Wow! Just went thru this thread from the start. Your metal working skills are a thing of beauty. Thanks for taking the time to photograph your process and show your home made jigs and tools. Definately will be watching this to the end. Steve.
Printable View
Wow! Just went thru this thread from the start. Your metal working skills are a thing of beauty. Thanks for taking the time to photograph your process and show your home made jigs and tools. Definately will be watching this to the end. Steve.
Thanks!
With the epoxy well cured, holes were drilled for plug welds....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture339-1.jpg
Then used the modified plug weld bit for cleaning out the adjacent panel...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture340-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture342-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture343-1.jpg
Cleaned spots for the plug welds...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture344-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture345-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture346-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture348-1.jpg
I had some questions about how well the epoxy held up to heat from welding. The epoxy next to the weld above, where it turned brown from the heat, was allowed to cool off, then attempted to scrape the paint with my thumbnail. I thought it may scrape some off, but it held tight, not so much as a scratch.
Then I got on a roll and forgot pictures, but here's the patch all welded in....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture349-1.jpg
Next, drilled the holes in the lower window opening....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture350-1.jpg
.....and got the holes placed for the nut plate and it's plug welds...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture351-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture352-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture353-1.jpg
Hopefully tomorrow we can get some profile blocks cut out to fold over the ends of the outer piece...
Laying out the ends for trimming.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture354-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture355-1.jpg
Here's the piece we'll use to cut out the profile blocks, 3/4 thick steel
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture357-1.jpg
As I am fresh out of good band saw blades, these were used....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture358-1.jpg
The lower piece was tapered at the bottom as the bottom of the lift gate tapers in below the bead detail..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture360-1.jpg
.....like so.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture361-1.jpg
Not perfect, but should work just the same...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture363-1.jpg
Clamped in the vise.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture365-1.jpg
Then some heat is applied, and hammered the high spots..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture366-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture367-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture368-1.jpg
Fitted.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture369-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture370-1.jpg
and the other end......
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture373-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture374-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture375-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture376-1.jpg
Hope to test fit everything tomorrow before all the parts get media blasted..
Nice work. Some times making the jigs (dies) is more work than using them. Again nice work
Very true. About twice as much time in making the dies as using them.
Things don't always work the way you planned. Before the ends were folded, the bottom piece could never be test fit into the opening. Now with the ends folded, it was slipped over the bottom of the lift gate and it bolted into the opening. With the upper bead detail aligned, the lower was considerably off kilter. Slightly off on the contour, I guess.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture379-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture380-1.jpg
The patch piece was marked off on both ends to bring the lower bead detail up into the car for better alignment...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture381-1.jpg
Here's the driver's side after cutting and welding, shows a much better alignment. Good weld penetration on the inside, the seam at the end will be finished after folding onto the lift gate..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture383-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture384-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture385-1.jpg
We may be able to save this yet..
Wow, I hope guys with your talent don't look at my sheet metal work. :LOL: What kind of torch head is that? That is really cool how you were able to get those wrinkles out of the material after folding it up there.
The torch is a Henrob, but I believe it goes by the name of Cobra torch now. It has about 6 different tips for the torch head, so you can really fine tune the flame size to the job.
Cobra is correct on the torch. They're sold almost exclusively at trade shows now, with strong focus on big name auto gatherings. Bought mine at the last Good Guys in KC a couple of years ago, and need to spend a few weeks burning gas and learning how to use it. Link - Cobra Torches | Oxy / Acetylene Welding and Cutting SystemQuote:
Originally Posted by MP&C
That cobra deluxe kit is .. wow. Does it require new regulators, or can I use my old ones? I'll bet It's a bit pricey.
I bought regulators from the Cobra guy. As I recall he said that the "normal" regulators weren't accurate at the lower settings the torch requires. They're both 0-30psi regulated.Quote:
Originally Posted by firebird77clone
Pretty neat setup, never played with a torch before, but what you do with it is very impressive. I'm definately understanding the term Shadetree for my skills will metal! :)
just had a good look at this one. it aint gona get much bettern this.
Sorry for my short hiatus from the shop, after 226K miles my trusty 16 year old truck has been giving me fits with transmission issues. After spending about 3 weeks on and off looking for good used trucks, the year end deals and rebates made a brand new one only slightly higher in price than a three year old model. So.....
Out with the old...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture366.jpg
In with the new....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture401.jpg
And with the truck shopping headaches behind us, we can get back in the shop ...
Worked on the other end of the lower patch today, to fix the mis-alignment of the beltline trim...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture380-1.jpg
Made a relief cut....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture403-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture404-1.jpg
Rear view shows full weld penetration....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture406-1.jpg
Welds were planished, then ground to just above panel surface, and next weld overlapped, and repeat. The overlapping helps to eliminate any missed welds/pin holes.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture408-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture409-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture410-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture411-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture412-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture413-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture414-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture415-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture416-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture417-1.jpg
All done and cleaned up....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture418-1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture419-1.jpg
......for a much better fit..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture420-1.jpg
Then media blasted the inside in preparation for some epoxy primer...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture425.jpg
.....and did some adjustment of the tailgate fitment.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture422.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture423.jpg
Sometimes you just need to back up and punt.
Even though I have been working on this car far too long, with travel for the day job and two other resto's having been quite an interruption..... you get to where you finally see light at the end of the tunnel, and just come to grips with something that needs to come back out....
When I originally did this roof repair, I did not have the Lennox nibbler or English wheel or many of the tools I now have, and the patch panel you see below.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...n/HPIM5655.jpg
....was fabricated using incremental bends in an apron brake. Given the creases you see due to the fabrication method, I likely made this shorter than I should have in an attempt to limit the creases, and the result was the horizontal weld was not up high enough to be readily accessible for planishing. After making these patch panels for a second roof repair......
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture129.jpg
.....it was more apparent that the first attempt was not the best, and if I wasn't happy with it before, this new panel really made the old one grab my attention...each time I've walked by.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture437.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture438.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture439.jpg
Well a person with spare patches lying around can only take so much, so tonight I checked the fit of one of the spare patch panels.... Looking at the front, the panel needed just a bit more crown....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture441.jpg
And the rear needed just a bit less....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture446.jpg
So with the Go Kart slick mounted up and ready to go, a 6" then 3.75" radius lower anvil added the crown needed for the front and a 24" radius flattened out the rear for a much better fit.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture443.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture444.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture447.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture448.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture450.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture451.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture452.jpg
These panels are about 4" high and put the weld up above the roof boxing structure, so planishing will be more accessible to give us a better job. I'll get the patch all primed on the inside and let it cure. Then cut out the old patch and get this new one welded in.. More to come..
Was in the middle of media blasting the innards of the lift gate and noticed the threads for these nut plates didn't look too "full" A test with a 10-24 screw showed that some of the holes were so bad that they had a "slip" fit.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture453.jpg
These hold the rubber bumpers on the bottom inside edge of the lift gate. The spot welds are drilled to release the nut plate..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture454.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture455.jpg
The new ones are cut out of some 10ga steel, holes drilled and tapped.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture456.jpg
yeah, these threads look much better....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture457.jpg
Where I normally use a couple screws to hold nut plates in place for welding, with the close proximity of the plug weld hole the screw heads would obscure some of the hole, and we would undoubtedly be welding in the screw heads for difficult removal. For this case, we'll use some brass tubing as a spacer. Since the tubing I picked up passes though the screw holes, a sacrificial lock washer is used for it's minimal diameter.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture459.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture460.jpg
A dab of anti sieze is placed on the screw threads to insure they don't get welded in place from arcing across the threads.. Plug welded, and screws removed.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture461.jpg
Lock washers removed and plug welds ground flush....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture463.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture468.jpg
And now we can finish up the media blasting....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture469.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture470.jpg
Wow, Robert!! As I always say, "One thing always leads to a THOUSAND more!!!" but you handle each little "extra" with the mastery of artist! Watching your work is so educational and inspiring but it creates a lot more work for me because I have to raise the bar on my own projects. A little more bondo is no longer acceptable!! :LOL::LOL::LOL: Ok, my skill set is light-years behind yours so maybe I should just say I'll keep working at it till I use way less bondo than I did before! :D:D
Been following this project as many other have and I have to say that you are a craftsman. I know one or two other guys who can fabricate like you do and I do admire the work you do.
Thanks guys!
Had a couple hours to spend in the shop this evening, so I decided to mark out the roof for re-repairing.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture471.jpg
Then another line was dropped down about 1/4" to be used for the "rough cut". A cutoff wheel was used and then trimmed with the snips. The lower section was trimmed about 1/2" above the drip rail..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture472.jpg
To start, a section was marked off just wider than my sheet metal pliers. Then the spot welds, which were visible from the top, were drilled. A cutoff wheel was used to grind through the end(s) of the section being removed. Then the sheet metal pliers used to rock the panel back and forth to break the spot welds loose.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture473.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture475.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture477.jpg
Got about half of it removed, we'll save the rest for later so I can get some primer on the inside of some of the lift gate parts and the roof skin patch.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture478.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture479.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture480.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture481.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture482.jpg
Your work is outstanding, I like the details in your posts. Keep up the great work.
Thanks!
Continuing with the dissecting of the roof.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture483.jpg
When I got into the section with the old roof, it was difficult to see the spot welds (for drilling) down inside the drip rail. The underside was more accommodating, so the face of the drip rail was marked with the sharpie to use as a reference while drilling...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture484.jpg
The lower corners of the opening were trimmed to size so that the roof patch could be clamped down into the drip rail. This will help to get more accurate markings on the roof skin for trimming the rest of the opening.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture489.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture488.jpg
C-Clamp vise grips added to secure the overlapped panels for marking, then a straightedge used to read the crown of the roof to insure there were no dips or puckers along the top of the joint....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture490.jpg
My favorite scribe, a local auction purchase...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture491.jpg
Scribing the roof panel
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture492.jpg
Not much to spare! Trimmed the opening with some offset snips...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture493.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture494.jpg
Corners touched up with a 1-1/2" drum sander
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture495.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture498.jpg
Clamped in place to hold the shape while we wait for the .023 ER70S-7 to come in. Note the butt weld clamps will be removed at welding for a tight fit-up.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture496.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture497.jpg
Like the 1" ? bar for holding form on roof. I have used 1x1x3/16 L iron. Really nice work. I hope this is your car Labor is going to be through the roof.
No pun intended
Very nice work sir! I highly doubt I would have been able to make that patch panel in the time you repair your rear hatch. :LOL: I need to get some of those butt weld clamps too.
I just use the butt clamps to assist in fit up, they get moved out of the way during welding for a tight butt joint.
Well today I had a phone call from 3 Mules to tell me the .023 welding wire was in. I had ordered .023 ER70S-7, but what actually showed up was EZ Grind. I guess I was destined to try this stuff out...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture613.jpg
After about 45 minutes of changing wire, rollers, and trying different settings on the machine, we found dialing it in for 3/16 thick steel and using 1/2 second weld "application" showed about the best results.. Seems odd as the metal was 19 ga, or about .038 thick..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture614.jpg
front:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture615.jpg
rear:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture616.jpg
Comparative size of the weld proud.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture617.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture618.jpg
The special made tongs had returned from Houston, so we did the spot welds first to insure the panel was pulled down into the drip rail tightly..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture622.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture619.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture621.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture623.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture625.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture626.jpg
Then the panels were aligned and tacked, starting at the rear and working toward the front...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture627.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture628.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture629.jpg
Full penetration welds....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture630.jpg
The patch should be well high enough for planishing this time...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture631.jpg
Here's where we left off.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture632.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture633.jpg
Wow! what a piece of work.. the alignment over the length is enviable.. great job there!
I've seen that wire but have been hesitant to try it as it isn't my normal type of job, how'd you like it so far?
The ER70S-7 I used was .035, and the EZ grind was .023. I find that .023 wire is more prone to tensioner and birdcage issues, which is another factor that dictated the heat setting. In planishing, the EZ grind appeared to be slightly harder than my experience with planishing the -7 on the fender shave. The EZ Grind also appears to have more slag issue than the -7. If I had my choice, it would be the -7, but the EZ Grind is still going to likely be better than using the -6 and it's harder welds.
Thanks for that info.. I'll be curious of your opinion after the work is completed. (I'm assuming the pictures are "real time", of course..) 8-)
Yes, those pics are as of last night.
Nice work, and thanks for the excellent explanations as you go and the great photos!
Awesome work. That spot welder is awesome. Do you do a few spot welds, walk away, let it cool, then come back and repete while doing the spot welds? I always did that and was told there was no need. Back when I was in college I worked in a body shop, and the owner had a pretty sweet spot welder. Some punks stole it about 10yrs ago though......
This one is a Miller 220v with the timer module. Needless to say when using it on the roof skin, you let it rest on top of your shoulder to be able to stand the weight that long. We aligned the ends and tacked them, then checked the contour just above the drip rail with a body sweep and would adjust the panel's lower flange in or out accordingly. We made a few tacks to hold those locations, splitting it in about quarters, then went back and filled in between. About the only "cool down" was when we set the welder down to check fitment with the body sweep.
Thanks for the info. I was just curious if we did it correctly. We pretty much did it the same way.
So we're either both right or both wrong.. :LOL:
I'm sure you're right and we were just lucky. Haha
Thanks so much for taking the time to post this. I struggle with the smallest of rust repairs, and then see such a major repair done so well that it leaves me shaking my head. Posts like these encourages me to do more than I think I'm capable of. Thanks again.
I'm just glad I'm so slow. Some of what you're seeing I wasn't capable of two years ago.... :LOL:
Well after a week in FL, time to get back in the shop.. I wasn't totally pleased with the .023 EZ grind, but in all fairness I think some of the issue is my welder. It never has been too keen on .023 wire, so looks like my BIL is going to get a new roll of wire for his Hobart.
Put the .035 ER70S-7 back in, dialed in the settings for 3/16 thick steel, and ran some test welds...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture648.jpg
Front side....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture645.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture646.jpg
Rear side....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture647.jpg
Comparing the EZ grind to the -7 shows less splatter...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture649.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture650.jpg
The roof cross member made part of the weld seam inaccessible, so it was removed on one end for planishing access...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture652.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture653.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture655.jpg
Welds ground down to just above panel surface...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture656.jpg
Our planishing implements this evening.... Low crown hammer and used the Pexto blocking hammer as a dolly...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture659.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture660.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture661.jpg
This shows the weld dots planished....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture657.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture658.jpg
Full penetration welds.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture662.jpg
Weld, planish, grind, repeat.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture668.jpg
We're about halfway done, hope to finish it up tomorrow...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture669.jpg
Fantastic detail and explanation, thank you!
So the "EZ" wire......... wasn't.. thanks for the heads up, it looks like the weld wasn't bad, just messy and you ended up with a bit larger puddle. Is that a fair statement?
As always the pictures make the repair look great. And thanks for sharing the info as always!
Robert,
One thing I enjoy about your posts is that you take time to mention the details of setup, like here showing that when you changed back to the -7 wire you took time to run a test panel to "dial in" the welder. My "slam bam" approach is to install the spool, get it into the gun, start welding and adjust as I go which means the first few spots are not near as good, and often I'm finishing by the time I've got the welder "dialed in".:o You're posts are great teaching posts, and I thank you because I am one who enjoys the ever continuing learning process and improving techniques. The day that I think I know everything is the day I'd better find the dunce hat! Thanks for the lesson on perfection in process.
Roger, it's a continual learning curve for all of us.. Believe me! :LOL: On the welder setup, I normally have it pretty well dialed in from using the same stuff all the time, but I wanted to try the -7 again on a higher heat setting to try the difference. Never hurts to practice on some scraps to save any "aw fudges" on the good stuff..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
It's hard to place all the blame on the wire alone, as my welder has too large a liner for the .023 wire, where it tends to accordion, if you will. If you were to pull the wire at the end and trim it, then the machine has to fill the voids side to side before effectively pushing the wire out the end again. This is something I've known with my welder but was trying to minimize any heat on the roof panel. Comparatively, I'd say they are similar in flatness of weld, softness of weld, and the only difference being the slight extra splatter with the EZ. If someone has a smaller welder with the smaller liner, they would likely have better results than with the 25+ year old beast that I'm using. With either, I'd say you'll have better results than with the harder welds of the -6 wire. I never gave it much thought until someone asked the question of shrinking effects on the allmetalshaping site, but comparing both of the -7 and EZ to the -6 wire, I think the -7 and EZ may have slightly less shrinking effects as well. This may attribute to the harder weld of the -6 is "compressing" more than the other two.. Just a guess, I'm certainly no metallurgist to speak fluently on the matter...
Great info, thanks again!