I love the big lights. they remind me of a coupe that my grandfather used to have sitting in his garage.
Z
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I love the big lights. they remind me of a coupe that my grandfather used to have sitting in his garage.
Z
Thanks, I like them too. Last night when I was mocking stuff up I mounted the headlight bar on top of the shock mounts and thought I might weld it on there. But it was too high and made the car look like a frog.:eek: :eek: :LOL: :LOL: . I think they will look ok tucked down low though.
I'm going to convert them to halogen, so there should be enough light, I hope.
Don
Man, the more and more I see your progress the more and more I just wanna buy a Speedway Motors T and build one cheap as well but I wouldn't have the knowledge to make all my own brackets and such like you I just don't know how or where to put them really. I have been looking into it but everyone says that in the end it's cheaper to get a complete steel T bucket. I can't find any steel T's here in SC or NC for under 4000 for a project, everyone want's 10,000- 25,000 here for them and they are complete pieces of junk. The 20,000 dollar ones are nice but not my style and the others that are priced WAY too high are pieces of junk with NOTHING like no grille, needs a new frame, body rusted, old short block 350, crappy rear end, etc. People here watch too much TV I think and see cars from the West coast all fixed up and nice and think that just because they have an old car that it's worth as much as the real nice one they saw on TV...
Ya know, I am really glad this thread has turned you on to wanting to build one too,. That was one of the reasons I wanted to do this thing, and why I keep posting all these little steps that I am doing, I wanted to show that anyone could build a basic, strong hot rod without a lot of money or even equipment.
Let's talk about me for a second. I am about as far from a professional rod builder as you can get. I am an old time rod builder who is capable of putting together a simple, straightforward rod that runs. Period. There is no way you can compare me to some of the guys on here, or who are out there. I see the work guys on here do, and I am in awe of how really good they are. I refer to my own Son a lot, and mainly it is because I have his creation sitting in our shop staring me in the face every night, and I see how much more sophisticated his car is than anything I could build, and how talented some people are in their vision of what a car can be.
I have learned a couple of lessons also during this project. The one is that I am a terrible welder, and welding is probably the biggest single talent that you need to build cars on your own. I have always tacked stuff and had a pro do the final welding, and now I use my kid to do that for me. But if I were able to produce a strong, pretty weld I could make so much more progress on my own. It is the one skill I am going to work at so that the next car has more of me in it in that respect.
You mention you would not know how to do the car, but that is something I would have hoped you would have picked up a little of from this project. Essentially, a rod is just a ladder frame with a front end, rear end, and motor and trans in the middle. Sure, it is more complicated than that, but there are some basics you have to follow and if you do that, the car will turn out fine.
As far as making brackets and the like, the one thing I have been trying to show is that common pieces of angle iron, flat steel, and tubing can be cut and rewelded into shapes that look nice and serve a purpose. Sure, we have a pretty well equipped shop now, but for years I worked out of my home single car or two car garage. I built my first roadster pickup in a rented garage that had a dirt floor. It was a crappy car, but it ran and stayed together.
There is no denying that the cost of building a car is climbing, and the rat rod craze has made all of the old stuff more expensive. Even I have gone over my original $ 3K estimate, but if I would have stuck to what I originally planned on doing I still think I could have come close. The secret is to start out with a cheap or free donor car for the major items, like engine , trans, and rear axle and shop wisely for the rest, and build everything you can yourself. Just today, Jose at work told me he knows a place where the guy tows in abandoned cars and will sell a whole car for $ 50 or $ 100. Even if you pay $ 500.00 for a running car that is maybe rusted out or hit in the rear, you are way ahead and have a cheap start on your rod.
Ebay is my source for almost all of the stuff I have on the car and parts I have stored for future projects. You have to pass up a lot of items on Ebay and wait and play the game to get the deals. As for bodies, every community or State has some old cars sitting around, and you just have to keep looking. We found my '39 Dodge cab in Georgia and also found my Son's '29 Fordor there. Each one was $ 900.00. He later found an almost mint Tudor '30 body about 600 miles from here for $ 1700.00. So they are out there.
After doing this project, I still think the absolutely very best way someone can get started in rodding is to buy a Speedway or Total Performance kit (OH OH, there's that K word :eek: ) and put a good running, but cheap small block chevy into it and learn how these things work. You can't beat the price of them, and you can buy them one piece at a time, as paydays allow. That is how I have always done it, one piece at a time on paydays where the rent and electric isn't due. I save up for the bigger purchases, and they take more time to get. Sure, a T bucket has some drawbacks, most notibly room inside, but there is no rod that dollar for dollar gives as much fun or is as easy to build. Every piece you need is available from many sources.
I also like to buy someones cast off project, because they never ever get what they have in them. You can save a lot of money, and sometimes all the hard work is done. You may have to redo some stuff to suit you, but if the basics are there, you can have a great start.
Don't give up, but just start simple and keep it that way for the first rod or first several rods. I like basic rods because I am not afraid to leave them sitting out in the rain, or to jump into them an drive across the State. There are lots of guys on here who will be only too happy to help you get the thing up and running.
Good luck, and thank you for following the project. I have been having a blast doing it and sharing.
Don
Don
You might want to add that these things can take a lot longer than antisapated. Things come up. Things go bad. It took me 5 years to build my 38. 2or 3 years on my 68 camaro. I had a 64 chevy seems like my hole life until about 2 years ago, all in different stages of repair. I had my 32 chevy 2 dr sedan for about 10 years never did finish it just got tired of it sold a big loss. Just glad to get garage space back. This is a fun hobby. I think you have to realy look deep into what you want and how you want it to be when finished. It's easy to look at a car that is finished and not see half what went into it. I realy don't think I could buy a car(hot rod) built by someone else and leave it alone. You have to personalize them and thats the fun in it.
Don thanks for letting me ramble on your post
Charlie
I would realy like to add that I enjoy following your build. I have this post so I get e-mail when a new post is added.
Don,
I also have followed this thread since it's start and look forward to each installment. I admire your straight forward approach and the common sense you use to tackle the small problems. You and Brian are truly masters of your craft.
Don, I have to go back from page one and re read this whole thread but so far I have learned a lot from you. I have a Ford 302 motor that will needrebuilt (it doesn't HAVE to but since it's out then I would have the machining done and bottom end put together and that's it) and have a 3 speed tranny out of my 66 F100 (which you did say something about not enough room for the clutch pedal so not sure). I also have a 57 Chevy rear end with 3:73 gears and old Cragar wheels as well. The centers of them are peeling chrome but the outer part of the ring is like brand new chrome. So I would have a motor (that really all it needs is head gaskets and a distributor now), tranny (if it can be used because of the clutch pedal), rear end, wheels and tires and a few other little things here and there. I was looking at the roadster body Speedway has, I think it's the 27 one? Not sure I like the back end of them though where it goes up like a T and then it has the turtle deck looking thing attatched. Are the roadster body 27's bigger inside than the T or no? I was trying to find pics of a 27 roadster glass body to see if I like it but don't see any.
Charlie, you NEVER ramble.:3dSMILE: You are one of the people I really enjoy gabbing with on here, and there are many others.
You are right on the mark on the time thing. The smallest things take so long to do, and the entire buiild can stretch out for years and years. My '27 took 6 years, mainly due to finding the old time parts I wanted to use, and money. I could handle the small purchases, but had to save up for things like my $ 700 headers, $ 600 grille insert, etc etc. I also got sick of working on it and would leave it alone for months at a time.
Even this simple little T project is not fun every night I go to the shop. Many nights I force myself to go there after work. Once I am in the swing of working on it, then it is ok, but getting started takes some effort sometimes. Like tonight. I could have gotten more done on it, but I had to take a break and come home after work and take a nap. Felt good to get away for the night.
You are so right that it is hard to look at someones car and imagine all of the work and time they have spent on it. These "reality" car shows have made it look like a car or motorcycle gets built in a week or some other short period of time like that. Anyone who has done one knows that is not the case. The other thing is money. Even a trip to the hardware store for a handful of bolts and nuts can be expensive, and you do that so many times when building or fixing up a car.
I really feel for a lot of the guys who post on here, because I have been where they are. They want to build and drive a cool rod, but have limited funds or equipment, or knowhow. What they don't realize is that building a car under those circumstances can be the sweetest of times because you are so excited about every little part you save up and buy or one that you make yourself. As we get older, our ability to spend more does increase, but some of the best times I ever had was years ago when I had to scrimp and save up for some chrome goodie (and hide the receipt from the wife :LOL: :LOL: )
And, please do jump in on this thread anytime you guys want with your own comments and pictures or whatever. It makes it so much more fun for me, and I have learned a lot from those contributions myself. It would be pretty boring to do this if it were only me posting. You all have made it fun.
Don
Thank you NTFDAY. Really nice of you to say that.
Don
one dif. in you and me don is once i get started i can't stop. not sure thats the best way though.**)Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Are the roadster body 27's bigger inside than the T or no? I was trying to find pics of a 27 roadster glass body to see if I like it but don't see any.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the '27 body is bigger in some areas than the '23. Mostly in foot room around the underside of the dash. I was able to squeeze 3 pedals into my '27, but no way could I do it on the '23. Part of that was due to the high mounting position of the '23 engine, but still it is tighter. Model A's even have more room, and '32's are roomier yet.
I will dig out some pictures of my '27 so you can see how they look. I'll do that tonight if I can find them.
Hey, by the way, you have perfect parts to start your own rod. Just dig up a C4 Ford tranny or AOD, and that Chevy rear end is perfect in width and all. Those are all perfect ingredients for a rod. The "patina" on the Cragars is IN right now.:3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:
Don
Here. These two pictures perfectly show the differences between the '23 and '27 bodies. The one on top is the '23 I am using for Project $ 3K, and the one on the bottom is my '27 that is now sitting with everything stripped off of it for a rebuild. (It's only been SIX YEARS !!!:o :o :o :o ) I stripped off the purple primer and will eventually paint if for the first time in it's life.
You can see the differences in the two bodies. Hope this helps.
Don
Quote:
Originally Posted by lt1s10
I wish I had the energy to keep going like that Mike. How are you feeling BTW?
Don
The 27 is pretty nice! I like both and would be very hard to make up my mind on which one to get. Wanna just sell me your 27 instead of having to rebuild it? hahaha You've got a nice shop and all as well.
Thanks. One night I was out having a few beers with my Sons, and Don, my one Son says to me "so Dad, when you die, which one of us gets your '27?" I told him "neither one of you, I'm being buried in it !!:D :D :D ) Funny part is, I wasn't kidding. Wouldn't that be a cool funeral. Pay your last respects to some guy propped up in the drivers seat. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :cool: :cool:
Don
FMX: Here are a couple more pictures of a '27. I borrowed these from the gallery of Jim Sibley, who is a member here. He does some nice stuff, and I love this T. Hope he doesn't mind me copying these.
Don
:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
I'd have to get one of those cool little hats and goggles like Faith has, and they could put my hand on the shifter.
You don't think this would be HOT RODS TO HELL, do you???:eek: :eek:
Don
Is the green one a glass or steel body? Looks like steel because of the doors and hinges. The door kits I have seen from speedway look like crap... At least the ones I have seen people install did, maybe they didn't do them right I don't know.
I think it is steel, based on what Jim seems to build a lot of. I didn't put doors in my '27 because I don't like the way some of them fit either in a glass body. My good friend had a T bucket when he was alive, and when I would ride in the passenger seat my arm would be pinched sometimes in the door gap as the body flexed going down the road.
I always said when I get too old to jump over the side I'd sell it.
Don
There is more room in a 27 than in a 23. They are lots wide enough for two 250 pound men to set in comfortably.(personal experience talking here)--The sad part is, that in a 27 T roadster there simply isn't enough room front to rear. It don't matter how you do it, you will run out of leg room. On the one I built, I cut 3" out of the daisy panel (thats the part between the rear of the cockpit and the front of the trunk opening), and it still was tight for leg room, and I'm only 5 foot seven tall. The doors are so friggin narrow that even if you cut and hinge them like I did, only your legs will pass thru the door, not your ass. This means that to climb into them you have to step up, stand on the doorsill, slide your legs thru the door opening, lean your ass against the top of the seat, then slide down into a seated position. The reverse of this for getting out, is like watching a snake slither backwards-----and there is no way to put a convertible top on them unless its a big high goofy one like the old T-buckets from the seventies. I have seen 27's with 3 pedals, but only if you run zero upholstery panels in the kick panel area.(how do you like that Duvall style windshield frame I built from $10 worth of scrap 1/8" plate)---Brian
Don,
I have enjoyed watching your build so far. Although I have "been there done that" more than a few times it's always interesting to see other people's ways of solving all the problems. I continue to learn constantly... Now that my coupe is about 98% done, I am collecting parts for my next project. I am planning a track-style / lakes modified style roadster, so that has made your posts even more interesting.
Brian,
How about some details on the windshield frame? I can fabricate the outside shape, but how do you make the inside so it will hold the glass? That's a nice 27! Was that before the roadster pickup or do you still have it too?
That roadster was built to celebrate my 50th birthday (at least it worked out that way) I sold it after about 5 years, then 3 years ago I started the roadster pickup, and finished it in time to celebrate my 59th. (I'm 60 now). I will do a post on "how to build a Duvall style windshield frame.
Like most things hot rod it depends on how/what you're doing. My '27 Track roadster had three pedals. At 6', 32" inseam, 200# (give or take:3dSMILE: ) size 10 1/2 shoe (narrower the better) I fit "okay", but not for any long haul, local cruise around stuff mostly. The pedals were floor mount (Tilton if I remember correctly), the steering wheel was 12", and the column slightly higher than I would normally mount one. No opening doors, just step over the side. Probably why it worked better than Brian's was I had a 2.3 Ford banger and 4 speed which likely allowed a smaller hump in the floor.
You guys are killing me with all these great looking '27's. Makes me want to finish rebuilding mine.:3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:
Yeah, footroom in the '27 is a little tight, but I also got 3 pedals in there. Maybe the small block Ford and toploader 3 speed combo was narrow enough to allow that.
Great idea Brian about the Duvall build thread. These have gotten popular again, and the ones you buy are a little pricey. I look forward to seeing you do that.
Jim, from the way you coupe looks, your modified will be dynomite. You build a nice, balanced design car, so I hope you do a thread on it when you start. I'm like you, I love to see other people's work in progress.
I thought you guys might like to see another modified that a guy posted on another forum (It's a forum I haven't been banned from :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: ) He is using 4 cylinder power, and is really doing a first rate job on it.
Here are some pictures I borrowed. I promise to put them right back.:rolleyes:
Don
You forgot the word YET!!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
Charlie had posted some early construction photos of his roadster on here 3-4 years ago, but they must have gotten lost in one of the server crashes as I couldn't find them anymore.
You forgot the word YET!!
What!! Do you know something I don't know????????:eek: :eek: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
He mentioned in that thread that he has made some changes and gotten it to the point where it is almost ready to run, so I guess this is an update on the posts you are mentioning, Bob. It would have been neat to see those early on pictures you were looking for.
I have been kicking around a tonneau cover like he is making so I can close up the car when parked, and I like the split way he did his. He does nice work.
Don
Yeah my 3 speed tranny out of the 66 is a pretty tiny unit so I think it would possibly work. I am small as heck though guys, and doubt I will get any bigger for a lot more years. I am about 5'5" and 110 pounds haha. Skinny as a twig but my feet are big and I have to have wide shoes as well. At work I have to sometimes drive a few old Vette stingrays and such and I have to take off my right shoe or else my foot gets stuck under the brake and wont fit between the pedals. Haha. I have too many projects right now (3 of them) so something like this wont happen for at least 2 years. I am going to get to work on the 48 in about 2 or 3 months and see what happens with that, I might end up selling it and if so then 27 roadster here I come!!! Ok sorry to take over your post Don.
Ok sorry to take over your post Don.
You didn't. All the questions and stuff you brought to the post really helps it. I'm very happy that you guys are participating in this thing and planning you next builds too.
I can't wait until there are a lot more of these posts on here, like the thread Brian is doing on the windshield, and Pat is doing on header fabrication. You couln't find this kind of info anywhere if it weren't for these forums.
Keep it coming.:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Don
I really didn't feel like getting knee deep in any serious work on the T today, I just wanted this weekend to chill out a little. I did want to do something, so I decided to finish off the headlight bar and get it mounted to the frame.
As I mentioned earlier, I like to use early Ford headlight bars and modify them to hold the headlights, rather than buy some of the accessory aluminum ones most people use. There are two reasons for me liking them. 1) They look old timey, and 2) The headlights don't shake going down the road like on some of the aluminum brackets. MY buddy had a T bucket with the aluminum mounts, and when he would follow me when we were out cruising his headlights were constantly shaking when he hit a bump. Not all of them do this, but enough that I don't like them.
As for the old timey aspect, back in the early '50's hot rodding was sort of in it's infancy, and there weren't many places to buy hot rod parts, so we made most of the stuff we used. I'm not sure who the first guy was to use a stock Ford headlight bar on a fenderless roadster, but it was a pretty smart idea.
Here is a picture of a stock model A headlight bar, uncut. The reason I like to use the '32 bar is that the shape is rounded on top, rather than straight across like the model A. Visually, the straight bar seems to sag when you look at it, whereas the '32, with it's rounded top, seems to flow better with the lines of the car. By the time I took this picture I had already cut up the '32 bar, so I am only posting this Model A bar for reference.
To make it work on a fenderless car, you simply cut off the ends of the bar, right outside the little pockets where the headlight bucket bolts on. They look like this when cut off.
To get this part to fit the flat frame topside where it gets mounted, you have to grind off the two bumps on the bottom, then heat the base with a torch and hammer it flat. If you don't so this, it is humped up in the middle when you mount it, and there will be a gap under the center.
Sometimes you can get away with leaving the middle portion of the bar as is, and the width will be fine (That is the way it is on my '27) but on this car, the bar was 5 inches too wide, and would have hit my steering arm, so I cut 5 inches out of the middle and welded it back together. Then I ground the weld smooth, and will finish it off with a little hi build primer to make it smooth.
Finally, I welded the cut off ends back on the center bar, but faced the ends to be in line with my frame ends. I cut a groove in the ends of the end pieces to make a tight joint before welding, and ground it all down when I was done.
I drilled and tapped four 3/8 holes into the top of the frame, and used some grade 8 bolts to fasten the bar to the frame. I know grade 8 is overkill, but I have a bunch of them, and I do like the strength factor, even if grade 5 would have been ok.
Here are some pictures of the finished product.
My computer just froze up on me.........hasn't done that for awhile.
Before I left tonight I got my steering box in place and ran a string between the pitman arm and the steering arm on the backing plate to see if anything was in the way. Nothing was, so now I can order my drag link from Speedway tonight on line. The one I need is 39.5 inches long, and they will custom make one to any length.
When that comes I should be able to turn the wheel and have the wheels turn too.:D :D :D :D :D :D Always a big step when you can steer a rolling car around the shop. Maybe I'm getting close after all.:D :D :D :D
Thanks for looking.
Don
Oh, just for the heck of it, I tried several different headlights on the bar to see what they would look like. I used a Guide light, a ''36 Ford light, and a Model A light. Turns out the only one that fits the look of this car are the big '27 Chevy's I have been using, so I guess that is what it will be.
o i can't do it now, but i used to be a nut about it. didn't want anybody talking to me while i was working. built that #22 modified race car in less then 30 days,mostly at nite and weekends. starting with a camero snout. didn't sleep much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Itoldyouso
i feel and can breath a little now, but i know its just a matter of time before i get like that again, so its hard to get involved with anything. i need an attitude adj. mostly.:eek:
My Son is exactly that way. If I say something to him while we are working in the shop it's like I broke his train of thought. He was there last night til 4 this AM, I think he likes that time alone without me bugging him and trying to carry on a conversation.
Me, I talk to myself and cuss the car out a lot.:D :D :D :D :D
Don
Say Don
I spent a few hours this AM with two of my grandkids picking pumpkins the youngests #1 B day. But after that in a warm shop I installed the windlace in the 53 so now I can get the headliner in. I just didn't want you to think you were the only one working on there car today. Seems you can't buy that stuff any more if you want it you make it or do without.
Looks like you'll be doing the headliner pretty soon then, huh? That's one job I really hate, don't have the patience to get all the wrinkles out. Guess that is why I build roadsters, no headliner.:D :D :D :D
Don
They aren't to bad I've never done a wagon before. I have all the bows in the liner so tomorrow when I get out there I think I'll start and see what happens. Right after I make a pot of coffee. With out that stuff I can't function in the morning.:LOL:
Mike: I'm sorry, I missed the second part of your post. Bummer about your health. You said you go through this periodically, and that must be tough, knowing it may reoccur. Keep the faith MIke, maybe it won't happen again or at least not for a long long time.
I wish you well bud.
Don