This Is Not A CraigsList Notice

As a person undecided, and unhappy with both candidates, I enjoy this thread. It's a source of a lot of info, I can't find elsewhere. Like Bob said, the effects of this next election will be huge on the direction our hobby(repressented by this site) will go in the future. To be honest I am even more concerned about what will happen to our 2nd Ammendment Rights, as a result of who gets elected. Here in california, if a quack can dream it, it becomes a possibility of a law. I worry that by time I get my truck on the road, I won't be allowed to use it. I already don't have the right to defend and protect it here, without the chance of me ending up in jail, protecting my property. I like the discussions concerning what's next to be a legal requirement. Will we eventually have to wear helmets in our cars as that will be safer? Cell phones manditory so we can call 911? Health Insurance manditory for citizens but not illegals at the cost of tax paying citizens? These are real questions that deserve discussion, if for no other reason, than make people stop and think, listen to what is being said and question it, instead of blindly accepting it. I believe a few hundred years ago, most of our ancestors came here to get away from taxation, and big government. Somewhere along the line, they lobbys and and private interest groups, made sure no one would be elected without their support, so now we have candidates who say anything to get elected, but don't deliver once in office. Keep this discussion alive. Thanks Bill.

I agree, I totally enjoy the freeflowing information that is provided, including regional insights of which I may not otherwise be aware. The events of the day are often a direct impact on our hobby, as Bob points out. Case in point, the EPA's recent action on the E15 fuel without the needed research into the true impacts of the increased amounts of ethanol, and their approach to protect older vehicles, lawn equipment, boats, etc, etc, etc by placing stickers on the pumps warning of potential damages, even though some OEM's have mentioned warranty impacts even on newer stuff?? How silly is that?? And Kansas is one of the first states targeted for implementing the switch from E10!!

All things considered I would like to see the thread and the discussions we've had continue. But that said, I for darned sure don't want this thread, or any other thread for that matter, to be the cause of someone walking away from CHR. Hopefully we can all keep things from being seen as personal slings & arrows.

Santorum suspends his race for election.

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Originally Posted by IC2

Just a bit too personal a shot, Mike. I think need a vacation from CHR, for a while, anyhow.

See ya'll in the future. Maybe

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WOW.. UM.. ouch. I certainly NEVER meant to offend anyone, at least not you of all people. I'll apologize vehemently!
Sorry if I became a bit to passionate and frustrated about the topic. Please don't let my participation keep you away.

And to anyone who reads this, I apologize if I offended you. It was never my intention to stir the pot as it were.

Dave's reaction catches me totally off guard and leaves me second guessing.. Again, if I upset or angered you, please accept my apology!

Thanks to the mod's for not tossin' me out! I'll try to do better in the future.

i do not care who is elected . as long as it is a republican . congress can only do so much when they have a pres who is hell bent on taking us down . why else are they a do nothing congress. once the kenyan is gone maybe , just maybe they can straighten out some of this. i am neither a democrate nor a republcan , i am an american . do your job or we'll fire your ass should be written in the halls of justice.

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Originally Posted by shine

I am an american . do your job or we'll fire your ass.

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I wish the american public could / would recite the above. :cool:

I think we all know it but know one( in power) will do it

it is you that has the power. if you dont like your congress vote them out. it is congress who screws us. the president is just a figure head told what to do by those who got him elected. as ross once said " put a bounty on alligator shoes in the halls of congress ". how could anyone think a newb senator with 0 experience could run a country .

Some of the earlier commentary represents my biggest concern in the upcoming election. The Pres. is going to get his "base" to vote for him no matter what. If someone voted for him just because he's a Dem, they aren't going to change...........they'd vote for a floor mop if there was a D behind the name on the bollot. Some Reps are like that too. Some voted for him because they wanted to show (even with a private ballot) they weren't "racist". Others thought that the free goodie line would be more available to them. And more, the list of reasons why people vote the way they do is long. But which way it goes in the total tally is often a matter of how many or which of those show up. Sometimes called "voter entusiasm". In '08, the Reps were a bit thin on enthusiasm for McCain, had it not been for the added enthusiasm for Palin (no matter whether you share in that or not) it could have been a bigger thumpin'. And here we are again, wondering if there will be an enthusiasm gap for Romney.

This time around the Pres. is looking like he's going to have to gin up some enthusiasm. Our dishonest media doesn't talk about it much, but you can bet that the folks who do polling for the Pres have found lots of enthusiasm gap. Those who wanted more free goodies may have gotten some extra, but not as much as they wanted. Those that thought he was really going to close Gitmo.............oooopppps. Again, it's a long list of empty promises from a guy who doesn't really care about governing, just about living in the glow of admiration and enjoying the perks. He really is a classic narcissist.

It's very clear that his tactic will be to always hoist up a distraction..............in the sales game we called it "Hey, look at this shiny thing over here...........!!!" A common ploy when the facts of the situation don't suit your needs, distract those you're trying to influence with something that will set them up for your benefit. So he'll trot out his LOOOONNNGGGG list of "enemies". The evil oil companies, the greedy banks, the mean insurance companies, the rascally Republicans, Fox news, the Supreme Court, blah blah blah..................anything but his record. And if he needs to address his own record what can be spun as good he takes credit for, even though it happened in spite of his efforts (taking credit for increased petroleum resource production as an example), or blaming it on someone else if it's bad ("my predicessor", the do nothing Congress, the rich, blah blah). Seems like the "great uniter" of '08 divides the country an awful lot doesn't it?

Yesterday's dog and pony being an example of what we'll continue to see/hear. Envy is a powerful tool for the dishonest politician. Those evil rich aren't paying their share, that's why the country is in financial trouble. Yeah right. So, let's create the "Buffett Rule". One of the nice things (for some) in deception is it can be shaped into a catchy little phrase to be used over and over again.............never having to be explained, never having to be proven as effective. With the help of an effective propaganda machine the focus of hate can be trotted out every time a weakness is nearing exposure. So "the rich" supposedly not paying their fair share becomes a touchstone. Never mind that IF the so called "Buffett Rule" were imposed, and the wealthy paid the additional tax as computed, we wouldn't see the difference. But communicating why is problematic. It requires thought and analysis, along with the understanding of how/why an economy really works, and a familiarity of history since this sort of taxing has been done a number of times before. If we had an honest media there would have been stories in wide circulation evaluating just what the real impact of "the Buffett Rule" would likely be. First is: how little money it really would raise. The temptation is to start throwing out numbers. Problem is, most folks can't follow that, and anymore, a million, billion, trillion just don't have much impact on folks. The easy idea the Pres sells is; The evil rich will pay, you won't. Bull. Here's an easy to digest summation. If the additional tax collected the amount the Pres claims (which sounds to the average guy like a big number, and it is)it would cover just ONE DAY of the deficit spending this government does. Just ONE DAY. That's how out of control spending has become.....................yet how low is the concern in the general public? So this "significant" tax increase only covers one day, where does the additonal money for the other 364 days come from? The question doesn't get asked, the Pres gets away with the distraction as if he's proposing something serious. Ah, the value of having a bogeyman established (the rich in this example), and a compliant, dishonest media propaganda machine.

I could go on with more such examples, and may over time, but you get the point.

To my ultimate concern. The low enthusiasm for Romney. A President along with a compliant Congress is a dangerous thing. A President hemmed in by a non-cooperative Congress, much less dangerous. That's the way the Founders intended...............with the Supreme Court as another layer of "protection" for citizens rights. It doesn't always work that way (Presidents like W. who were too reluctant to pick up the veto pen as an example), but it helps. If the lack of enthusiasm for Romney persists, it's a real danger that, so called down ticket races for seats in Congress will tilt to the Dems as well, which could put us back to a single party control of the Presidency as well as both houses of Congress. If you thought Obamacare was an abomination, hold on! As for those who think a President Romney would be little different than a President Obama second term, don't forget, if he were hemmed in by a more conservative Congress, any leftist proclivities he may have will be held in check, and if he really is a chameleon he won't buck the Congressional flow. Hey, I can dream can't I?

Thanks, Dave and Mike, for "calming the waters" in a respectful and gentlemanly manner.

I have very much enjoyed this thread.

Loss of either of you gentlemen because of a difference of opinions would lessen the atmosphere of friendly comradery (if that's a word) that exists among the folks who contribute to this site.

We have lost, or nearly lost, several good folks because of discussions that got a little heated. In some cases the loss of one was welcomed but I'd think that most of the time such a departure was not.

Thanks for patching things up.


Jim

my best friend is a straight ticket guy. i'd like to beat him and drag him around the pasture a few times but it would do no good.
but we are in trouble. if getting wound up a little gets things fired up we can take it . if your thin skinned you really need to avoid anything political. there is no time left to debate change. it is time for it to happen. i honestly dont think we can survive another round of this administration or it's policies . bottom line is we have to quit spending. every time they talk about a new tax or cut they turn right around and dump it into some other program. especially green technological or some freebee program for the poor.

and the only party i'm loyal to is the one with free beer. :3dSMILE:
the #1 problem in this country is people dont vote . period. to me if you dont vote dont bitch.

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Originally Posted by rspears

Mike,
I cannot comment on the events in your state government, but state to federal is like apples & oranges

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Roger, there is a quote by someone much more eloquent than I that goes something like "those that ignore the past are doomed to repeat it", I guess I cannot forget how I / We were treated.

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Originally Posted by shine

the #1 problem in this country is people dont vote . period.

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My perspective is that no matter how many times I vote, nothing changes! To me that is the problem. And it's why most young people get frustrated & give up. When you feel that you cannot effect a change, it becomes pointless. What's the definition of insanity? It would fit in nicely here. :rolleyes:

All - Mike and I had a PM discussion and cleared the air.
Roger, thanks as well.

I'm still taking a vacation from here as well as any other sites I occasion though will be checking in occasionally, even if I don't post. There are just too many things going on, including my political commitments to my locality.

Here is a thought that might keep you awake at night the next president will be replacing 1 and maybe 2 conservative judges supreme court and if he can somehow get control of the house and keep the senate that is the end of checks and balances he can make himself president for life and the 2nd amendment is the only way to stop him another civil war ....ted

A few pages back we were talking about commodity traders, more often called "speculators". These guys, of course are demon seeds of the earth, a tool for politicians and media mouths to pillory endlessly as greedy, price fixers, only causing prices to rise for their own greedy benefit.

So now I need some help from those who were arguing with me about their role in the marketplace. How come these guys are "letting" the price of natural gas fall? Wouldn't their excessive greed mean they only drive prices up? Somehow this just doesn't fit the narrative we're often presented with and I need to know why?

supply and demand. mild winter plus the production has increased a lot with the shale gas.

I agree, Bob! Those Evil Speculator's who are buying futures need to buy huge quantities at higher prices to drive the market up!!

OH!! What's that about supply & demand?? C'mon, that's an antiquated theory that no longer applies, right??

Let's see, supply and demand come to mind. Since winter is practically over, the demand for natural gas is falling off and I don't believe that we import that much, same as coal. Now oil (gasoline) is a year round commodity and what better time to raise prices since the summer vacation scene is right around the corner.

They said on the news the other day that they were runing out of storage space for natural gas. Thus the price drop

gas and diesel is up because farmers and construction season filling supply tanks--

Heres an interesting site www.governmentgonewild.org I'm sure there are more of these just somthing to make you think

Well, the North Korean's launched their missile today and it set a new North Korean flight endurance record~!!!!!! This one made it 1 1/2 minutes flight time!!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Scary! Someone yesterday told me to google united states concentration camps, what comes up is frightening! Hope it isn't real!

The Pres. doesn't often give anything that merits honest praise, but today with the release of his latest Federal Income Tax info he deserves a pat on the back.

No, not for the B.S. that his press secretary and the media stenographers will be touting...........crap like "his tax rate is higher than Mitt Romneys...." and so forth, but we can deal with that when real numbers are released by the Romney team. No, rather, he donated some $170k to the Fisher House charity for the children of fallen soldiers........in fact, he donated more to them than he paid in Income Tax! I guess that means even he knows that a private charity is a better steward of money than the Government he runs. Afterall, what he paid in Income Taxes would only cover about a 1/5 of a GSA meeting here in Vegas!

Way to go Prez, a very worthwhile charity indeed!!!!! Number I heard on Romney for the year is $21 mil which I'm sure gives him a lot of insight and understanding into what us commoners make!!! Think I'll email Mitt and tell him if he sponsors a race car for me I'll vote for him!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Number I heard on Romney for the year is $21 mil which I'm sure gives him a lot of insight and understanding into what us commoners make!!!

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Yeah, that's some of the White House spin too. How about looking at it a more realistic way? Since that money is supposedly the result of investing his own earnings, it would appear he knows a good investment when he sees it. When the Pres. "invests" OUR earnings we get bankrupt pixie dust energy ventures like Solyndra, A123, and more. Remind me again, what's wrong with sound investing?

I was a bit flabergasted this morning to read a position piece in the paper from Richard Childress on the merits of increased ethanol content in our fuels. He made the point that the E15 that Nascar runs is a 113octane, produces more power than straight gasoline, and that it's a "green" fuel. He even got into the prodction stream, claiming that the "new" ethanol plants are super efficient, use less water, and provide a needed outlet for agriculture. His point was, "if it's good enough for Nascar it should be good enough for our street cars, too." There was no mention of the incompatibility of the higher alcohol content for older engines, including automotive, off-road, boats, motorcycles, ATV's, lawnmowers, and the list goes on and on and on; nor the problem that while it may be 113octane when fresh it will go into phase seperation, losing significant octane and becoming increasingly corrosive/erosive in short order. None of these issues are a concern for Nascar - Childress is just trying to paint the track green to improve the perception in the eyes of the critical tree huggers. I was disappointed with his diatribe, to say the least, especially considering that Kansas, Missouri and Iowa have been targeted by the EPA to be the first states to embrace E15.

I'd suppose that Childress is just mis-guided.. he has after all aligned himself with GM.. you know, Government Motors!:LOL:

(running and ducking for cover) **)

He seems to forget that his engines are built specifically to run on E15 , unlike all of mine

Have you noticed the big green circle around the fuel fill? How about the stickers on the rollbar and seat sides in cars with onboard, interior cameras? All touting "American Ethanol". You don't get stickers on a car without buying space, either through contributions to the team, or to NASCAR as an organisation, often both. So, it's likely this is effectively a paid spokesperson statement more than anything else. Plus, Sunday is "Earth Day" and NASCAR is deep into the fear of political retribution potential against the sport.

Given that some of the Federal tax reduction subsidies have expired, and that over the past few years more and more disclosure of phony "science" is behind the notions of man caused global warming (or climate change if you prefer) the marketing arm of whatever association is behind the push for ethanol usage is probably gearing up for what they may fear in the future. They may be anticipating there are political changes in the wind for those who make any profit based on federal mandate rather than an earned position in the marketplace based on product merit. Again, alcohol fuel or fuel additive has been with us for most of a century, but didn't earn a place in the energy market based on features and benefits, it got a foothold, finally, based on political mandate. If, as some of us hope, the citizens of this country are coming around to the idea that borrowing at least half the money the Federal Govt spends each year is unsustainable, not to mention insane, they may fear that the mandates that benefit them will be some of the first to be chopped if fiscal discipline really occurs. So, they are turning to a "features/benefits" appeal, the standard approach to a sales formula.

My feel is that if they were forced to compete in the marketplace of energy products, ethanol would become a boutique product.......e.g. racing fuel.

Totalitarian states have repeated over and over in history, each driven by power hungry politicians bolstered by their toadies. Where's ANY historical example of a for profit corporate totalitarian state? Get a grip...................

Didn't think you could come up with one...........................thanks for proving my point.

Every once in awhile sanity prevails and some reality filters through. From an article that appeared this week:

British environmental expert James Lovelock now admits he was an “alarmist” regarding global warming — and says Al Gore was too.
Lovelock previously worked for NASA and became a guru to the environmental movement with his “Gaia” theory of the Earth as a single organism. In 2007 Time magazine named Lovelock one of its “Heroes of the Environment,” and he won the Geological Society of London’s Wollaston Medal in 2006 for his writings on the Gaia theory.
That year he wrote an article in a British newspaper asserting that “before this century is over billions of us will die and the few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in the Arctic where the climate remains tolerable.”
But in an interview this week with MSNBC, Lovelock said a book he is now writing will reflect his new opinion that global warming has not occurred as he had expected.
“The problem is we don’t know what the climate is doing,” he said. “We thought we knew 20 years ago. That led to some alarmist books — mine included — because it looked clear-cut, but it hasn’t happened.
“The climate is doing its usual tricks. There’s nothing much really happening yet. We were supposed to be halfway toward a frying world now.
“The world has not warmed up very much since the millennium. Twelve years is a reasonable time. [The temperature] has stayed almost constant, whereas it should have been rising. Carbon dioxide is rising, no question about that.
“We will have global warming, but it’s been deferred a bit.”
MSNBC reported: “He pointed to Gore’s ‘An Inconvenient Truth’ and Tim Flannery’s ‘The Weather Makers’ as other examples of ‘alarmist’ forecasts of the future.”
Lovelock also declared in the interview that “as an independent and a loner,” he did not mind saying, “All right, I made a mistake,” adding that university or government scientists might fear that admission of such a mistake could jeopardize their funding.
In response to Lovelock’s interview, the Climate Depot website stated: “MSNBC, perhaps the most unlikely of news sources, reports on what may be seen as the official end of the manmade global warming fear movement.”




While that last sentence should prove to be true, and I wish it would, an awful lot of power manipulators have tasted the fruit of control and won't give it up easily. Will people wake up?

The way I look at it theres only one that knows whats going to happen and when, and "He's" not saying

The thing that sticks out the most to me is "jeopardize their funding". If that happened they would have to go out and find a real job.

Yeah Ken, that's why I cut and pasted that particular column..................there's a gold nugget in almost each sentence!

Good article, Bob. A couple of years back I got a copy of a BBC piece, "The Great Global Warming Swindle" The great global warming swindle - Full version - YouTube, which pointed out that the global warming concept was primarily an edict from government to science, much of it British based, to "prove" global warming. Their end point was that the temperature cycles of the atmosphere, and the earth itself, were driven by the oceans emitting CO2 - the amount of CO2 produced by man-made processes, including burning fossil fuels for power or other needs, is something less than 1% of the atmospheric CO2 that is emitted/absorbed by the oceans. The whole concept of man causing cycles in the earth's temperatures is ludicrous. The oceans are the giant thermal engine, and the cycles we are seeing now have been seen many times before, and will repeat again and again over time.

Those are all good points Roger, and true. Between expose' like you linked, the "climate gate" email fiasco of a couple years ago, this recent "confession" by one of the myth's masters, and a number of other revelations, it appears that the evidence to confirm what a lot of us have believed is mounting. That's not the same as us winning the argument, the "man made climate change" advocates have a lot to lose and aren't going down easily. There's a large cadre of koolaid drinkers that don't want to be embarassed by admitting buying into the bilking, the "scientists" that need the gravy train of funding to continue to justify their existence, and of course the politicians who've seized on the opportunity to tighten the power noose.

Abundant, reasonably priced energy is freedom for the common man (even though some don't realize it). It opens up a world of free choice options that flies in the face of being controlled by the power hungry. That's why you see the sycophantic left repeatedly attacking energy producers that aren't in the pocket of the power mad: oil, coal, being the primary targets. By pursuing inefficient forms of energy production, and hobling as they can the more efficient ones, they are gradually manuvering us to a position of having to beg them for "help" in maintaining the lifestyle we'd like to continue to enjoy. Meanwhile the politically connected continue to fly around in private jets, live in large homes (often multiple), travel with large entourages that has the result of expanding their energy footprint greatly, all the while chastising we underlings.

Like I said above, hopefully enough thinking people will recognize all the elements of the equation and pull the reins in on this silly movement. And, of course, let's deal with the false choice that's always proffered. To recognize and revolt against the stupidity of "man made climate change" is not to advocate for rampant polluting...........to say it's an either/or is dishonest as well. We can keep our environment reasonably clean and well managed without enslaving the general population.............but that takes legitimate compromise which the power hungry can't tolerate.

ALL IS LOST.
That's the bottom line. In my opinion, the attitude of the lawmakers and of the voters who put them in office bears no rememblance whatsoever to that of those folks when this country was formed. The system we're using will no longer work in the way it was intended to work because we have lost the integrity and the honor that was present in this country at the time of its formation. We have Congresspersons and Senators and other holders of office who line their pockets with money from this cause or that cause, at the expense of the taxpayers and I'm so sick of it that I could just puke.

There is little honesty, honor or integrity left in ANYONE in the world any more and I am of the opinion that it's getting close to time for our maker to shut the whole mess down and start over with a different species.

In this rant, I'm concentrating on Congress, not on the apathy, greed and ignorance of the voters as a whole. I'll rant later about those people.

I'll conclude with this story of the 5 monkeys. It explains why nothing gets done in Congress and why nothing will ever get done in Congress that goes against the mainstream of corruption and greed and why it will never change unless we clean out Congress every election and install ALL NEW monkeys.

THE FIVE MONKEYS

Begin with a cage containing five monkeys. In the cage, hang a banana on a string from the ceiling and put stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana.

As he gets part way up the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with cold water. After a while, another monkey will make an attempt with the same response -- all of the monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Keep this up for several days.

Turn off the cold water. As soon as another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will prevent it even though no cold water sprays on them.

Now, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and goes to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the other monkeys attack him and beat the snot out of him. After another attempt and another attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace itth a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm.

Replace the third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four monkeys that beat him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

After replacing the fourth and fifth original monkeys, all the monkeys which have been sprayed with cold water have been replaced. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs.

So it is with Congress. If we don't replace ALL the monkeys at one time, we'll just continue getting the same results that we're getting by replacing them one at a time.

Each time a new Congressman or Senator joins the ranks of the Washington elite, his/her do-gooder thoughts and ideas of how he or she is going to make a difference for the voters who sent him/her to Washington are quashed by the older, established Congressmen and Senators (the original monkeys). "Go along to get along" and "Don't rock the boat" is the advice laid on the new members. They are threatened that if they don't go along with established practices, then all the other monkeys will turn on them and they'll never get anything done for their constituents. All the new monkeys are advised that they should "go along to get along" by the seasoned monkeys who have been there for a while.

This is why we desparately need to replace all 435 monkeys November 6, 2012.

RE-ELECT NOBODY. THROW ALL THE MONKEYS OUT AND LET'S START WITH A FRESH BUNCH OF MONKEYS.