Jeez, Don, I go hospital for 5 days and come back to see so much progress I can't believe it. Looking great. :)
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Jeez, Don, I go hospital for 5 days and come back to see so much progress I can't believe it. Looking great. :)
Thanks, but don't go to THAT extreme again. I'll keep working anyway. :D
Don
Love the motor. The first thing that went through my mind was 312 Ford. It must just be the valve covers.
Thank you Richard. Yeah, I agree about the Y block look. You are right, the centerbolts disquise it a little, don't they? I'm glad Moon and Cal Custom came out with this style valve cover for the Vortecs, otherwise the engine would have looked too "new", I think. In person the color reminds me of old Oldsmobile too, so that may help age the car too.
When it's all done I am going to beat on it with a chain to distress it and get some patina going. :D :D (joke)
Don
No pics of the "Patina" treatment for me thanks, It would be like watching someone stomping puppies! There are only so many things that a man can bear!!
It is great to see your work Don. It made me feel the need to start getting the 52 out. Should be able to drive it soon. I need to find a radiator and it will be rolling again.
That's really cool Rick, glad to see you are so close to getting yours going. Show us some shots when you get a chance, would love to see them.
Brick, you know you have to get that first scratch on a new car to get it out of the way. :D
Got the drivers side wood all glassed in today and that was as much fun as I wanted to have. Besides, the shop was a disaster from all the cutting and sanding wood, so I spent some time and got it cleaned now that I shouldn't have too much more wood to cut and all.
I might make my self-imposed deadline of tomorrow night to have the wooding done yet. :cool:
Don
Don---In everything I have ever read about reinforcing fiberglass bodies with wood, It has said that if you fit the wood right up tight to the fiberglass, with no gap, it will create a "shadow" on the outside of the body when the body is finish painted with high gloss paint. Any time I have reinforced a body, as you are doing, I made sure to leave a 1/8" gap between the wood and the body, and glass in both sides of the wood to the body by using a 2" wide strip of mat, half onto the body and half onto the wood reinforcing on each side of the wood. I hope that what you are doing does not give this "shadow" effect that I have heard of. I will be interested to see how it turns out---Brian
Great question Brian, and one that I've wrestled with also. I have heard and read exactly the same things, and was careful to leave that gap when intalling the floor. The plywood is about that far away from the body. But for the stringers I had to put them up against the fiberglass outer shell as there was no way to stiffen the body or attach them without glassing them right to the shell.
I did put two to four layers of mat as a cushion between each stinger and the body, and wetted it out so it is bonding the wood to the glass. I did the same thing on my '27 and never got any shadowing. I went one step further on the '27 that I won't be doing on this one. I glassed an outer piece of 1/4 plywood to make an inner shell, and then poured in expandible foam between the two layers. The thinking was that it would make a rock solid body. I guess it worked, as the car never got any stress cracks, but in hindsight was overkill.
I think as long as I paint everything between the stringers with the black bed liner it should provide enough of a light screen that there should be no problems. At least I hope so.
Just don't know another way to do it, and even Total Performance, in their wooding kit, provide instructions how to bond pieces of wood to the interior of the body. (by the way, don't ever buy their wooding kit. I got one with the T bucket I bought a long time ago from some guy, and it is nothing but cheap, crooked firring strips. And they get big money for them.)
Yeah, I know this sort of contradicts that rule you and I have come to accept, but since most boat have wood glassed up tight against the hulls, and I have also done this on my '27, I think it will be ok.
Time will tell.
Don
Oh, BTW, I mentioned that I put expandible foam in the hollow sections of my '27 body. Funny story related to that.
If you have never seen this expandible foam, it is a two part epoxy that boat builders use to add floatation to their boats. You take a hollow cavity, mix up the two parts, and dump it into the cavity. As the name implys, it expands to like 3 times it's size and fills every little nook and cranny. I have always joked that you mix it up and RUN.
So, I took a little hole saw and punched a hole into the inner liner, dumped in some foam , replaced the wooden plug I had cut out, and glassed it back in place. Later on I told my Son about the great thing I had done, and he said, "you really better check, because that foam will expand and push your body out of shape."
I walked out into the garage, and the door area of the body was bowed out about an inch from the pressure of the foam expanding. This stuff was swelling my body outward. In a panic I took the holesaw and cut a few more holes, and all this pressure escaped, and the body luckily went back to it's original shape.
If he hadn't said that I would have had the fattest 1927 Ford in history.:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Live and learn.
Don
Great story Don and good save too! I know about the first scratch deal, I am going to be a nervous wreck for a while.
I was looking in a new "Old Dawg catalog" and they have a 27 lakes body in there with 2 opening doors, now that would be alot of fancy reinforcing wouldn't it? Whats the next step for you Don, start laying in the interior?
Don & Brian,
I have also read about the problem of "shadowing" or "read-out" whenever you wood the inside of a fiberglass body, particularly when attaching the floor. I have never actually seen it, however, even though I have painted seven different fiberglass bodied hotrods (3 of which were T-buckets). Either they (the owners) had already overcome the problem or it showed up quite sometime later. The only one of those seven cars that I know the whereabouts of is one of the T's that is still in the hands of its original builder and still wears the Candy Brick Red lacquer that I sprayed on it in 1979. It still shows no sign of "shadowing". I'm not saying it doesn't happen; I'm just saying that it apparently doesn't aways happen. Now we just need to figure out why it does / doesn't sometimes and we can take the proper steps to avoid the problem. I'll be going through this same process soon and I'd like to know.
By the way, can somebody tell me how to post a picture in these threads? I can put pics in my gallery OK, but when I click on the "insert image" icon here, it asks for a URL...? Huh?
J Robinson---Type in a "quick reply", then click on the radio button immediately under the "quick reply" window that says "go advanced". This will open your reply in a new window, and if you scroll down a bit you will see a radio button titled "manage attachments". Click on it, and that will open a window on which one of the options is "browse".--click on "browse, migrate to where the picture is filed, and double click on it---wait a second, and the name of that file will appear at the bottom of the window---then click on "upload file".
Brick, Yeah, I have always resisted the temptation to put an opening door in my rods because of two things. First of all the extra work to get the jams and all right, and secondly, my buddy had a T bucket with a passenger side opening door. When you would hit a bump the gap would close up and pinch your arm that was resting on the door. I don't know if it was just improper bracing on his or what, but that made me decide that I and my lady would climb over the sides. :3dSMILE: (that's the acid test for me, if she climbs over and doesn't complain, she's a keeper :p )
As for my next step, today I got as far as finishing up the passenger side too, so all I have to do now is the backrest portion. I decided to let the glass get real cured so I left it for tonight. Then I can start on my tunnel. That is going to be a challenge, and I have some thinking to do on what I am going to do exactly there.
After that is done the body will get put aside and I will begin getting the frame ready for paint. (some final little welding tasks and sandblasting first)
Jim. I have to agree with you. As many fiberglass cars as I have seen, none have exhibited this problem, so maybe my concerns are unfounded. If worst comes to worst, I will just panel paint the car like they did in the '70's and lay some lace patterns all over it. :eek: :eek: Second thought, no I won't. :3dSMILE:
I will close out this post because I never know when this stupid computer will freeze up and I lose everything I have written, but I will log back on and tell you how to get pictures on here.
BTW, here are some shots of how I braced the stringers until they cured. Sometimes you do what you gotta do.
Don
Ok, Jim.......to post pictures, here is what I do.
First, after you have written whatever you want to say, like usual, go to the box at the bottom of that section that says "manage attachments." Left click on it.
Another screen will come up, left click on "brouse." Another screen will come up and you can pick the spot where you store your pictures. I keep mine in "my documents." Left click on whatever one you keep your pictures in.
Now select the picture you want by right clicking on it. You can also RIGHT click on it and hit preview to make sure that is the one you want to use. Once you have the picture you want, the name of it should show up in the "file name box on that screen. Left click on "open." You will return to the screen that says brouse on it, but left click on upload. That picture will now be on the thread you are posting on.
If that is the only picture you want, go to submit and your words and picture should be posted.
If you want to post up to 5 pictures, simply click on "brouse" after you upload a picture and go through all the steps again.
There may be easier ways to do it, but I am no computer genius, so I do what works for me. Hope this helps you out.
Don
Sorry Brian, you and I were typing at the same time. Didn't realize you were doing the picture download help thing too.
:LOL:Don---When I built my glass 27T, I framed, cut, hinged and latched both doors---definately not for the faint of heart. They worked fine, and I never had problems with the dreaded "arm pinch from Hell". I had to do this, because even with a 6" channel, that car was high. I am descended from a long line of short fat people, and if I hadn't cut those doors, I would have had to mold in a ladder on both sides of the car. Even as it was, I had to step up onto the track bar ahead of each rear fender, slide my legs in thru the really narrow door, make sure and swing my fat butt in above the door opening, and then kind of "slither" my way down into the seat (which damn near sat on the floor).---Getting out of it required a "reverse slither" to go from the seated position into the upright position to get back out of the damn thing. It was really comfortable once I got setting down in it, but I had to develop a lot of contortionist moves to get in and out.:LOL: :LOL: ---Brian
You mean you didn't do the "Dukes of Hazzard" jump over the side? :D Evidently with good construction the doors can be made to work well, as you have described. It was just more work than I wanted to do, plus this car is lower than a snakes belly, so I can step right over the body to enter.
BTW, that was a pretty little '27 you built. I've seen pictures of it before, and always liked the way you did it.
Don
Don,
Did you glass the stringers directly to the body? Have you ever seen "shadows" form in the glass so that the ribs show from the outside? I've heard of that happening because of the different expansion rates between glass and wood.
Don
Glad I read your post about the expanding foam!:LOL: I was actually considering doing that. Might have to rethink that.
And you're right about doors in buckets. The body I have came with a door opening. It's pretty floppy on that side. I'm going to add some wood and metal braces, although the company that makes these doesn't think it's needed. They rely on the boxing effect the interior section creates to stiffen the structure.
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
Yeah, we were just talking about that very subject. I don't think it will be a problem as I put a thick layer of mat under each one, plus I am going to use a very black bed truck liner liquid on the entire interior surface of the body, then seal it in with the upholstery board.
The only thing that I can see causing shadows would be the density of the wood vs the areas where there is no wood, so if I paint it all black, no light should be able to come through. I also am going to put bright halogen worklights on the inside of the body after I do that painting to see if any shadowing or lighted areas show up. If I have to do multiple coats of the truck bed liner, I will.
I did this same thing to my '27, and no shadows, and some others have mentioned they have never seen one do it, so hopefully I will be ok. If not, there is always flat black paint, and I will make it a rat truck. :D
Don
I take back every good thing I said about fiberglassing........it's a pain in the neck......and back.......and legs.:p :p From bending over the body as much as I have, every muscle is killing me and I am as stiff as a 100 year old. BUT, for all practical purposes, the interior is finally all done. The only thing left is to do the transmission and driveshaft tunnel, and a couple of seat risers, and I can set this body aside for a while until body work begins.
For the past week or so, every picture I have posted looks just like every other one, but I am making progress, honest. :D Today I got the backrest and all of the side stringers done, and installed some small wood blocks at the base of the sides so that I can use short screws to fasten the upholstery board down.
Here are the pictures of where that all ended up. I decided to call it quits and let the resin cure overnight so that I can cut out the center of the floor tomorrow and start on the tunnel.
I will say one thing........this body is rock solid. And heavy.
In the picture with the black bed liner painted in, I had to do that section now because the backrest plywood is now permanently glassed in place and I will never be able to get back inside there to do it.
Don
Alot of work for things that will never be seen huh? Peace of mind is hard to put a price on. Really looking good, now the tunnel, that snot going to leave alot of room in there is it?
No, it's going to be a little tight, especially in the gas pedal area, but I have picked up more room in the seat area since I narrowed the tunnel. I also am going to put about a three inch riser under the seat that moves my hips up into the wider part of the body, so I picked up some unexpected room there. Originally I was going to just put an upholstered pad on the floor, but the riser will still let me sit deep in the car and yet give me a more comfortable sitting position. My knees can now bend a little more because of the higher seat.
The riser is giving me one other thing to think about. On my '27 I have all the switches except the ignition switch in the seat riser. I actually liked it there, but didn't think I would have room on this T. Now, however, I will have room to put the switches there, so I can simplify the underdash wiring. I have been worried how I was going to connect all that stuff with the limited space under the '23 dash, so this would move most of the wiring to the underseat area, where it is easy to get at. I'll have to take a closer look at that idea.
Don
Looking good, you are going to have to go back to work, so you can get some rest :LOL:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Thurm
Thanks Ken, or back to work to get some MONEY !! :LOL: :LOL: Good thing I don't plan on living forever, because I'm spending it all right now.:rolleyes:
But at least I'll have a hot rod to drive to the poorhouse. :cool:
Don
Poorhouse are you coming over to visit Don. Your more then welcome you know but bring the T , I want a ride..
Thanks for the offer. I'll be one of those guys you see with a sign "will work for HI TEST." :LOL: :LOL:
I saw a funny one this year at Turkey Run in Daytona. (Daytona has a huge homeless people population) Guy was sitting on curb with a sign and it read......." I won't lie, need BEER." Guess he believes in truth in advertising. :D
Well, guess it's time to go do some tunnel work.
Don
MY PLAN IS TO BOUNCE MY CHECK TO THE MORTUARY :3dSMILE:
Nice build Brian, are you planning on building anything else in the near future?Quote:
Originally Posted by brianrupnow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Thurm
I like your style Ken. :D :D Better watch they don't come and dig you back up though. :eek:
Just got home from the shop, and got quite a bit done on the tunnel today. First thing I did was cut out the driveshaft area and install the steel hoops I had built previously. IT ACTUALLY FIT, as if it was planned or something.:rolleyes: That is kind of a first. I bolted it to the floorboard, and eventually will weld it to the frame so it is part of the frame as opposed to being part of the body.
Then I started figuring out how I am going to do the transmission portion of the tunnel. First thing I did was define the shape it needed to be with 1/8 inch round rods. This began to show me what I needed to make the tunnel like to clear all the 350 turbo bumps and also leave room for the shift rod to move back and forth.
From that I went out and got a couple of 8 foot pieces of 1/8 x 1 inch aluminum strips which I shaped into a bunch of hoops to go over the top of the transmission and follow the outline of it. I screwed each one to the top of the floor to hold it in place. After I made and installed a bunch of them I ran some tape over them to give me an idea of what the finished tunnel will look like. Fortunately, I am getting more room than I anticipated. The hump doesn't take up as much room as I feared, and there is actually more room in the gas pedal area than I thought there would be.
Now, the plan is to build a male mold using the aluminum hoops only to give me a pattern to make a bunch of plywood pieces in the exact shape of each hoop. Then I am going to build a male mold by joining them all together, and covering the entire affair with some stretchable fabric. On top of that I can lay up many layers of glass mat until it is stiff enough, and then the male mold will be removed, leaving just the fiberglass tunnel. Those fancy stereo boxes you see them putting in cars to hold speakers are built in this manner, and my kid has some experience doing those, so I am going to pick his brain a little.
Here are some shots of what went on today.
Don
You can only post 5 pictures, so here are the rest. These two pictures show masking tape I put over the hoops to give me a visual of what the final tunnel will look like.
Don
Don didnt youre mom ever tell you not to waste all the tape!
Well, at least I refrained from using the good blue or green stuff. :D :D
Don
Don---I would never try and dissuade you from doing lots and lots a' work, but why not just lay some more tape over whats allready there and just lay up 3 or 4 layers of mat over that???---Brian
Ken Thurm---Nah, I'm letting Don be the "buildmeister" for now. I build a hotrod about every 10 years, and since I built the yellow roadster pickup 3 years ago, I should be good for another 7---and then I'll be 67, and too old to build another anyways. I built that 27 T about 11 years ago. I don't really have good garage facilities where I live now, and even though I built the roadster pickup here, I layed awake till 3:00 every morning for a year, afraid I might have set the garage on fire welding---and the garage is under the front bedrooms.----really---I doubt that I will build another hotrod in this lifetime.---Brian
Yeah, Dan actually made the same comment about just going over the aluminum, but I think it would come out too bumpy. Plus, I have never built one of those molds you see where they cut pieces of plywood, put them every so often, and join them together with slats of wood. I have seen entire cars built this way, and want to see how it is done. So it is kind of an experiment too. Somewhere down the road I would like to build a one off, fiberglass sportscar body, and this might be good practice.
Don
That thing Looks hugh in there!!! I know that you have hugged the tranny as close as you dare but How much room do your feet actually have? I guess that a big guy don't have a chance fitting in one of these huh?
Good thing I used to be a ballerina, huh?? :eek: Not as bad as I thought it might end up, but I will have to wear regular tennis shoes instead of the wider one I usually wear. By keeping the door upholstery thin I should be ok, but it will be left foot brake, right foot gas for sure. Good thing I normally drive this way, a throwback to streetracing days. :D
Don
Don.
Looks great.
Remember the lost foam technique I told you about previously?
Well you are essentially doing the exact thing using the plywood.
My suggestion is get some 1" or 2" foam sheets from the local lunber yard used for insulation (they are usually 4X8')
Cut them down as you would the plywood mentioned earlier.
Bond them together with 2-sided carpet tape and shape to your desired contour, now you have your mold.
Glass over the mold.
After the glass has set, invert the body and gouge out the foam (no parting agent needed). Whatever foam remains, wash out (dissolve) with Acetone or Laquer Thinner.
Wa-lah!!! You're done. But with 1/2 effort and time !!!
Don
Your hump is looking good! WAY more elaborate than what I did.
Have you thought of adding a sloped toe board? The interior insert that came with my body has one and it makes a big difference in foot room. I can post a pic tommorrow if your curious.
You are right about glassing over the covering being rough. I made ribs out of 1" lumber and covered it with thin aluminum roof flashing. I then glassed over that. The glass didn't stick to the aluminum and it was easy to remove from the bottom. The top surface will need some more finishing.
Didn't mean to hijack your post.
Mike