vin tag and title rip-off

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Originally Posted by 41willys

I read an article which said that the company creating the new 69 camaros are building them around old firewalls with the VIN still attached. I think the quote was something like "..they are using up most of the junk 69 camaros around to build these cars..."

I thought that Unique, in Texas, was busted for basically doing the same thing with Mustangs?:confused:

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It is to my understanding that the 1's doing the '57 Chevy convert bodies are building around factory firewalls that the owners/ puchaser provides. wonder if the 1's with the Cameros are doing the same thing.

There is a difference between changing VIN tags on cars and building a new car around an existing firewall. A significant difference.

Changing VIN numbers on a car is fraud and, like others have pointed out, is a Federal offense. There is an element of deception involved.

Building a car using an old firewall plus a new sheetmetal body does not entail the element of deception since the existing VIN is not exchanged with another VIN....the lineage of the VIN is not changed. The latter (new sheetmetal and old firewall) is akin to reconstructing a wrecked car.

As someone said, the Body Tag has the SS info....but for some cars, the VIN also has some basic info....IF the SS was a trim option on that car in that year, the Trim Tag has it. If the SS is a model, the VIN may have a designator. For instance, my 1970 Z/28 had the Z/28 as a specific digit in the VIN and when I tried to pawn it off to the insurance company, they wouldnt believe it was a 6 cyl. because the model indicator said Z/28.

mike in tucson

Here is a VIN decoder for a 1965 Chevelle

1965 Chevelle/El Camino VINS ~ Chevellestuff.com

note that the VIN indicates the SS model plus the info if it is either a 6 cylinder SS or a V8 SS!!

The "buy a title" process was pretty standard procedure back in the day. If you bought a 30 Ford with no title, and managed to buy a title for a 30 Ford somewhere, that's how it was done. Most of the DMVs didn't care - and if they did, it was hard to catch.

However, it has been done so much that it's on the radar of the inspectors in most states. It's done, but it's taking a pretty severe risk.

Floyd Cotterpin got his fanny in a sling for using the "old title" process. Buying a title and representing it as the real title for a car built up from parts, a kit, or a car of the same year/make/model that was bought without a title is illegal virtually everywhere. In Virginia, it is a state felony. It is a separate felony to fill out the paperwork with false statements.

The camaro purists get pretty seamed anytime this comes up, as I suppose any collectors would. Some serious money can be made illegally by switching tags "cloning for profit". I can see their point. It would be like buying a priceless antique only to find out it's a clever knock off. :eek:

Jack,

Actually what got Coddington in trouble is that they were registering cars in a manner devised to circumvent the sales and registration taxes. The Cobra community was the original focus of the state gestapo...they discovered that folks were registering $50K ++ Cobras as 1965 Fords and the state of Kalifornia was missing out on a bunch of taxes and license fees. Of course, one gestapo guy made the connection to Coddington since he watched the show. Now, all of the states are wise to the ways to get cars registered.... here in Arizona, a $100,000 car pays an initial license fee (first year) of about $2000. Such makes it cheaper to buy an already-licensed car and "convert" it into the new car....and toss the donor car.

If you look closely at most government operations, there is a $$ motive...not a motive to help you and me.

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Originally Posted by sgo70

You see this a lot in chopper building, you cut the neck off your bike with the VIN number attached and then restore the frame around it. After all the hoops I had to jump through and ridiculous fees I had to pay to someone who knows nothing about the engineering that goes into it, I would probably do that if I ever build another. It cost me about $1000 in the end and took half the summer.

So if you cut the section of the body off with the tags on it is there a law that tells you how much of the car you can restore??? It's just a giant patch panel for the door sill, wheels included:D .

Sean

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Don't see it too much with bikes( I work in a bike shop) I do here about wood boat restores where a sliver of wood is reused and a new boat built around it. If I build a '32 thats much safer and better than the original and can get my hands on a title or registration, you bet your posi rear end I would use it. Better resale better chance of insurance and better chance to finance it too.

Robot,

That's one of the reasons the states clamped down - $$$$$.

Back when I registered my 30 A-bone (see my photos), the clerk argued with me because of the value. However, there was no way to enforce higher values for upgraded cars at the time. I asked them the clerk how she would tax my 68 GTO if I added a $20,000 engine and a $15,000 paint job. She said that was my business, but that a street rod 30 was a "special deal." I asked for a supervisor, and she told the clerk to register it as a 1930 Ford at minimum tax rates. My taxes on the A were about $45 a year.

I'm not commenting about the source of the title.