value of wrecked streetrod pickup?

I spent over three years doing a frameoff resto with updated equipment on a 62 fleetside shortbed with big back window for my son. Last week, an elderly lady made a sweeping left at 20 mph and came down the middle of the street and hit him head-on even after he stopped 2 car-lengths short of the intersection and honked. The front foot of this beautiful truck is demolished on the left front, below the hood and both frame rails are bent.
Even though there is no dispute regarding fault, I'm really fearing that the lady's insurance company is not going to play fair on the value because of the age of this truck. The resto has less than 5k miles on the odo and the truck lives in my garage while my son is away at college, so I carry liability only on it.
If anyone has any experience settling restored pricing with the other party's insurance, I'd really like to hear some positive stories (if they exist!)

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Originally Posted by DennyW

The first thing I would do, is get a hold of an old car adjuster, appraiser. Get written documentation on the value, not just the average insurance guy.

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This was my first thought also. I might try finding one in Hemmings Motor News.

Having spent a few years "doing battle" with insurance guys what Denny and Richard suggest is a good start. Have the appraiser value the car in pre-accident condition. As a typical "rule of thumb" insurance companies will "total" a car when repair costs are estimated at approximately 80% of full determined value, the rest is considered salvage value for the good, salvagable components on the rig. As additional ammunition the survey of Hemmings, or any of dozens of online sale sites, including ebay, will give you multiple examples of comparable values. Be aware though, with the exception of ebay, all the others are ASKING prices, not sales prices, which are more representative of market value.

Even if you do all that research and pay for your own appraisal, the insurance folks may try to blow that info off, or buffalo you. They may still undervalue your vehicle (assuming you've done an honest job of finding a value rather than trying to fool yourself). They don't make money by being generous. You have another avenue of appeal. Your state probably has an Insurance Commissioner. Their job is to "license" insurance companies to do business in your state. If an insurance company gets a complaint through the Insurance Commissioner's office, they usually respond quickly and more fairly as too many complaints in their file could jeopardize their ability to do business in the state. You have to demonstrate to the Commissioner's office that you've tried to work it out with the company first, so this isn't your first avenue of effort. This is when having documentation, as much as possible (he who has the thickest file wins in these kinds of deals) will work for you. Just going in with your opinion against theirs (remember, they're the "professionals") isn't to your advantage.

If they are close, but the value is still too low for them to justify repairing it you have another option. You can take their settlement amount, pay them the estimated salvage value (in essence buy back your rig) and then spend whatever extra amount is necessary to fully return it to pre-accident conditon. The drawback to this process is you'll likely have to surrender your existing title and request a re-issue from the state, at which time they'll give you a title marked "salvage" or "salvage recovery" or some such terminology. This title "branding" usually diminishes the value in the future since the next buyer will be suspicious of the repair quality and will either kill the deal, or expect to pay some lesser amount to compensate for unknown concerns.

:rolleyes: bob and the guys are right! i know its too late now
but when my ride was about 80% completed i was talked into getting the
29'er appraised.4 years ago! $18000 dollars(can), a year ago it was appraised at $22000(can), still not finished!
the unique thing about this is the appraiser,will in you're situation, go to
court with you and in almost all cases the insurance company will settle for his appraised value!
i know that this is small consulation since this accident has already happened
but its something to think about!

To pre-empt a lowball $800 offer, I have already sent them a letter explaining the whole restoration process, stressing that every single bolt was turned and every item replaced or reconditioned and cleaned and painted. I also pointed out that the truck is a rare model that has had power steering and brakes, a/c, a locking tilt column and a complete, updated rewiring. I enclosed several e-bay auctions supporting $15k of value and a repair specification sheet.
I have offered four choices: 1) Full value total 2) Full value total minus $3000 for allowing me to keep the salvage 3) Sign my "repair specification contract" and have it repaired (which includes detailing and installing a new chassis) or 4) Replacing the truck with an exact replacement that has been frame-offed, equipped, and detailed as ours has
Their appraiser was sent out the next day and is a street rodder and former body shop owner. He took pics of the special details of the truck and Mooneyes odometer with under 5k miles on it. He sympathized and said his report would honestly state the pre-accident condition of the truck, but that we should still expect a tough fight over establishing actual value.
As a side note, I loaded the thing on the car trailer and visited some body shops and learned the downside of telling them that insurance is involved.... They were each more than willing to take on the repair, but explained that I would have to give them the job and that the actual repairs and pricing would be determined by the adjuster.
While I wouldn't necessarily need to know what's being paid, I have a real problem with the scope of repair being under the control of a guy that is paid to save the insurance company money! What happens when they do it half-fast but it looks good to the un-discerning eye? Would a court not consider me petty for rejecting less-than-perfect repairs?
In the second round of estimate-searching, I'm going to have to tell the shops that I'm a post-settlement cash customer to actually get estimates written!

Keep in mind..........an estimate is an estimate.........not a bid.

Don at this point it may be good to talk to a lawyer. SOme of the questions I owuld ask (provided the insurance settlement is not what you feel is fair) would be things like compensation for diminished value, if you have any recourse to sue the driver of the other vehicle for the difference in insurance payoff/ reair cost be different.

Man that suck's. I know what you are feeling. Luckily in my case the insurance company is going along wth what the body shop est.. And any thing else that comes up.
st thing is see what her insurance company say's If that does not fit with you then do some research for a good atturney. Hopefully one that is a gearhead.


:cool:

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Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

If they are close, but the value is still too low for them to justify repairing it you have another option. You can take their settlement amount, pay them the estimated salvage value (in essence buy back your rig) and then spend whatever extra amount is necessary to fully return it to pre-accident conditon.

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What Bob said is pretty much spot on with my experience ... An old lady ran a red light and smashed the front of my 65 C-10. I initially and fairly quickly received a verbal estimate of 500 bucks from her insurance. :eek: :CRY: :mad: She said that was all they could give me since there was no established value for my truck. I took before and after photos along with Sale adds and such to a lawyer. Once he contacted them ... they were singing a different tune. I had 4 body shops give me estimates for repairs, and the amount I received was about midway of all the estimates 6,200. I did'nt have to worry with the salvage title, though initially they were wanting to do it like that. I actually spent 8,000 repairing it, It seemed like a good time for some changes. The biggest part is establishing value. I was told by the lawyer that if I had classic vehicle's insurance with an "agreed upon value" or an actual appraisal It would have been easier.
I would go visit with a lawyer to see if he could help you any.

Gary

I've been surfing a bit and found a few resources: NADAGUIDES.com establishes three retail values: low,average and high. A 1963 shortbed fleetside (with no other specifics asked) is showing $7800, $14500, and $25600.
Manheim gold has categories fair, good, excellent, and show with $2800, $6000, $11500, and $15000 as their opinion for a 63 fleetside (not even specifics about long or short) There is also autoappraisalnetwork.com that I can hire if this thing becomes nasty..... The silence is deafening right now.... I'd really like to move forward!

Before and after

Ok
Wow .. thats a pretty good smack there ... I think I have yours beat though...
Here are my before wreck, after wreck, and after repair pics.

Before - http://www.gschexnayder.com/Picture_0183.JPG
Wrecked - http://www.gschexnayder.com/100_1536.JPG
Fixed - http://www.gschexnayder.com/100_1468.jpg

I put a 1 piece tilt front cap on it ... please do make it a point to get in touch with me prior to doing the same to yours ... there were certain things I was not aware of when I did this... Its not a bad thing .. just things you should know and stuff to make sure is done to them.;)

Oh yeah BTW, after jumping through many hoops to show it ... they agreed the value for mine was at 15.

How much did they subtract when you kept the salvage and did they force a salvage title on you? (if you don't mind me asking)

To me, that truck is totally fixable....They shouldnt write it off.......Just getting enough money out of the other drivers insurance company will be the thing....Your insurance company should help with that.

truck needs a new fender, bumper and grill it looks like, not too bad. have it appraised. I don't see any more than 2k worth of damage, having a shop fix it, and that truck will appraise for more than 2k for shure.

What you can't see in the picture is that both framerails are bent about 40 degrees to the left at about the point where the idler arm and stabilizer bar bolt up. This is behind the crossmember that the radiator sits on. The parts list of bent sheetmetal and structures (not including the chassis) totals $2058 from LMC. Two body shops have said that they can fix the frame, but I don't think I'm out of line to want it replaced, which the shops aren't interested in getting involved with.
I think the most amicable solution is going to be the insurance paying me full value minus salvage (without tainting my title) and I will personally spend the hundreds of hours necessary to put the thing back together properly with all straight, new stuff. This way I will not have to do battle over inadequate repairs done by bad-attitude, slam-it-out professionals that are being micro-managed on this job by an insurance company guy that is bent on doing it cheap. The insurance company's obligation to provide a rental car will be done when they cut a check, which could make it the cheaper way to go for them.
I have to allow them the opportunity to repair, and I will..... on my terms and by contract!

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Originally Posted by AzDon

How much did they subtract when you kept the salvage and did they force a salvage title on you? (if you don't mind me asking)

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They actually didn't subtract anything, or try to force a salvage title. My lawyer heckeled them so much, they decided to pay me the amount estimated for repairs. Actually they paid it to my lawyer, and he kept his cut ... :eek: :rolleyes: I brought it to a friend's body shop and let them have a crack at straightening the frame rails(mine was bent pretty much the same as you are describing yours). After that I decided to try out the 1 piece glass front cap. The total amount paid by the insurance compamy was closer to 10g. The lawyer cover the ambulance bill, ER bill, and of course the Heckeling. In the end I ended up with the middle estimate to repair my truck. Nothing more. Which is all I wanted in the first place.

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Originally Posted by AzDon

What happens when they do it half-fast but it looks good to the un-discerning eye? Would a court not consider me petty for rejecting less-than-perfect repairs?

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you have the right to have the vehicle repairs to your standards. if you feel the repair is less than what it should be, you reject the the vehicle repair, and have them fix it like you want it done. DO NOT sign anything untill you are satisfied with the job.

It turned out that the first appraiser that came out to see the truck was in philisophical agreement with me about it's value at 15K (nadaguides says 15k to 25k) and wrote his report in support of that value.
In the meantime, I had become quite stressed to learn that the insurance company uses Valuescope data to support whatever value conclusions they desire and make them psuedo-lawyerproof. Valuescope is an evil subcontract provider of of quasi-bogus values based on supposed published ad prices for vehicles that are usually found to be not comparable when Valuescope's victims do their homework.
Anyway, after 90 days of delays while we drove their rental car, we agreed to, and were paid 15k minus $900 we paid to retain the salvage. They did force a salvage title on me, though:(
I spent the next three months personally returning the truck to perfect straightness and I was able to do it for less than two grand.
I've learned the lesson that buying agreed value insurance would have eliminated the worry by having an insurance company with a stake in the outcome fighting for my value.
I'm currently pricing policies..... Does anybody know anything about Atlas/Elite or Classic Auto Insurance? A consumer can't be too careful these days!
Here it is: good as new!!

I personaly use American National Chrome insurance it is by far the most resonable and I have been in your shoes many times. They paid out quickly and never tried to low ball us. Glad to see the truck was repairable to your standards.

I'm glad to see that everything worked out and you got the truck repaired to original condition.

An agreed value policy is definitely the way you want to go. If the other persons' company stalls at paying, your insurer will usually pay to have the vehicle repair to yours and their satisfaction, then thy go after the other insurer. Keeps the customer happy and out of the litigation business.

I currently have my cars with Grundy Worldwide (www.grundy.com) have also had policies with Hagerty (www.hagerty.com). You can also get agreed value insurance from numerous other specialty insurance companies plus regular insurance companies, like State Farm. Just make sure you get an agreed value policy.

Glad to see you sort of came out of it ok. What about the salvage title, is that going to screw up anything licensing wise??? I have heard that salvage titles prohibit the car going back on the road.

Evidently you have checked this out I am sure. Truck looks great BTW. Gotta watch out for those little old ladies, when they panic they always go for the gas pedal. :eek:


Don

A salvage title in Arizona is convert-able to a "restored salvage" title which is functionally 100% useable. The downside is that your vehicle is then (supposedly) worth only half as much on the open market and when another incident arises involving insurance companies. Once the vehicle was minimally roadworthy, I was able to take it to MVD for a "level 3" inspection and pay $55 to get the "restored" title. There is no way to ever get rid of this designation except to rebuild the truck on a platform with a clear title. I need to get "agreed value" insurance more than ever now that value could be put into question. Thanks for the responses!