This Is Not A CraigsList Notice

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Originally Posted by 1gary

To "vote" someone else in office just because.............and that someone else isn't a sure bet,is bad logic.
This statement is going to get people to post,but if you think neither choice are good ones,then don't vote.
We are quick to lay blame,but it is a fact the office of president can't all on his own do what you are suggesting is the result of "the mess" we are in. It takes congress to do that.
The concept of every man is responsible for his own destiny is not really how it works.Talk to Pat or Jerry or me for that matter,to open and run a business it takes more than hard work.Bottom line it takes money.It is like having a huge order and not the machines,labor,or raw materials to fill the order.Who limits that success??. Really doesn't take that much of a imagination to conclude that. To say Obama isn't for the small business and that is why we can't elevate ourselfs just doesn't make sense. It is been money the issue for alot longer than Obama has been in office. A system of have and have nots.

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obama want to level it all to the have not.s and he will be one of the haves. as for how i conduct my business.what or how i do..or done ..i would thank you to keep my business out of it . as it has nothing to do with this post BUT seeing how your drag me in it . obama has never helped me. what i have built i have done with my two hands and with help of few others he is not on the list.i do vote and i will vote .. and you can bet it will not be for the guy you think is a keeper

Apparently your experience is/was different from mine Gary. I've seen lots of folks throw big piles of money (often borrowed) at starting a business and fail miserably (not to mention Solyndra). Starting and growing a successful business of course requires a capital investment, but just like the discussion points we hit yesterday, it takes thoughtful effort and hard work to put that capital to successful use. I had a TV reporter buddy come to my business one day to gather info for a story he was working on. Wanted to know how difficult it was for me to borrow enough money to start my business. I disappointed him by telling him I didn't borrow any of my meager startup cash, I sold my house and used the fairly modest amount realized as the seed money. He was disappointed that my story didn't support his incorrect belief based on what passes for common knowledge. And I know I'm not unique in that experience in any way, as I've known a good number of other motivated people who have done similarly. My objective was to get the business successful enough to fund it's own growth..........which it did. Uusally I don't respond to your posts so as to not point out how you contradict yourself, often within a sentence or two, but when it comes to small business matters and the peddling of wives tales I just can't hold back.

Now, on to something more important in my mind. We often hear, and some of us say, this is a watershed election. As such, that means that there is a lot at stake for ideologies. It's a clear choice between turning our country into one run by self annointed elites and the "do it for me" citizens who elect them, and those who value the freedom to make their own life choices, earn what they are worth, and pass that along to their family and any others of their choice. We see those who choose to blind themselves to principles of economics 101 by calling it names, denegrate those that disagree by flinging what they think are insults, and making excuses for their guy in one sentence while painting their political opposite with the same brush they just exempted their guy from. That's just the way it is.

Part of the support group for the elites who think they should direct how we live our lives is the media complex; newspapers/websites, TV, radio, movies/celebrities and a number of newer forms of digital communication. Be prepared that in the next month and a half to election day that there will be a flood of "stories" reported that will attempt to discourage you (if you're not in support of the elites) from voting. Polls will be manipulated to make it appear that the Pres. is undefeatable, and that his popularity/electability is greater than reality. You (and those you might support) will be painted again with the racist brush. Distraction will be hyped such as last week when a single Romney comment about the murder of our Amabasador gets way more "news" coverage than all of the circumstances of faulty political decision making that led to that murder. It's all an effort to take attention away from the reality that our current President is not running on his own record of meager performance and abandoned promises, but that he continues to run on themes that make it sound like someone else has been President for the past near 4 years. We'll be told he doesn't deserve blame for the failures because it's too big a job for one man/one term, that the job's not done yet but almost there...............despite the fact that he made commitments that if he were given what he asked for, and was actually given, that he could get it done. Never a question from his media toadies like, well, if you were wrong then, why should be believe you now? (well, the Univision reporter yesterday did come close though).

All this discussion we do here is entertaining to one degree or another, both the rational insight and the humorous duplicity, but there is one thing that all of us who don't want this country to complete the march to European like decline: get to the polls on election day.............no matter how discouraged you may become, no matter how the media will try to make you think you can't win, no matter how many slurs are thrown at you, none of that b.s. will stick if you don't let it....................vote, vote, vote. This election will turn on which side gets their adherents to the voting booth. Even if your ideal candidate didn't make it to the ballot, remember................the objective is to end the downward spiral of our economy/society, it won't happen in one day, one week, one year, but if we don't remove the champion of dependence on government, we'll never get there. Don't let the discouragement express that's just getting up to speed beat you.

Once again Bob, very, very well said. I share your sentiments on every point made, but you are much more eloquent than I in stating the facts. I especially agree with your analysis of the importance of voting. Sometimes a vote is for what one considers to be the lesser of evils, but in every case not voting is playing into the hands of the current administration. Here in Kansas there are opportunities to request an absentee ballot to vote by mail; to go into a special polling place to vote early for at least two weeks prior to election day, if not more; and then the act of going to the polls on election day. No matter what anyone tells you, VOTE! Anyone advising you not to exercise your right to vote is attempting to take away one of your most precious rights. Please do not listen to them. VOTE!

Bob, thank you for taking time to post.

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Originally Posted by prpmmp

As far as Pete(prpmmp) and by implication, Pepi (which I doubt) being drunks - not sure that is what I would like to be known as and a less then great statement of personal pride.

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Just trying to lighten the tension here! No Pepi I was not implying that you are a drunk!! I open my mouth just to change feet!! Pete[/QUOTE]

No worry I know who and what I am, but thank you for the clarification, btw I took it that way.

Y'all bring to mind the Southpark episode which highlighted the importance of voting: even though the choice is ALWAYS between a giant douche or a turd sandwich.

We(my partner and me not least of all his wife) where told that you can't make money racing. Now we have had for yrs a knack for running a successful business that certainly was unconventional. Before the racing operation there was a sizable sound and light company that rented systems to bar bands.Ten different systems in fact. When the drinking age was raised to 21 the number of possible bars band could get work shrunk considerably. As luck would have it a guy came along and wanted to buy the company at a asking price no questions asked. Well we couldn't get a contract drawn up fast enough. And all along we had done fairly well with the company. Didn't get rich,but certainly didn't starve either.

So now we have this money and low and behold we decide we are going to use it for seed money for a racing operation. We where like alot of our guys just making the same mistakes. Good thing my partner's wife was involved. She hauled in the rains,but never lost her support or belief in what we wanted to do. We where buying and selling recondition SBC parts and that did fairly well. We had a routine where we would selective buy parts at a Syr auction and one week later sell them at the Drag Racer's auction in Indy with a profit margin that nothing else would match.I am not boasting.but one trip we cleared $10,000 profit.

A apart of what we came up with I think was rubbed off by another vendor named Dale Wilch. He has a traitor trailer he uses to sell mainly recondition hard core parts and mainly stuff like from top fuel cars. With that he actually had a top fuel car he raced on his own dime. We though if at his level he could make money,why couldn't we??. My partner had dabbled in used car sales and thought why could we flip sell race cars too. Hehe the first sponsor we had was a bank. Needless to say they wouldn't be running of money anytime soon. But many people have told us over the yrs you can't do that as they watched for a long time us show up with a different car each season because we sold the car from the yr before at a decent profit buy distress sale cars from guys who didn't have money to finish them. That seed money has grown to a amazing amount over the yrs. And we owe no one for it. It has taken talent,conviction,and god knows how much hard work. And my partner's wife to give direction from a keen sense of business. But those people who still tell us you can't do that,well we tell them your right and go and do it anyways turning it into a business and a success. It has also been a case of extreme luck the fact that the three of us came together.

What is my point for all this??. I still wonder where we would be today if the seed money had been better funded??. It is the same case I tried to make for Pat. Pat I'm sorry if you took my comments the wrong way. He is likely one of the most under rated engine builders I know. With his knowledge I can only wonder where he would be in a premier machine shop that had national ad campaign funding. And I am not saying what he has now is anything wrong with it,but how about a dyno room and a wheel dyno too.A engine shop that has all the bells and whistles. With what he knows he would bury the competition.

Sooo,the long route around,but the main point is it is a issue of money that prevents most people from elevating they position in life. Self made millionaires are a rare commodity. Our society has a built in prevention from that happening. Certainly Obama or Mitt has nothing to do with that. But we have had the same issue with money for yrs.

Again Pat,I say what I did out of the deepest respect for you and your products.

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Originally Posted by Bob Parmenter

Apparently your experience is/was different from mine Gary. I've seen lots of folks throw big piles of money (often borrowed) at starting a business and fail miserably (not to mention Solyndra). Starting and growing a successful business of course requires a capital investment, but just like the discussion points we hit yesterday, it takes thoughtful effort and hard work to put that capital to successful use. I had a TV reporter buddy come to my business one day to gather info for a story he was working on. Wanted to know how difficult it was for me to borrow enough money to start my business. I disappointed him by telling him I didn't borrow any of my meager startup cash, I sold my house and used the fairly modest amount realized as the seed money. He was disappointed that my story didn't support his incorrect belief based on what passes for common knowledge. And I know I'm not unique in that experience in any way, as I've known a good number of other motivated people who have done similarly. My objective was to get the business successful enough to fund it's own growth..........which it did. Uusally I don't respond to your posts so as to not point out how you contradict yourself, often within a sentence or two, but when it comes to small business matters and the peddling of wives tales I just can't hold back.

Now, on to something more important in my mind. We often hear, and some of us say, this is a watershed election. As such, that means that there is a lot at stake for ideologies. It's a clear choice between turning our country into one run by self annointed elites and the "do it for me" citizens who elect them, and those who value the freedom to make their own life choices, earn what they are worth, and pass that along to their family and any others of their choice. We see those who choose to blind themselves to principles of economics 101 by calling it names, denegrate those that disagree by flinging what they think are insults, and making excuses for their guy in one sentence while painting their political opposite with the same brush they just exempted their guy from. That's just the way it is.

Part of the support group for the elites who think they should direct how we live our lives is the media complex; newspapers/websites, TV, radio, movies/celebrities and a number of newer forms of digital communication. Be prepared that in the next month and a half to election day that there will be a flood of "stories" reported that will attempt to discourage you (if you're not in support of the elites) from voting. Polls will be manipulated to make it appear that the Pres. is undefeatable, and that his popularity/electability is greater than reality. You (and those you might support) will be painted again with the racist brush. Distraction will be hyped such as last week when a single Romney comment about the murder of our Amabasador gets way more "news" coverage than all of the circumstances of faulty political decision making that led to that murder. It's all an effort to take attention away from the reality that our current President is not running on his own record of meager performance and abandoned promises, but that he continues to run on themes that make it sound like someone else has been President for the past near 4 years. We'll be told he doesn't deserve blame for the failures because it's too big a job for one man/one term, that the job's not done yet but almost there...............despite the fact that he made commitments that if he were given what he asked for, and was actually given, that he could get it done. Never a question from his media toadies like, well, if you were wrong then, why should be believe you now? (well, the Univision reporter yesterday did come close though).

All this discussion we do here is entertaining to one degree or another, both the rational insight and the humorous duplicity, but there is one thing that all of us who don't want this country to complete the march to European like decline: get to the polls on election day.............no matter how discouraged you may become, no matter how the media will try to make you think you can't win, no matter how many slurs are thrown at you, none of that b.s. will stick if you don't let it....................vote, vote, vote. This election will turn on which side gets their adherents to the voting booth. Even if your ideal candidate didn't make it to the ballot, remember................the objective is to end the downward spiral of our economy/society, it won't happen in one day, one week, one year, but if we don't remove the champion of dependence on government, we'll never get there. Don't let the discouragement express that's just getting up to speed beat you.

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Bob.Here is my believe.I never make choices of a lesser evil. I do think in this election that is what we have. Mitt,his choice for vise president,all stinks of old school smoky back room Republican politics. If you want to point out failures all you have to do is look back at the same old same old failures the go way beyond both Bush's and the tactic of them deadlocking congress. I think there is no freedom in their minds for anyone. Only self serving interests. I can imagine the leader of the Republican party John B.,who acts like he is president but isn't and couldn't run himself,pulling all the strings on Mitt and all the while he is responsible for the deadlock. How in gods name do you reward those kind of motives??. These people are just bad people.

People can talk about attachments to the health plan of Obama. Thing is we don't recognize is that is the way business gets done on the other side of the beltway. All those bills have the same thing from either party. Without those attachments,the bills never get to the floor of congress.

The biggest thing we need to understand,is congress is the main factor where the country is going and not so much who the setting president is.It is those elections of congress that is critical.

“…..i have been in business for myself since 1980. so i know a little about it also. but your defense of a man who has done nothing doesn't hunt around here……”

Lately the topic has revolved mostly around the economy ….. admittedly a major concern for a lot of us, and a sore point for many of us who are or have run our own businesses. But there are a lot of other issues that make me seriously question if we really want this administration to have 4 more years in charge:

Illegal immigration: This administration has sued to halt every state that has tried to enact laws to enforce any illegal immigration laws. Thru executive order it has directed selective enforcement of federal laws already on the books designed to expel illegal immigrants from the country. But what do you expect when president had an illegal alien Aunt (who was living in public housing and drawing welfare while on a deportation order…. who has since been granted asylum) , and an illegal alien Uncle (picked up for DUI and still in the country) in his family tree.

Voter registration/identification: Again this administration has sued almost every state that has tried to enact more stringent requirements particularly when it comes to picture ID for potential voters.

Personal witch hunts: Sheriff Joe Arpaio was under Federal investigation of over 2 years before the case was closed with no charges brought. His real crime, enforcing immigration laws and being an outspoken Obama critic.

Use of federal agencies to expand Government control over what should be private sector matters: Keep in mind these agencies heads are appointed by and serve at the pleasure of the president. There are lots of examples, but a couple of my pet ones are; trying to shove E15 down our throats by the EPA and bringing family farms under unrealistic federal child labor laws. Rural kids, parents angry about Labor Dept. rule banning farm chores | The Daily Caller

Federal bail outs, incentive programs, and other mis-guided spending : This has been beat to death, but besides the ones already talked about anybody remember the “cash for clunkers” program. How about the Navy’s “Green Fleet” paying $27 a gallon for Bio fuel with our current economy.

Personal responsibility: When it was announced that Bin Laden had finally been killed the President’s speech was filled with “I” when he talked. However if the mission had failed the Memo had already been written that would have placed the blame firmly on Admiral McRaven.

And while we’re on the subject, no other US President in history has ever bowed to a foreign head of state (this one has bowed to the Saudi King and Japanese emperor). We fought a revolution so we would never have to bow again.

I could probably fill several pages with more examples, but I’ll leave it at..... this is not the direction I want to see my country keep going in…….(this is me climbing off the soap box).

Ok, me climbing back on the box.

I just read Gary’s post and he makes a valid point about Congress. However I do not recall EVER seeing an administration before this using executive orders and regulatory agencies (who’s heads are appointed by the President) to circumvent the congress to the extent this one has.

Just another reason I believe it is time for a change, all we can do is hope.


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It is not a perfect world there are no prefect people living on earth. So the question then becomes, stay the course and get more of the same or suck it up and try another way?

As with any machine and government is a machine, in order to repair it the bad parts must be removed and replaced. To keep installing the same bad part is a sign of insanity. Hopefully there are enough sane people still voting in America, if not then I hope the insane will be to stupid to go to the polls.

I cannot wait to vote and I think there are a heck of a lot of others out here that feel the same way. There is an energy vibrating and silent that I have not felt is awhile. I felt it after 911 everyone on the same page, single mind set and I think it is humming again.

BTW both my wife and myself vote the same we are plus 2, she dose that cause she is a smart person.

when someone starts complaining about big business and rich people i stop listening . those are people who are envious of others success and unhappy with their own life. welfare recipients do not create jobs . they do not fund your 401k . corporations do . they are sucking the life out of our country like a kissing spider . i have no problem helping someone who is down but making a career out of entitlements is wrong . the democrats put the far left , the echoterrorists , and the wlefare crowd together to get obama into office. we have seen the socialist bills , the green tech forced on us , and entitlements increase. so i guess he did keep some of his promises .

you can find fault with any president we have ever had but that is not a reason to give a failed administration 4 more years. give me any example of what bush did and i can match it with a democrat . leadership abilities are what is important. being able to get bipartisan support to get things done . obama has thumbed his nose at at congress and will never get anything done . he is the president , not the king .

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Originally Posted by shine

when someone starts complaining about big business and rich people i stop listening . those are people who are envious of others success and unhappy with their own life. welfare recipients do not create jobs . they do not fund your 401k . corporations do . they are sucking the life out of our country like a kissing spider . i have no problem helping someone who is down but making a career out of entitlements is wrong . the democrats put the far left , the echoterrorists , and the wlefare crowd together to get obama into office. we have seen the socialist bills , the green tech forced on us , and entitlements increase. so i guess he did keep some of his promises .

you can find fault with any president we have ever had but that is not a reason to give a failed administration 4 more years. give me any example of what bush did and i can match it with a democrat . leadership abilities are what is important. being able to get bipartisan support to get things done . obama has thumbed his nose at at congress and will never get anything done . he is the president , not the king .

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Now Shine.We both know that the welfare system was in place long before Obama.Right??. And to no "small part" did congress "play a role" in that. Or any other bills for that matter. I like Richard's suggestion the best. A non partisan patriot in the office of president and a system of the same in congress.
I am not envious of others success.In fact I am very proud of our own.

did i say he started welfare ??? no he didn't but he is making sure they areh is #1 supporters.
tell me what he has done . i'm all ears .

Just check out Mississippi----poorest state in union and the churches instead of bible study have classes on appling for and getting welfare--no one works!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Just check out Mississippi----poorest state in union and the churches instead of bible study have classes on appling for and getting welfare--no one works!!!!!!!!!

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Jerry.All due respect,but given the weather issues and destruction that has happened,I would expect the churches to do exactly that. Bottom line is there are no jobs. And isn't interesting with all the gaming places there,isn't it a classic case of the haves and have nots??.

have's = those who hit the ground running every morning to make a living.
have not's = those who lay up in bed and let someone else worry about it.

there is always work for a man willing to work . but having a gal with 3-4 kids drawing welfare and a check on each kid is easier than actually working. one of the new tricks is to force the school into putting the kids in special ed. then they can draw an ssi check on them. not to mention the 2500 each they get back on income taxes even though they pay none.
this is what is wrong. much of it was started by the damn republicans when they shifted left some years ago. they now realize it was a complete failure and are out to change it. when they make more on welfare than taking a job they are not about to go to work. they get free health care / dental , free child care , food stamps , free housing , free cell phone . tell me this is not messed up .

kudo's to the states that require the parasites to take a drug test. everybody else does.