all. I've already taken 300 lbs. of ugly fat off just the body shell... The quarter panels and door skins will be aluminum, the trunk lid will be aluminum, the engine block and heads will be aluminum, the seats will be aluminum, etc etc etc. The whole theme of the build is light and fast.... I'm doing this because a 2500 lb. street car with 500+ hp and toque at the wheels is fun... If you don't understand that, then there's a whole lot about building Hot Rods you don't understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1gary
OK Gary, I have fiqured out what you are talking about--And you have a legimatute case against CM as those MUrf's cars were built with the heat treated CM , not the condition N CM that should of been used--that whole deal transpired into one of the biggest scandles and cover ups since the Nixon era Watergate---
It was all related to big cover ups by SFI, Sema, NHRA,John Force, DSon Schumacker, Goodyear and Nitro Methane fuel supplier----there was enough heat from above that they removed like 4 or 5 members of the SFI chassis people--even the NHRA techno that was involved admitts that it was bullshit, but that they thought that the whole future of professional drag racing hinged on successively covering up the mess--
It was so much of a panic to cover up that they sent out heat treated tubing to the race tracks with some welders to change tubing on site--I think that maybe some of it was even transported by Kalitta--is that where your info feed stems from???
That was on a McKinney car, wasn't it Jerry??? I remember something about it, that's when the big deal came up on the heat treated moly and pretty much everybody stayed with normalized moly? Don't remember it having anything to do with a Spitzer car......?
This exactly as I predicted.Jerry tells ya somthin and you accept it.I tell you somthin and it's a debate.Your Vail attempts to discredit me is also what I expected. This is why I didn't want to get involved in this at any length because you "think" you know too much and won't accept the help.I think nailed it too when I said you would bring up all those cars you have built.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
So Dave do whatever your going to do.
And how true it is Dave. To Quote you:"If you don't know how to do that using the best(and lightest)materials then YOU still have some learning to do..........And you do...............:rolleyes:
You see I have some reservations about your welding skill level.So now you did get it out of me.All of it.
And your right,it doesn't matter.:mad::mad:Same thing different moment as in all forums.You can only help those who are willing.
I'm done on this topic now.
Of course I believe what Jerry says, he's talking about a subject that was all the rage in NHRA racing some time back. I've known of Jerry for years, even watched him race a couple times....
As for my welding skills, some of my builds are in my gallery, none of them have fell apart yet.
What I was wondering, what kind of car and what strut mount broke???? Haven't heard of that so I asked....sorry.
Brand new Spitzer car with maybe 10 rounds on it.Joe Laspota (SP) owner/driver right turned into guard rail at NY International when it let go.Accident investigation revealed a weld issue.
Now Dave I am not saying CM material isn't better than MS.Threw out this whole thing all I am saying is for the mere difference of the frame alone of 160 lbs that the MS is more forgiving used on the street.Neither of us could account for how many MS Pro street cars that are out there with no issues at all.
Oh the other car was Mark Shifferly at Cayuga broke in the lights at about 180mph.Damm near killed him.Again a strut mount broke.Car's name was "Time And Money".
Just for a ref Dave.I have told you how we used to flip race cars in a yr buying distressed projects where the guys ran out of money.We have been successful at that because we knew what to look for and knew how to finish them out for resale.That included CM cars(alot of them in fact)where we did the updates welding.Last count was over 20 of them over the yrs.Like you we have never heard of a issue with any of them.Of course now the market has gone so soft that routine is pretty much dried up.
So this brings me to this point.I'm sorry I lost my cool.
What strut mount, a steering mount strut or a wing strut??
160 lbs of weight reduction is not a mere issue, it's a huge issue!!! I'm down to looking at places to cut a pound at a time and not effect the structural integrity of the car... As for cars breaking, of course they break, part of the game. One pass on a top alcohol or top fuel car is harder on a car then years of street use... Nothing against the big shops that build the cars, but when you get so busy you have to hire folks to do the work, part of the intense quality control required is gone. As for the normalized moly and my welding, one of my cars was a '67 Comet, finished and campaigned in 97...It's still out there going rounds now!!!! Another one, T-bird, done in '00 or 01 (CRS) and all moly has 11,000 miles and 200+passes on it at the drags. Not too concerned about my welds. But, I do all my own notching, fitting, bevelling, and welding. As Jerry mentioned, small welds work better then big welds and if you want to do it in a hurry you're in the wrong business... Yes, it's very time and labor intensive but it's my car and time and labor don't matter----what else would I do if I wasn't in the garage???... Granted, I may be on the verge of obsessive about the weight and power issues with this car, but it's going to be built the way I want it. I've gone so far as to call Autometer regarding the weight of their models of gauges!
I do get a bit irate when someone mentions that I'm foolish about the weight and the moly, and none of it matters, cuz it does matter, if only to me!!!! I don't do cars in a hurry, my normal build time for a street machine is about 2 1/2 years, some of them a lot longer! Building cars is what I do, when the Plymouth and the roadster are done and gone I'll be done with doing customer cars and strictly doing my own. Just exactly what I've wanted to do since I started this madness so many years ago....
so, sorry I lost my cool too, get a bit testy when someone suggests what I'm doing is wrong and foolish.....
I'm been lucky to have surround myself with friends who are the welders at Troyer Engineering.Lots of what I have done in the past is from what they taught me.What remains to be seen is what I got now after this minor stroke I had.Effect my left hand<I'm left handed> and I got the floor pan in Ole Yellar to do..............
Wow!!! Just started doing some rough figuring for a tubing order for the frame and cage...Forgot how long and wide these old cars are!!!!! Best price so far appears to be out of a company in Indy, got to get my numbers together then call a few of these companies and see who wants to give the best quantity break. BTW, it'll be all normalized moly---if anybody is going to be needing some for an upcoming project let me know, maybe we could both save a few $$$$$ on a combined order????
Hey Dave,
I thought of you yesterday when I was at a little car show in Pacific Palisades. Supposedly someone built this car as a gasser back in the day. The current owner found it in a old warehouse and restored it back to it's "original" gasser glory and still races it.
Yeah, I know you're not going "gasser" with your '57 now but thought you might get a kick out of these pics anyway.:D:D
Attachment 54293Attachment 54294Attachment 54295
Way kewl car Randy, thanks for putting up the pics!!!! F/Gas, mini-mouse motor in a heavy old '57!!!! Don't see how they didn't just flat pull the main webs right out of those blocks!!!!! Red line the tach, drop the clutch, and keep pullin' that handle til you get to the other end!!!!
Yup. I used go down to the big end of the track just to hear them go through lights at about 9 grand, or more. As I recall 5.86 and 6.17 gears were pretty common. And a big heavy flywheel!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Pat
Pat, going way back to the Thunder Valley days, do you remember Gene Bickelmeir's black '55 Chevy with that little bitty 265 incher, ran N/S with it???? National Record Holder for a few years....Anyway, that thing came through the traps at 8500!!!!!!!!
I remember Gene, seem to me he had a M/P Corvette too. Do you remember this one?
Attachment 54296
Attachment 54298
Rick Napravnik from Omaha had/has it, he had a de-stroked 283 in it. Actually made the roll cage out of heavy pipe to make the class weight. It was a wheel standing son of a gun. He was one of the ones that revved so high. He had it as a show car for a while, now it is street legal and he took it to Drag Week. Unfortunately he had a brake lock on him and kissed the guard rail. His brother Bill was one of my racing buddies.
Pat
Yep, sure do remember the coupe!!! Gene did have a Vette, never seemed to get it working as good as the '55 if I remember right.... Think Gene was out of Nebraska, too? About the same time Napravnik ran, there was another Chevy Coupe, '36 or '37, that went through the traps on his side---think the guy that had it was from Sioux City or thereabouts. Anyway, friend of mine ended up with the car, still has door handle with lots of gouges on the driver's door!!!!!
The Super Bee that I drove is with it's second owner now, still alive and well in Minneapolis---brings it out to Brainard once a year for the MoPar get together. It's still all done up in "Ryan Chrysler Plymouth" lettering, original paint, and still very fast!!!! The GTX (1st car I drove) is allegedly in Dallas, would be fun to find it again some day!!!!!
Almost time to start on the '57 again. I did get the body off of the rotisserie and have it mounted and squared up on the chassis table! Got to get a bunch of bucks together and order all the moly tubing I need to build the chassis and cage, also need to go to the salvage yard and find an LS engine to use for mock up.
Cool! Glad to see you starting up on this again, Dave.
On sale for $199 at Speedway, Dave LS1 Chevy Mock Up Block (G-Sale) - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop Might be worth that much for reduced wear & tear on the back??Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Cool! I've been waiting to see some of the mods you hinted about!
Never have used that product, but I have read that the block can be fully equipped has all the bolt holes. Sure would be the real deal for saving the back........ for body work ....L;)L
PS could sell it when done with it.
Got the '57 off the rotisserie and on the table finally! Got the body set and level then clamped the driver's door in place so I can use it to locate the front sheet metal. Getting a tubing order together so I can start on the frame and cage once I get the order finished up, waiting on a couple guys to see how much they need so we can combine orders and split the freight! Might not have much time to work on it for awhile yet, but at least it's on the table and I can do a lot of planning and measuring.
Wow, Dave!! That is both amazing & overwhelming to me!!! Great work!!
Those are some big tubs in back. Still planning on both street and track?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stovens
Yup, got to be able to do both or it just ain't a Hot Rod to me!!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:
"....Wow, Dave!! That is both amazing & overwhelming to me!!! Great work!! ...."
All I can do is echo Randy's comment.
Had a bit of time today so I started mocking up the front end on the '57. I've got all the internal bracing cut out of the fenders and hood to be replaced by some thin wall T-6 aluminum, should make it plenty strong and a whole lot lighter!
I love 57 Chevy's , and I am waiting patiently watching this build Dave
.
Ditto what Bobby said!
Thanks guys! I am having fun with this one, I guess because it's mine (for a change) and nobody is on my butt about how much it's going to cost or how long it's going to take!!!! I can just work on it when I feel like it and do the things I want to do with the car! I believe I'm finally done doing cars for others, other then a few of my long time friends who want to do some changes or updates to theirs! Maybe I'm actually retired now????:LOL::LOL:
Don't think you'll ever RETIRE unless it one of your car needing them :LOL::LOL::LOL:
Dave, you dont play around! It takes some big nads to take one down this far; you are the master.
You're probably right Charlie!!! Sure is fun to just have my own stuff to work on, I've still got a bunch of them to do! When I sold the big shop and started working out of my garage this is what I was going to do, just got interrupted but a dozen or so customer builds!!!! No more though, the last couple guys I had to put up with while building their cars have convinced me that it's just not worth all the grief!!!!
Thanks, but I'm far from being any kind of master.... What I am though is never satisfied with doing something half way, then later on wishing I would have been more thorough! The car is going to be light, lots of little places to take out bits of weight and many more places that aluminum can be used instead of steel!Quote:
Originally Posted by falconvan
Then there's the old saying, "if you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to have time to do it over?" Probably doing lots of little things that nobody will ever notice, but that's ok too!!!!
Lookin' Good Dave.
Dave,that's one of the reasons I decided to stick to the fiberglass,and only do our own cars..Had a gutsful of people wanting a $10k rebuild for half price,,''and can I pick it up next week,and pay for it next month'' scenario..:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Pretty much the same thing I was up against on this last episode, Robin... Didn't want to take on the project anyway, another shop had started it and we all know how that crap goes, takes twice as long to re-do something then to do it right. Anyway he talked me into it, further I got into the car the more things I found messed up. Make a long story short I ended up being the bad guy, charged too much and took to long. He tried to threaten me with the old, 'If it's not done by Monday I'm going to come and get it'.----After all the other grief I'd put up with during the course of the build I told him to just come and get it right now!!! and of course wrote off the monies he still owed me. Oh well, one more guy I can add to the list of people who will never again darken my doorway!!!!
I've got 5 of my own projects sitting right here, and a bunch more out at the farm. Going to just build cars the way I want them, if somebody wants to buy them, fine. If not, that's fine too, just more to put in line at the big auction when I finally tip over!!!!!
Dave, somehow I just now saw this build thread of yours and I only have one, er uh make that 2 things to say.
1. ALL TRI-CHEVIES ROCK
2. that was my era and I have been lost in the fifties ever since
keep the updates comin', friend !
Yeah, it was kind of back burnered for a spell, then went through a complete change of direction on theme for the build, and now I'm proceeding on with it, well, sort of, when I feel like it!!!!:whacked::LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by MelloYello
and if all that makes sense, you must be retired too!!!!;)
