Nice! Always good when you can leave something out and fix a problem!
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Nice! Always good when you can leave something out and fix a problem!
On my coupe with the same valve, I have the adjustment all the way backed off. I don't need it at all. Glad to hear you made a big difference and scored a win! :D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5
Need some wiring help here. I've been messing around making a latching relay so if my door is opened a horn will turn on, but I want it to stay on till I hit the kill switch. I can make a latching one easy if I use a power wire to turn it on but my dome light switch runs on a ground and for the life of me I can't get it to latch. Anybody done this sort of setup before ?
Use to standard automotive relays as drawn
Thanks a bunch, I was messing around with two relays trying to get something like that figured out and nothing quite worked. I was Google searching quite a while too and could find nothing. I really appreciate the help, did you draw that up yourself?
Glad I could help!
It doesn't take me long to draw em. I have lots of symbols in store and cut / paste em together, the rest is just connecting lines.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order for this to work the switch has to be on at all times since it supplies 12v to the horn. Wouldn't it be simpler to eliminate the second relay and use the first to interrupt the ground leaving the horn supplied with 12v at all times as it was designed?
Ken, you are correct it can be done with a single relay switching the ground. I may have misread his post thinking he wanted to switch positive via a negative input, thus the second relay.
Thank you
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 sedan
I printed your diagram out a couple of times trying to figure out how it worked and it just dawned on me that only one relay was needed, at least the way I understood it. Glad to help and FWIW, the only "latching" relays I've seen were on DC-10s and they were big and used in the generator power system.
I wish there were more questions of this nature as it helps me keep my brain active:D:LOL::LOL::LOL:
The only caveat with single negative latch relay is the horn needs to be switched through the vehicle's horn relay, otherwise the horn's initial current load will be through the door jam switch until the relay latches. The door jam switch may not tolerate the initial current demand of the horn's coil.
I'll revise my original drawing to remove the horn's ground source from the door jam switch and place directly to ground when I get back to my office.
I will be using a separate horn than the factory horn. It will be mounted on the bottom of the floorboard right next to the relays I use. I was hoping to hook it up tonight but my BIL grabbed Rita today to look at what's going on with the transmission. We were going to take it to Cruz to the woods by Des Moines Iowa, I was going to be danged if I let that thing sit at a motel parking lot overnight in Des Moines without an alarm, the club, a kill switch, and my concealed carrying permit LOL
I backtracked and started reading some of the stuff Ken was asking too. The circuit needs to be turned on by The ground wire via the dome light, and I need to cut off the circuit with my hidden toggle switch. It doesn't matter to me whether the toggle switch cuts off positive or negative power, it just needs to turn it off. I did have it where it would latch , but like Ken mentioned, the relay was energized all the time which would be bad. One thing that I see that I will have to do differently is get a horn with a separate ground wire. The one I am using uses the frame of the horn to ground it.
revised drawing;
Here are some options to the same circuit;
Use my revised drawing for your horn, it switches the positive to the horn. The latch stays on until the power switch is interrupted. The interrupt switch will need to be outside the car or put on a delay, otherwise the opened door will activate it. You can put a delay module on the first relay, this would give you time to set and de-activate without setting the horn off.Quote:
Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5
https://www.amazon.com/Delay-Relay-M...592299&sr=1-17
Assuming door is closed and relays are at rest, when door is opened:
#1 Will not work as there is no power to the horn but would work if there was a constant power to pin 85 of the 2nd relay
#2 Will not work as there is no power to the horn unless the relays are energized and they can't be energized since there is no ground for the relay coils.
#3 Will not work since there is no ground for the relay coils
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTFDAY
Sorry, got to go to band practice, I'll have to resume this tomorrow.
Look closely at the diagrams, the ground is set by relay #1 when the door jam switch engages which latches relay #1 to ground through 30 $ 87, this in turn activates and hold relay #2, #2 supplies the 12VDC+ to the horn through 30 & 87, the horn grounds directly. Switch interrupts the latch, starting the circuit over.
Here it is with a delayed entry/exit;
I have an external interrupt switch installed. I did not know they made a delay switch, I really got to catch up on this whole electronics thing. At first I thought the delay switch would be a great idea, but then I realized that if I open my doors after it sat a while, I would set the alarm off myself. The delay switch would work good for setting it but not for getting back in. When I get Rita back from the shop I'm going to be anxious to wire it up.
Look closer, the module gets it's initial ground through the door jam switch starting the delay. When you leave the door jam switch starts the delay so you have time to leave, close the the door before the delay is up and it starts all over because the relay hasn't latched yet. Open the the door to get in, the module grounds and starts the countdown again, turn the activation switch off and nothing happens, don't turn the switch off and the alarm activates once countdown is done. The trick to this circuit is to set the delay for it with as little time as possible so the crook doesn't have enough time to close the door, yet you have enough time to de-activate.Quote:
Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5
Want to go a little further, add a wireless remote switch, no delay needed.
https://www.amazon.com/dstfuy-Wirele...NsaWNrPXRydWU=
Or, use your phone;
https://www.amazon.com/DSD-TECH-Blue...1607327&sr=8-3
Without a ground on the end of the coil the relay will never energize unless 87 and 87a are reversed and with the toggle switch closed how do you get power to the positive side of the coil?Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 sedan
I see what you're seeing, I used generic pictures for the switch and jam switch, it shows the jam switch as closed should be open, the activation switch is closed. Circuit is at standby waiting to activate by door jam switch contact.
Make better sense. Sorry, I sometimes assume everyone sees what's in my head.
I would use an alarm siren instead of a car horn, the battery will last longer.
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Aut...-1106151859392
I was wondering the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 sedan
This will work as intended if the jam switch is connected to pin 85 of the first relay and pin 87 of the first relay is connected to pin 85 of the second relay. The jam switch as you have drawn shows it grounded through it's mount which is correct unless you're working on a plastic car such as my 76 Corvette. But being grounded in that manner has no effect on the switch as it's contacts are insulated from the body of the switch. Every jam switch I've ever dealt with has two contacts for connecting wires and they are insulated from each other until the switch is made. One wire is usually grounded and the other wire goes to whatever is being controlled, ordinarily a dome light or under dash light(s).
The only other type of jam switch I've encountered are roller switches used on aircraft to let the pilot know when a door is closed. The ones I am familiar with are three pin switches configured like 30, 87 and 87a in a SPDT relay and I found many to be wired wrong on DC-9 and DC-10 aircraft.
Ken, certainly no disrespect intended, but I believe we have derailed. The intent of my drawing was not to make a universal alarm system, and of course a separate ground wire would be needed for plastic. Rather, my drawing(s) represent a simple solution to the OP’s question for a latching relay set up that would control a 12 volt horn mounted under his seat that would activate when the doors are opened without being overly complicated. I believe I accomplished that.
I’m sorry for any miss givens, miss understanding, or confusion, anyone is welcome to use or lose the design at their choice. I bid a fair goodbye......
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 sedan
No disrespect intended or implied. I freehand most of my diagrams, not that computer savvy, and usually end up constructing them on a breadboard to iron out my mistakes.
I checked out delay units on EBay and found this dandy little item https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-Mult...sAAOSwNYZerVWg
No disrespect intended to anyone.
Most of the circuits I use and embellish upon are known, proven and working industry standard circuits. Occasional I make errors and I’ll admit I did not make it clear on the prior drawings that the activation and door jam switches were copy and paste generic internet pictures, not necessarily shown in their correct positions. I also assumed everyone would see the drawing was in its standby state with the activation switch on, ready to be triggered by the door jam switch when it engaged and that I was using a standard automotive relay footprint.
Im sorry I mislead anyone to think otherwise.
The drawings were done quickly on the fly with no written instructions to explain function. My intention was and has always been to help, not confuse. I believe I straightened all misgivings out in the later drawings. While I try to keep on topic and uncomplicated, unfortunately I don’t always succeed. It is never my intention to mislead, misguide, misdirect, argue, fight or complicate issues, and again my apologies, I don’t always succeed.
Though I have acquired some knowledge, I’m not to be considered an expert by any means on any topic. However, I truly enjoy sharing knowledge and helping. Unfortunately sometimes I assume everyone else can see what’s swimming inside my head and unintentionally leave info out. It’s not intentional, certainly not meant to misguide. Lately, I seem to be a catalyst of misleading, misguiding, misdirecting, arguing, fighting and/or complicating issues.
Sorry, I’ll refrain....
Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 sedan
Nonsense, a good healthy discussion is good for the soul.
NEVER! We all know that you were just offering a helping hand and NOBODY said you were the expert.. ( well, maybe me!?!? 8-) ) Everyone here enjoys your posts and knows that you are one of, if not THE, most helpful guys on this site. You've got nothing to apologize for. Now that I've typed out this wordy response... what I wanted to say originally was "BULLSHIT... Stop That!" :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 sedan
I couldn't agree more! I've always appreciated your posts and find them to be some of the most helpful, well thought out information anyone provides. I found your drawings to be just what the doctor ordered, and I never questioned the details of the "jam switch" - it's obvious that it's a NO switch that closes when actuated. That's just the way things work!Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Keep up the "helps"! They are much appreciated and of great value!
Got the alarm wired in, I went with the remote on/off key fob like you suggested. I was wondering if the remote relay was going to draw the battery down overnight, so I first tuned it on and left it set for 24 hours. It cranked over like crazy yet so that was not an issue. Here's a video of it in action, its pretty quiet so turn your volume up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY3gi0AA7GA
That will certainly get some attention! Good job!!!
The relays are off until the door opens, the only power draw at rest is the remote receiver and it's small.Quote:
Originally Posted by 53 Chevy5
Yes, The remote relay makes quite a click when it turns on so I was a bit curious about it's draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 sedan
I got some suspension issues. I just passed 15k on Rita and I have never been overly impressed with how it drives, it follows road lines and it's a bit twitchy, not terrible but not nice either. I've had it aligned by two different people and it comes back the same. I bought a bubble caster/camber tool and thought I would check it out myself. I found out that I cant get near enough caster on the wheels, I can get 0 caster at best. My method how I understand it is for the left wheel, turn 20deg to the left off center, 0 the gauge center the bubble, turn 20deg to the right past center, center the bubble and read gauge. If I try to get 4-5 deg of caster I'm out of adjustment in the rear and my ability to adjust the camber is long gone. After a lot of looking, it seems like my top A arm/spring perch is welded on too far forward. Aside from the steering, Rita's reliability is proving itself to go on some pretty long trips and I'd sure like to get the steering the way it should be. Before I cut my brackets off and re weld them this winter, do you have any other idea's?
Check into adjustable upper control arms. They are available for MII type suspension. You would be able to move the upper ball joint location to the rear without actually moving CA cross shaft.
Something like this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...g-ii/year/1974
Or this, if it will clear the upper spring pocket:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...g-ii/year/1974
This would be easier than cutting the upper mounts off. The fabrication approach I would take is to build new upper CA's with offset balljoint locations. You could estimate what hard offset you need and then use the original Ford adjustment to get it dead on.
One downside to moving the upper mount or balljoint is that it will move the wheel location to the rear in the opening. Not much way around it unless you move the lower ball joint forward too. Basically split the difference between upper and lower. Of course that may run into rack clearance issues. Isn't hot rodding relaxing and fun! :LOL::rolleyes:
In the picture of the front end parts? Is this the left side or right side?
My digital gauge ( like your bubble ) only requires a 15 degree change. I've never tried readings at 20 degrees. I wonder???
The picture is of the left side, according to the Longacre instructions, it is actually a 40° sweep in total. 20 back and 20 foreword. I watch some YouTube on it too, it seems to be the common instruction for a bubble gauge.
They sure know what to get for those adjustable arms, wow! I'm halfway tempted to pull the engine this winter and cut everything loose and make it all right . I have some cobble up motor mounts in there that drive me nuts and some cobbled up steering welding and I would like to clean up as well. Both are safe but, they just look like crap and it bothers me. We'll see what winter brings.
I just came across this thought, how about cutting both sides of the arm, welding in some nut slugs inside of the arms and installing a adjusting bolt on both sides of the arm, fine thread 1/2 or 5/8 whatever would fit nice. I should be able to move the arm then right?