57 Chevy Cruizer

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Well, if you don't understand why 160 lbs. is important to me on a street car, then you don't understand the cars I build.... The "once upon a time" stories on moly don't scare me in the least. So, your premise is that a MS car would not have broke at the strut mount or what??? How old were the cars, and how many times had they done big wheelies and come down hard??? Or what, it's impossible to have bad welds using a mig welder and Mild steel?? Too hot a range of what??? How long was the weld, was it welded on both sides, had the cars had any x-rays done after incidents??? By the way, who were these guys and when and where did this happen? 99.9% of the time that a weld fails it's because the guy doing the welding goofed!!!! Wrong filler material, wrong heat range, no penetration, whatever. If that's how you weld, then it doesn't matter what the material is, the weld is going to break!!!!!!! It's much easier to blame the material, I guess.

By NHRA rules and SEMA specs, moly is much stronger, which is why a moly car can be 1 5/8" .083 wall but mild steel has to be 1 5/8" .118 wall..... I guess me, Jerry, NHRA, SEMA, and all the guys who build moly cars are just stupid, huh??? Thank you, my cars do not have issues with the welds or the material used because I know what I'm doing and when in doubt I know who to ask..

I've got too many moly cars, parts, and pieces on the road and on the track to go for this once upon a time stuff. Maybe it doesn't work for you, maybe weight savings is not an issue with you. Don't know, don't care. I know what works, I know how to build it. All summer long I watch hundreds of sprint cars going at it on dirt tracks, all moly cars. All the NHRA Pro Classes and a lot of the Sportsman classes are all moly cars. Moly cars, when constructed properly, are lighter and safer---my criteria for my builds on my cars is the same, lighter and safer.... I've seen a whole lot more mild steel cars break welds and have parts failures then I have moly cars.

The only safe bet is to build every structural part of every car as though your life depends on it. If you don't know how to do that using the best (and lightest) materials then you still have a lot of learning to do......

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This exactly as I predicted.Jerry tells ya somthin and you accept it.I tell you somthin and it's a debate.Your Vail attempts to discredit me is also what I expected. This is why I didn't want to get involved in this at any length because you "think" you know too much and won't accept the help.I think nailed it too when I said you would bring up all those cars you have built.

So Dave do whatever your going to do.

And how true it is Dave. To Quote you:"If you don't know how to do that using the best(and lightest)materials then YOU still have some learning to do..........And you do...............:rolleyes:

You see I have some reservations about your welding skill level.So now you did get it out of me.All of it.

And your right,it doesn't matter.:mad::mad:Same thing different moment as in all forums.You can only help those who are willing.

I'm done on this topic now.

Of course I believe what Jerry says, he's talking about a subject that was all the rage in NHRA racing some time back. I've known of Jerry for years, even watched him race a couple times....

As for my welding skills, some of my builds are in my gallery, none of them have fell apart yet.

What I was wondering, what kind of car and what strut mount broke???? Haven't heard of that so I asked....sorry.

Brand new Spitzer car with maybe 10 rounds on it.Joe Laspota (SP) owner/driver right turned into guard rail at NY International when it let go.Accident investigation revealed a weld issue.

Now Dave I am not saying CM material isn't better than MS.Threw out this whole thing all I am saying is for the mere difference of the frame alone of 160 lbs that the MS is more forgiving used on the street.Neither of us could account for how many MS Pro street cars that are out there with no issues at all.

Oh the other car was Mark Shifferly at Cayuga broke in the lights at about 180mph.Damm near killed him.Again a strut mount broke.Car's name was "Time And Money".

Just for a ref Dave.I have told you how we used to flip race cars in a yr buying distressed projects where the guys ran out of money.We have been successful at that because we knew what to look for and knew how to finish them out for resale.That included CM cars(alot of them in fact)where we did the updates welding.Last count was over 20 of them over the yrs.Like you we have never heard of a issue with any of them.Of course now the market has gone so soft that routine is pretty much dried up.

So this brings me to this point.I'm sorry I lost my cool.

What strut mount, a steering mount strut or a wing strut??

160 lbs of weight reduction is not a mere issue, it's a huge issue!!! I'm down to looking at places to cut a pound at a time and not effect the structural integrity of the car... As for cars breaking, of course they break, part of the game. One pass on a top alcohol or top fuel car is harder on a car then years of street use... Nothing against the big shops that build the cars, but when you get so busy you have to hire folks to do the work, part of the intense quality control required is gone. As for the normalized moly and my welding, one of my cars was a '67 Comet, finished and campaigned in 97...It's still out there going rounds now!!!! Another one, T-bird, done in '00 or 01 (CRS) and all moly has 11,000 miles and 200+passes on it at the drags. Not too concerned about my welds. But, I do all my own notching, fitting, bevelling, and welding. As Jerry mentioned, small welds work better then big welds and if you want to do it in a hurry you're in the wrong business... Yes, it's very time and labor intensive but it's my car and time and labor don't matter----what else would I do if I wasn't in the garage???... Granted, I may be on the verge of obsessive about the weight and power issues with this car, but it's going to be built the way I want it. I've gone so far as to call Autometer regarding the weight of their models of gauges!

I do get a bit irate when someone mentions that I'm foolish about the weight and the moly, and none of it matters, cuz it does matter, if only to me!!!! I don't do cars in a hurry, my normal build time for a street machine is about 2 1/2 years, some of them a lot longer! Building cars is what I do, when the Plymouth and the roadster are done and gone I'll be done with doing customer cars and strictly doing my own. Just exactly what I've wanted to do since I started this madness so many years ago....

so, sorry I lost my cool too, get a bit testy when someone suggests what I'm doing is wrong and foolish.....

I'm been lucky to have surround myself with friends who are the welders at Troyer Engineering.Lots of what I have done in the past is from what they taught me.What remains to be seen is what I got now after this minor stroke I had.Effect my left hand<I'm left handed> and I got the floor pan in Ole Yellar to do..............

Wow!!! Just started doing some rough figuring for a tubing order for the frame and cage...Forgot how long and wide these old cars are!!!!! Best price so far appears to be out of a company in Indy, got to get my numbers together then call a few of these companies and see who wants to give the best quantity break. BTW, it'll be all normalized moly---if anybody is going to be needing some for an upcoming project let me know, maybe we could both save a few $$$$$ on a combined order????

Hey Dave,
I thought of you yesterday when I was at a little car show in Pacific Palisades. Supposedly someone built this car as a gasser back in the day. The current owner found it in a old warehouse and restored it back to it's "original" gasser glory and still races it.

Yeah, I know you're not going "gasser" with your '57 now but thought you might get a kick out of these pics anyway.:D:D

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Way kewl car Randy, thanks for putting up the pics!!!! F/Gas, mini-mouse motor in a heavy old '57!!!! Don't see how they didn't just flat pull the main webs right out of those blocks!!!!! Red line the tach, drop the clutch, and keep pullin' that handle til you get to the other end!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Way kewl car Randy, thanks for putting up the pics!!!! F/Gas, mini-mouse motor in a heavy old '57!!!! Don't see how they didn't just flat pull the main webs right out of those blocks!!!!! Red line the tach, drop the clutch, and keep pullin' that handle til you get to the other end!!!!

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Yup. I used go down to the big end of the track just to hear them go through lights at about 9 grand, or more. As I recall 5.86 and 6.17 gears were pretty common. And a big heavy flywheel!

Pat

Pat, going way back to the Thunder Valley days, do you remember Gene Bickelmeir's black '55 Chevy with that little bitty 265 incher, ran N/S with it???? National Record Holder for a few years....Anyway, that thing came through the traps at 8500!!!!!!!!

I remember Gene, seem to me he had a M/P Corvette too. Do you remember this one?

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Rick Napravnik from Omaha had/has it, he had a de-stroked 283 in it. Actually made the roll cage out of heavy pipe to make the class weight. It was a wheel standing son of a gun. He was one of the ones that revved so high. He had it as a show car for a while, now it is street legal and he took it to Drag Week. Unfortunately he had a brake lock on him and kissed the guard rail. His brother Bill was one of my racing buddies.

Pat

Yep, sure do remember the coupe!!! Gene did have a Vette, never seemed to get it working as good as the '55 if I remember right.... Think Gene was out of Nebraska, too? About the same time Napravnik ran, there was another Chevy Coupe, '36 or '37, that went through the traps on his side---think the guy that had it was from Sioux City or thereabouts. Anyway, friend of mine ended up with the car, still has door handle with lots of gouges on the driver's door!!!!!

The Super Bee that I drove is with it's second owner now, still alive and well in Minneapolis---brings it out to Brainard once a year for the MoPar get together. It's still all done up in "Ryan Chrysler Plymouth" lettering, original paint, and still very fast!!!! The GTX (1st car I drove) is allegedly in Dallas, would be fun to find it again some day!!!!!

Almost time to start on the '57 again. I did get the body off of the rotisserie and have it mounted and squared up on the chassis table! Got to get a bunch of bucks together and order all the moly tubing I need to build the chassis and cage, also need to go to the salvage yard and find an LS engine to use for mock up.

Cool! Glad to see you starting up on this again, Dave.

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

.....also need to go to the salvage yard and find an LS engine to use for mock up.

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On sale for $199 at Speedway, Dave LS1 Chevy Mock Up Block (G-Sale) - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop Might be worth that much for reduced wear & tear on the back??