i gave this some more thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by billy zz
maybe i am a retard but since i am retarded i dont know it?
maybe i am lucky to still be alive?
that would explain a few things around my house.....
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i gave this some more thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by billy zz
maybe i am a retard but since i am retarded i dont know it?
maybe i am lucky to still be alive?
that would explain a few things around my house.....
I wish I the wall space for another dry erase board. I had one back when I was racing. The things to do, chassis settings, etc. Worked good was about 4' x 6'. Now I don't have the wall space for a 4" x 6". Now I have written lists for the store and stopped somewhere else first, and thrown out a scrap of paper I didn't need only to find out it was the grocery list. Now whats really bad I don't remember throwing it out, I get home and assumed I forgot it and it would be on my bench or desk, I can't find it and after looking for about 15 min's it dawns on me what I did..........:oQuote:
Originally Posted by stovens
Billy you are not stoned, drunk, stupid, brain damaged, or retarted........... It was ME.... When you turn and aren't looking I take it............ to replace the one I lost and cannot find............:DQuote:
Originally Posted by billy zz
Today I had 3 goals in mind to complete.
1) Make the plate that goes under the spring and bolt the spring in place.
2) Drill and tap the wishones to increase the thread size from 1/2 to 5/8 inch so I can use my angled spring perches to realign the spring to the wishbones.
3) Build the frame mounts to put the rear of the wishbones to the frame and get those welded on.
I actually only got the first two done. I found out we had the proper 3/8 fine thread tap, but didn't have a 37/64 drill bit that it takes, so I had to drive to a local steel supply house/industrial tool place to pick up one. It was a nice day, so I took my 27. It was filthy from sitting in the shop uncovered, so I just hosed it down and am going to have to give it a proper cleaning tomorrow.
While I was at the steel supplier I picked up some 3/8 flat plate to build the wishbone mounts out of. Luckily they had two nice small pieces in their drop area, so I was able to carry them home in the roadster.
Drilling the wishbones was a cinch, tapping threads was NOT a cinch. The ends of the wishbones are forged steel evidently, and it took about an hour each side to tap them. Even with lots of antiseize as cutting oil we had to tap a little bit, then stop and clean out the shavings. But they came out fine and the new angled perches screwed right in.
We mounted the front spring to the wishbones, and that is where Dan suggested we should put the Olds engine, transmission, and body onto the frame to see where it settles down to. I told him I already did the calculations, but he felt the only way to really dial the correct caster in was to load it, then set the caster. So we made temporary wishbone mounts and clamped them to the frame and bolted the wishbones to them, just so the wishbones will stay in place when the weight gets put on the frame.
At that point the 96 degree temp in the shop had gotten to us, so we wrapped it up until tomorrow. One change that I may make is not to use the S10 rear I was going to use. Kurt had given me an 8 incher out of his 65 Ranchero a while back, and I gave it to my Son Don when I sold him the 46 Tudor. But the S10 was just a little narrower than I would like, and the Ranchero rear is 3 inches wider at 57 inches WMS to WMS. My rear wheels have a dual Ford/Chevy pattern, so it will be no problem to switch. I asked Don, and he said he is probably going to have a 9 incher made up to the exact width he needs, when the time comes, so he gave the 8 incher back to me.:D
That is where we ended up tonight. Here are some pictures of the spring mounting plate I made up, and the front end after we installed the spring, axle, and wishbones. This is not the ride height, I figure it will settle down about 3 inches when all the parts are bolted on.
Don
Looking good,Don. Pretty soon you'll need another shop,one for parking,and one for building!!!
Lookin' good so far, Don. Chassis fabrication is my favorite part of building a car.:3dSMILE: Progress happens in big visible leaps so you can step back and see your progress. For future reference - when you need spring plates, check out the trailer parts aisle at your local ACE Hardware. I needed 4 matching plates for my roadster. Rather than spend a couple of hours making them, I bought them at ACE (see pic). They have 3 or 4 different ones with different hole-spreads and hole sizes, so measure before you go.
I am interested to see how far your front end settles. With that 7-leaf spring I'm guessing only about 1 1/2 inches. Actually, if it rides a little high, that would be fairly typical of a mid-60s Altered...:cool:
I have 8-inch Ford rear ends in my coupe and roadster.:( If I had it to do over, I would either go with 9-inch Ford or Toyota pickup. Why? Gears and parts for an 8-incher cost more than gears and parts for a 9-inch.:eek: A posi unit for an 8-inch is out of sight... if you can find one! With that big high-torque Olds engine and tall slicks, you may need the beef of the 9-inch. On the other hand, Toyota pickups came with a bunch of different gear ratios, many of them are posi, they're pretty beefy for their size, they're plentiful in junkyards, and they have a Ford bolt pattern (5 on 4 1/2)!;)
Jim, that's good info about the Ace hardware trailer plates. I just am not sure if the bolt pattern would have been the same as the Total Performance perch I used, but worth checking out, that's for sure.
You are right about 8 inch stuff being a lot more expensive than 9 inch stuff. :eek: I don't know if it is because of availabilty or what, but it costs a lot more for everything. I'm not too worried about hurting it, as I rarely get on my cars hard, even my 27. I drive like an old man.............oh wait, I AM an old man. :o Don has an 8 incher in his T bucket, with only something like 2:79 gears, non posi, and he does push his harder than I do, and it has held up well.
I was going to buy him another center section with deeper gears for Xmas sometime, but that ratio seems to work great with his light weight, 3000 stall convertor, and good HP. When I am following him in my 27 and he leaves a light I have to push it a little just to keep up with him............for high gears it launches hard. If I remember correctly, I think the rear Kurt gave me has a similar ratio and that will be nice because I want this rpu to be the car I drive on the interstate to distance events. The 4:30's in my 27 make it very unpleasant at anything over 50 mph. :(
As you can see by this picture, Don has a somewhat heavy foot.:D
Don
Don - a place that most overlook is the lowly Pinto. Although they have 4 lug axles many, not all, have the standard everyday 8". I found a very nice 3.40 ratio punkin that I ended up using in my 'bucket
Oh really, I didn't know they had 8 inchers in them. Problem is, you never see a Pinto anymore, or a Vega either. I'd love to have one of either to make a little drag car, but they have all been gobbled up, or are so pricey these days.
Don
The ones in the rust belt ended up at the crusher quickly but there are still a few left in back woods salvage yards - if you can get in to do a wander. And that was only some of them that had the 8's. Guess I shouldn't have put my last two out for the trash collector last summerQuote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Today's project was to get the rear wishbone mounts made and welded on. Sometimes an easy task doesn't end up so easy, and Dan sure put in a lot of work today to get this job done.
What complicated it was that the Speedway wishbones were a couple of inches too long to tuck neatly in front of the kickup. I would have had to extend the frame out a couple of inches more to use them as is, and that would have looked disproportionate, I think. So what we did was shorten the wishbones by two inches.
We could have just hacked two inches off the ends and ordered new bungs to weld in, but that would take another week from Speedway, so we cut out the welds and salvaged the original bungs. Dan got those welded back in place and now the wishbones are 2 inches shorter. The mounts set inboard a little so the tie rod ends tuck up nice and tight to the frame. I should have no interferance with the steering arm this way.
We also removed all the leaves from the front spring except for the main leaf, to get an idea where the car should sit when the engine and body are on it. This week I will order my tie rod from Speedway, bolt some hubs onto the spindles, put the tires and wheels on, and then install the engine and body temporarily to see how everything is fitting.
Here are some pictures of what we got done today.
Don
Nice job on the shortening, can't even tell where the were cut!
What are you still doing up, Steve? Oh, that's right, you are in California., 3 hours behind us. :)
Thanks. When Dan proposed that we cut 2 inches off of them I was really looking for another solution. It just seems wrong to cut up a new pair of $ 300 wishbones. :eek: But he was right, as usual, it really made them fit much better. One thing about Dan, he isn't afraid to cut something up and start over. :LOL:
Don
Don If you don't mind, since I have never built a front end of this type why are the wishbones adjustable. It looks to me when the spring is anchord you have nothing to adjust anyway???? As I said If it dosen't take 2 pages let me in on whats going on
Thanks
With his skills he should have no fear. Dan does beautiful work.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Getting back to the 8-inch Ford rears, this was told to me by a friend who is a devoted Ford guy. I make no claim about the accuracy:rolleyes:: The 2.79 and 3.00 were probably the most common gear ratios (Both of mine are 2.79s). The 8-inch rears were used in Mustangs, Falcons, Fairlanes, Comets, Mavericks, some Mustang IIs, and a few Pintos; 2.79s in automatic trans cars and 3.00 in the sticks. Other ratios and posi units were "special" for performance cars. The Pintos and Mustang IIs that came with 8-inch rears were the V-6 cars. V-6s were more common in the mustang II than in Pintos, but Ford made some of both.:)
Jim, the tried and true 8" was also used in the Granada/Monarch, many smaller motored Torinos and many more misc Ford cars. Most 200cid 6 cyl manual Granadas used the 3.50/3.55 while the 250cid versions used the same 3.40 as the Pintos. That differential out numbered the 9" by a lot. It will hold up well on the street up to 400-450Hp as long as you don't have drag slick kinds of tires and continually do hard launches. Before you crawl under or buy a Granada rear end, a warning that some of them used that odd ball drop out the back, Chebbie type rear end. And, unfortunately there are too many of then that were 2.75/2.79/3.00 ratio:(
Thanks, Dave. Good info to have. I'd like to find a couple of those 3.50/ 3.55s for a reasonable price. Anything for an 8-inch around here is scarce and at least double the price of a 9-inch. Ford may have made millions more of them, but they apparently didn't survive. Everybody wanted the 9-inchers, so the 8's just got scrapped. The Spicer style "drop out the back" rears have been common since the 70s and that's about all you see in the junkyards around here...:(
The 9-inch has been around since 1957 and was used in full-size cars as well as trucks and vans. Do you know when they stopped making them? Just a few years ago I could buy them complete drum-to-drum for $50 - $100; now $250 is sonsidered a steal. Supply & demand I suppose. That's what makes the Toyota pickup rear so attractive...:rolleyes:
Charlie, the wishbones as they come stock from Ford on these earlier cars are not adjustible. Ford just kind of counted on their wishbones being straight enough to put the axle in the correct spot for proper alignment. But when you split the bones you have to use some sort of rod end on each one, either a spherical rod end or a tie rod end, and those screw into threaded bungs. You then have the ability to dial in the front end alignment by shortening one wishbone and lengthening the other side.
As for being able to move the axle, actually, it will pivot on the spring perch in the center. All that keeps the front end from swinging on that spot is the tightness of the perch bolts, so if you loosen that up you can move the front axle anywhere you want, within the limits of how much threads you have left on the rod end. What you want to do is initially square up the front axle to the rear axle so that both are going in the same direction, then use the adjustibilty of the rod ends to fine tune the alignment. It's funny how big a difference one turn on the rod ends will make in changing the wheelbase from one side compared to the other side.
Don
Thanks Don I kind of figured that but realy thought the spring would stay streight on its own??Good thing I don't build these things
Haha, no, the reason I play with them is that they are so simple. The newer stuff boggles my mind...........computers and fuel injection are like Neurosurgery to me. :o A few weeks ago my daily driver developed a whine from the serpentine belt area. Couldn't tell exactly what was doing it. I first replaced the tensioner and belt. Still whined. Then I replaced the power steering pump, still whined. Finally replaced the alternator, that fixed it. :o I hate newer cars.
When you loosen up that center perch it will allow the spring to move a little in it's mount. It doesn't take a lot of movement there to affect a whole lot of adjustment back on the wishbones.
As we were cutting up the Speedway bones yesterday we both were impressed with the quality of them and how much they look like genuine old Ford wishbones. It also saved me a lot of cutting and grinding on stock Ford items as the hard work is already done. I'm glad I bought them.
Don
Jim
They are like gold around here. I paid 350 for my Ford 9" off a econline van(same width as the 48 ford, and direct mount match with the leaf springs, but that included switched out 3.0 gears and new brakes and decent drums. I thought it was really expensive but it took a month just to find a wrecker with the setup I needed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Robinson
Don I usually get home around midnight from work, so I see your late postings from what must be 3a.m., so I take it late night nights at the shop are probably cooler in florida. When you guys work that late what time do you get up at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Steve, since I have gotten older and retired my sleep patterns have changed a lot. I seem to sleep in 3 hour shifts now and it drives me nuts. Last night I got to bed around 3 and was back up at 6. I plan on going back to work somewhere in the late fall, so hopefully I will start sleeping regular hours like before.
You are also right about it being cooler at night here, so I sometimes go to the shop and work late, but now the mosquitos are so bad they eat me alive.................can't win.:( Fall can't come too early for me.
Don
Some would say that's a short trip.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
(NOT me of course, just some...:D)
No, Bob, you would NEVER say that ! :rolleyes::LOL: You've actually been pretty mello lately, could this be a new kinder, gentler Uncle Bob ?? :D
Today was rainy all day, which kept the temps down, so tonight I was able to work at the shop for a few hours with the garage door closed. It was only 80 degrees in there, and it was nice to be able to keep the mosquitos out.
I wanted to see how much my front spring would drop with some weight on it, so I temporarily put the Olds engine on some angle iron supports in the frame. It dropped a good inch and a half, and I still have the transmission, body, and all the engine accessories to go on it. I figure it will drop a good 3 inches or more when that is all on it.
Tomorrow I am going to bolt the Bendstens transmission adapter to the block and put the TH350 behind the engine to start figuring out where crossmembers and other stuff will go. I also have to bolt on my spindles and steering arms so I can order my tie rod. Might try putting the body back on also to see what clearance issues I need to solve.
Don
Tonight I got a chance to bolt the transmission adapter onto the motor and temporarily bolt on the TH350 transmission. I've never seen the two bolted together so that was pretty neat. The adapter fits perfectly, everything lines up like it should.
Then I installed the body back on the frame and moved the engine back until I had good clearance between the distributor and firewall. I moved it un and down until I got the intake to be perfectly flat, and positioned so that I have good oil pan clearance.
It still was an inch higher in the front than I wanted so I removed the very top leaf from the spring and it settled down 1/2 inch more. Once I put the rest of the stuff on the engine and body it should drop down more, maybe even to the point where I have to reinstall that one leaf.
One thing that I might change is running the radiator in the bed. After I got stuff mocked up I realized I would have room for a pretty good sized one in the regular position, and it would eliminate a lot of work and cooling lines. Plus, it would give me the entire bed for a fuel tank and battery, plus some actual storage for tools, etc. I'm not 100% sure yet, just thinking. :)
Here are some pictures from tonight.
Don
Looking good Don, one thing is that 350 going to be ok behind the Olds ??? I was told to run a 400 although i stuck with the dual hydro
I think it will be fine, Steve. It is a Jacksons Racing transmission . The convertor is a 2500, and my 394 is just a tad over stock, plus I really don't abuse my cars much.
Don
I know guys with 350's behind bbc with no problems, mock up looks good. getting incentive??
The white block looks great(just a pain to keep clean!) With the mirror finish on the fire wall it will be a cool effect. I like the tri-carb set up you are using for this one too. Starting to look Ole School! :)
Gotta love the tri-power Olds.
Bats eat mosquitoes..................LOL-I am just sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Yeah Don maybe one of those big suckers you posted could help out!:D:eek:
I'm pretty sure they don't eat kitties!:eek:
Hehe, yeah, one of those big suckers could clean up our entire mosquito problem in a few nights. :LOL: Bet they taste just like chicken too.:eek:
Steve, I have been thinking along the lines of a mirror finish ss firewall too. Not sure how to cut it though, that stuff must be tough. Any insight, Steve in UK? You and Ken are the SS go to guys. :)
BTW, see the headers on the car? I bought those on Ebay probably 10 years ago because I knew some day I would rebuild the Olds engine I have (I've been dragging this motor around for at least 25 years). They were homebuilt by someone who did them old school, with Ford torque tubes as the megaphones. They are a little on the crude side, but cool in so many ways that I am going to use them. I figure some VHT paint and I will be good to go. Whoever built them took the time to machine aluminum caps for the ends with ribs in them, but I probably will be just running baffles and no exhaust, however the jury is still out on that one.
Luckily, Oldsmobile used two different bolt patterns on the exhaust flanges on the 394's and my engine just happened to have the same on as the headers. I also had a 59 or 60 394 and the bolt pattern was different on that engine.
Don
Don I had the mirror finish stainless on the firewall of my 38...If I remember right I got it from an aircraft supplier. It's thin and easy to cut. I trimed the outer edges with a black plastic that slipped over the edge about 3/8". Don't remember where I got that but think JCWhitney.com
I think it is used to go around motor cycle windshields. hope this helps
An electric shear will cut light guage stainless but will curl the edge slightly.
The trim Charlie mentioned would hide that.
If you wanted to keep the sheet flat w/o trim you could plasma cut but it would require finish grinding the edge and then buffing out any discoloration. If the sheet is thin it may warp very slightly form the heat if the cutting is done too slowly.
I like to cut shapes on our corner notcher as it leaves the sheet nice and flat w/o edge curling.
Thanks for the tips on the ss firewall. I wonder how a fine bladed jigsaw would work, if you cut from the backside ?
I got a little more done tonight. Don was at the shop and helped me drag the 8 inch rear out of his storage building. We bolted the slicks on and slid it under the car for a trial fit. Much better !! The S10 was too narrow but the 8 incher is just right, espeically with the reversed offset wheels I have the slicks mounted on. Now it looks proportional. Thanks for the gift of the 8 inch rear, Kurt.:D
I also got my front spindles and steering arms installed and as I thought, the steering arms allow the tie rod to pass right under the wishbones with plenty of clearance. We also measured the length of the tie rod I need and luckily it is a standard 48 inch one that Speedway carries in stock. Tomorrow I will place an order for that, plus the 1/4 inch spacers I need to shim the wishbones to the axle, and a few other parts.
I also got the rear height dialed in where it will sit. With this progress I am looking pretty good regarding my goal to have a roller by the end of August. :)
Here are a few pictures from tonight.
Don
Those slicks look mighty fine, I even like the blue stuff on the white walls! That 8 incher seems a perfect fit too.
Easiest way to cut it is to use a 1mm thin cutting wheel in an angle grinder Don, get it pretty close and then finish with a flap wheel, by far the easiest way i've found.
I presume you use the thin cutting wheels and flapwheels over there ???
Heres what i mean
http://www.onspecialoffer.co.uk/phot...3-p%5B1%5D.jpg
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/finishi...-flap-disc.jpg
stain less steel can be very hard on saw teeth any time i have used it i get ready to kill my band saw blade teeth it will wipe a set out then i will have a dead spot .so i use thin cut of wheels like Sait s work the best for me