Project $ 3 K Is Underway

Well, I already have the new electric carving knife I went out and bought the other day, so a little tin foil and I'm all ready for the Thanksgiving turkey. :D


With my luck Brian, there would be this one tiny hole in the foil and resin would somehow find it's way down into the foam. Wish I would have had a video camera to take a movie of the foam shrinking up. It would have had to be without sound though, because you would have had to bleep out all of my little comments. To say the least, I was a little shocked. :eek: :eek:


Well, can't put this off any longer, time to head to the shop and try this again.


Don

If you buy the bags of drywall mud and mix it yourself, you can get it to dry quicker, they sell 10 minute mud and 45 minute mud, the 45 sets up fairly quick, the 10 on the other hand sets up in less than five so work fast, but it is good for large spots that you need to pack mud in, but dont want it to crack like the premixed stuff will, cause it sets up to fast to crack

Plaster of Paris is usually available in craft stores. It is a powder that you mix with water. It hardens very quickly (10 - 15 min.) and can be shaped with a bondo file, wood rasp, grinder, sandpaper, etc. The problem with it is the dust. If you've ever sanded the spackling on drywall, you know the dust goes everywhere and coats everything with fine white dust - same thing. It's hazardous to your lungs and a mess to clean up. Unless you are making a buck for a permanent mold, it ain't worth the trouble...

Good luck with the second attempt.

Plaster of Paris is usually available in craft stores. It is a powder that you mix with water. It hardens very quickly (10 - 15 min.) and can be shaped with a bondo file, wood rasp, grinder, sandpaper, etc. The problem with it is the dust. If you've ever sanded the spackling on drywall, you know the dust goes everywhere and coats everything with fine white dust - same thing. It's hazardous to your lungs and a mess to clean up. Unless you are making a buck for a permanent mold, it ain't worth the trouble...

Good luck with the second attempt.

Thanks John and Jim for the suggestions, I just got in and read them. A little late though, because I already bought the premixed drywall mud and used it today.

On the way to the shop it occurred to me that there was no reason to scrap the foam base that is there. It is not going to shrink any more, and it has all these sharp resin points all over it, making it perfect to hold some of the drywall mud on top of it. So, I went to Home Depot and got 5 gallons of it ($ 5 for one gallon or $ 10 for five gallons.......a no brainer) Good thing I did, becuase I used about half of it already and will have some touching up to do before it is over.

I got the initial top coating on and it went pretty well. No doubt it will take a while to dry, but that is ok, I am in no hurry. I have lots of other things on the car to keep me busy, and I am going to make sure it is rock hard before I go on. One good thing about Florida is that it won't take long for the heat to dry it. It was almost 90 in the shop today.

Here are some shots of how it covered the foam.


Don

Don,

Are you going to put some type of mould release on the plaster so it will come out of the 'glass? Drywall mud is porous, and the 'glass resin could sink into it.

Yep Jack, I'm gonna grease the heck out of it. :D Brian suggested Johnsons paste wax and I saw some mold release liquid at the marine supplier where I bought the resin. It was pricey, so I think a few coats of wax will work.

In any event, I am going to let this stuff dry rock hard. I have enough little jobs to do to keep me busy while it drys, like painting the transmission, etc. Today I worked on my taillights. I bought some '32 Ford taillights for it, and want them mounted a little high so that some of the senior citizens driving around down here in Florida have a chance of seeing them.:eek: :eek: I made up a temporary mount to see if it was what I wanted, and it seems fine, so tomorrow I will make up the same shape in 3/16 steel and weld them to the frame.

I also figured out how I am going to do my license plate and light. I have been saving an old, original Hollywood light for a special car, and this is that car. I am also going to transfer the personalized plate off of the '27. I figure the wording is appropriate for this car too.

Don

Don foam came in handy so no wasted work i see. I do Hobby H.O trains and when i would latex rubber a rock for scenery i used soapy water for a release agent worked well for that application. Then plaster in side mold same way to transfer reverse image .

Bob,

Then, you're an old hand with Hydrocal . . .

It's nice to see another ferroequinologist among the hot rod bunch.

Oh oh, now we have trouble. Those ferroequinologists can be a rowdy bunch sometimes. :eek: :eek: :LOL:


Don

Don,

Love what you are doing. I have always used the pink dense insulation foam. I would glue it together with 3M spray adheasive, keep it away from the edges that you will be removing. I then used a thin coat of plaster and alot of release.

From experience masking tape doesn't protect the foam. I really like using the foam you can just the right shape.

I can't wait for your next update.

Z

Well thank you. Everybody in the world uses foam and it works, what the heck is wrong with me? :confused: :confused: I really liked the concept and it would have probably done great if I could have kept that resin away.

I feel bad, because I know everybody was really trying to help me out on this one too. Oh well, maybe next time.

Don

Henry dont know about the Ferro thing but i do really enjoy trains LOL . I also would mix a drywall compound with plaster of paris (budget at the time) . Its boxed up and waiting on retirement now. LOL first house i sold new owner said you are going to remove that aren't you . It was mountains going up wall 3 1/2 feet .

Don if i were to try glass i would use the foam for ease of cutting versus wood . I think i would test a barrier now though before continueing . But your work on foam was great and plaster will give you the smooth under side .

Don as I was catching up with this post I see you have a cart you were going to make into a engine stand, might I suggest you weld supports on the cart for your frame jig. That way you don't have to carry it around when you need it and get's it off the floor.
Brad

Yeah, that's an idea. Darned jig weighs like 300 lbs, so we just stand it on end and lash it to my '39 Dodge so it won't fall over. It stands pretty well that way, but it would make it more convenient to be able to wheel it to where you are working,l rather than drag it like we do now. Thanks for the suggestion.


BTW, got my transmission painted today, it won't win any trophies, but it is at least painted. Jackson Racing Transmissions uses this goofy silver paint on all their transmissions, so I had to remove it all down to bare aluminum before I could prime and paint it. Took me about 6 hours with a wire wheel, sander, die grinder, those rice cake sanding pads we were just discussing, and finally some 80 grit and 100 grit sandpaper.

I wasn't looking for show quality because only about two inches show of the bellhousing at the firewall, but I didn't want it to be silver either. So now it is the same orange as the engine. I would call it a 20 footer, but what the hey, it's a transmission.

The tunnel mold is drying pretty well. Some cracking in it, but I expected that because of the thickness of the drywall compound in some places, but nothing I can't touch up when it is all dry and I do the final smoothing.

Forgot my camera today, but nothing interesting to shoot anyway.

Don

I used my jig as a welding table by throwing 1/4 inch plate on top of it, then clamping it down. Wish I still had it today. Was great for mocking thing up, even if I screwed up and welded them to the plate.
Brad

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Well thank you. Everybody in the world uses foam and it works, what the heck is wrong with me? :confused: :confused: I really liked the concept and it would have probably done great if I could have kept that resin away.

I feel bad, because I know everybody was really trying to help me out on this one too. Oh well, maybe next time.

Don

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Don, We just want to pay you back for all the help that you have provided us with this thread.

Thanks,
Z

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oddcarout

Don, We just want to pay you back for all the help that you have provided us with this thread.

Thanks,
Z

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And I sincerely thank every person who has contributed suggestions or just stopped by to look at it or shoot the breeze. Their contributions have made this thread a whole lot of fun for me to do, and have kept me moving. :) :)

Thanks to all.


Don

I was anxious to get to the shop today to see how the transmission looked now that it had dried overnight. I thought it looked like a 20 footer yesterday but I was wrong...........it was a 50 footer.:( It really turned out rough, and no matter how I tried to pacify myself by saving "it's only a transmission" it was really eating at me. I just hadn't spent enough time prepping it for paint, and all the bumps and bruises were showing big time.

I got away from it and decided to build my taillight brackets, and after a couple of hours had them all done, but the transmission kept staring at me. So I then put some more plaster on top of the tunnel because it is cracking as it was drying. A thin coat seemed to fill in the cracks, and I will let that dry for a few days before I do anything else to it.

Finally, I couldn't take the transmission any more, so I spent the next 6 hours sanding it completely with 220 grit and then a scuff pad. Took pretty much all the orange paint off, and luckily I had put 3 heavy coats of primer on it, so I was able to smooth it out really well. In fact, now it looks like it is molded.

I threw on another coat of primer and will scuff and paint it orange tomorrow. I think I finally have it ok to paint. I know it will never be seen, but I would know it was there.

Here are some pictures of the tunnel cracks, the second coat of plaster, my taillights and brackets, and the primered transmission. I'm ready for the witness protection program........I have NO FINGERPRINTS left from sanding all day. :D


Don

Gee, Don, that transmission is looking so smooth maybe you should just scrap the tunnel and let that baby show! Seriously, though, nice work. Nice job on the taillight brackets, too.

By the way, what's a good size for pictures for posting?

Thanks Jim. It still has the typical cast aluminum bumps and flaws, but it sure is gonna be better than what it was this morning. It was so bad I didn't even take a picture of it.

Something is screwing up in my spray gun or I am getting some oil from the compressor. There were little black dots all through the orange paint, and I'm not sure what was going on there. I am going to pick up another gravity feed gun tomorrow and also put one of those little filters on the line and see what happens.

Our old compressor was so worn out it was pumping oil into the tank, but I didn't get any oil when I painted the engine, so I'm a little stumped. Can't be the new compressor, I hope.

Don

Don---that first tranny tunnel picture looks like something out of Al Gore's climate change documentry:LOL: :LOL: Really, its going to look great. There are probably better plasters to go with, but I use the premixed drywall mud because it is cheap and readily available. I'm sure you will be pleased with the end results.---speaking of "paint adventures"----When I cleaned up (I can't say rebuilt) the engine and transmission for the roadster pickup, I wanted to paint it the finish colour that the car was going to be, so I went into town and bought 2 quarts of yellow paint, and all the appropriate reducers, hardeners, etcetera. Now, based on my experience painting about a thousand cars in the sixties and seventies, and early eighties, 2 quarts of paint should have been enough to damn near paint a whole car. I cleaned and sanded --and sanded---and sanded--the engine and transmission till it looked reasonable, set it up on a stand, and proceeded to paint.---one coat--then a second coat--then a third coat--then a fourth coat---then a fifth coat---. I didn't know that that particular yellow was a tri-stage, extrememly transparent paint, that needed a white underbase. I ended up using the whole two quarts, and could still see through it. ---ya live--ya learn!!!**) **)

Quote:

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I have NO FINGERPRINTS left from sanding all day.

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A couple of months ago, my DoD ID card had an error (they have a chip imbedded), and I had to get it reset. I had spent all weekend sanding on my fibreglass '34 grille shell, and the sensor couldn't read the fingerprints on my right hand. Luckily, the left hand wasn't sanded smooth. It took a while, but they finally were able to read a print.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluestang67

Henry dont know about the Ferro thing but i do really enjoy trains LOL.

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Ferro = Iron
Equin = Horse
Ologist = Scientist or practitioner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

A couple of months ago, my DoD ID card had an error (they have a chip imbedded), and I had to get it reset. I had spent all weekend sanding on my fibreglass '34 grille shell, and the sensor couldn't read the fingerprints on my right hand. Luckily, the left hand wasn't sanded smooth. It took a while, but they finally were able to read a print.

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That's funny. I felt like I had very smooth fingertips when I got done, so I guess from what you said it is possible.



Brian..........Yellow would be one of those colors that would not cover in one or two coats now that you mention it. I have noticed sort of the same thing with the orange, it takes a few to get an even color and cover.




I wonder how long it took those guys that built that tunnel under the English Channel? Whatever it was, I think they built it faster than I got mine done, but I am pleased to say tonight THE TUNNEL IS DONE. :D :D

Today Dan had off work, and he went to the shop to do some things to his car, but he came over and looked at the plaster tunnel and said "let's get this thing done." I didn't want to take his only day off, but he insisted, so we dug in.

First thing we did was sand and shape the plaster with some drywall screens and sandpaper until it was as smooth as we wanted. Then we went to Home Depot to see what we could find to put some kind of barrier on top so I wouldn't have a repeat of the last problem. What we came up with was some red plastic tape that is like duct tape, but is very sticky. They call it Stucco tape.

In any event, we laid up a couple of layers of it onto the plaster mold, and it stuck like glue. After a little trimming we were ready to start glassing, but I was down to half a gallon of resin (from two gallons !) so Dan went to Home Depot and picked up another gallon. It was $ 36 there, compared to about $20 at the marine supplier, but we needed it.

We started glassing at about 6:30 and got done at 10, with two of us working side by side. I couldn't have done it, or done as good of a job if it wasn't for his help. He actually did the majority of the work, like taping and all, so he was really a Godsend. We laid up at least 3 full layers, and probably as many as 5 in some spots because we overlapped everything, so it will be pretty strong, I think.

When it cures I am going to turn the body over and get the foam and plaster out of there, clean up the underside, and put another layer or two on the bottom side to tie it into the floor completely.

Right now I am itching a little, and the cold shower only helped a little, but I feel great. The tunnel was a huge obstacle for me in this build, and it took that slavedriver Dan to get me in gear and get it done. Thanks Pal.

Here are some pictures of the taped up tunnel and after the glass was laid up.


Don

That looks GOOD Don.

Thanks MIke. Dan just got home from the shop and says it is kicking nice and hard already, so by tomorrow it should be all cured.

You have no idea how happy I am to get this phase done. :D :D

Don

Don sons are a godsend i wish i had a dozen as long as i didnt have to feed them. Great work well that hurdle ( or hump ) is over and on to the next one soon . From following this i dont ever think i'll waver from steel .

Don big question after a job like this is done do you seal , paint or just cover in carpet .

Henry i did have to look it up .LOL and i still love model trains by the time i retire i will cover one complete bedroom in a layout .

Not to hijack the thread (like THAT ever happens :LOL: ), but guess whose UP locos were on the cover of RMC back in the day? I wrote an article and sent the photos. They put my stuff on the cover, and paid me a couple of hundred $$$ for the article. It took several hundred hours to get 'em right.

Don,

- back to hot rods . . . .

Nice job on the tunnel. I had to do a bit of work like that myself. If I had it to do over again, I would have sawed out the Gibbon tunnel on my '34 and built one of my own. It certainly would have been better than theirs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Don,

- back to hot rods . . . .

Nice job on the tunnel. I had to do a bit of work like that myself. If I had it to do over again, I would have sawed out the Gibbon tunnel on my '34 and built one of my own. It certainly would have been better than theirs.

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I remember that you were having problems with not enough clearance for the cooling lines, or something like that. Sometimes something that starts off a such a little job ends up being a big one.

Bob, I made that same comment yesterday as we were a few hours into bending over and applying glass...........steel has some advantages. Everybody thinks fiberglass is this model car that you just whip into shape in a weekend and you are ready to go. Anyone who has done one will tell you there is lots of work to get it the way you want it, and Jack is a perfect example........he was putting in long hours getting his right.

The other thing about doing fiberglassing is that you have to keep moving and can't stop. If you take a break the resin isn't waiting for anyone, and it starts kicking on you. Dan and I both were moving like 90 year olds when we got done last night (don't feel much different this morning :( ) because for a solid 3 hours we were bent over the car and no matter how the muscles ached, we had to keep going. But that part is done now and some Aleve will take care of the hurts.

You also asked about what gets done to the surface now. Once I remove the mold I will sand it and lay up one more layer of glass on the inside, over the entire floor. This is simply to waterproof it. That will be it. The padding and carpet will go down right over that.

BTW Jack, I bet trains are another hobby that can suck up some money. I know a guy who converted a big room in his house to a train room, and it has this elaborate layout and glass cases built into the walls to hold the rarer ones. Hobby's can be expensive no matter what they are, I guess.

Don

The tunnel looks great!! Very nice work.

Mike

Don even i have a spare pack of Advil around . Getting up and down off floor is a kick . Well i will say you and Dan did some fine work . The tunnel looks perfect in shape and size for the T .


Jack great article in water falls in this one . Ok as Jack said all Hot Rod

Thanks guys, no question, this is one huge tunnel, but when I decided to put this T low I created some issues. Sharing the cockpit with the turbo 350 is one of them.

Don

Don i noticed the bell on the auto's are very large as to a stick shift. This is because of size of converter i guess. I'm seeing possibly a smaller hump in the A with the stick . Did it work out like that on the 27 for you the same way .

Looking good Don---Henry---speaking of trains---When I was a kid, about 1955, Canadian National Railways still ran steam locomotives thru a nearby village, Detlor, which was about 3 miles from where I lived. The old stationmaster, Herman Shneider lived in the station, which at that time had the station office in the front part, and the stationmasters living quarters in the back half. when CNR closed the station, old Herman boutht it from them, and continued to live there with his wife. Herman was a real model train nut, and he converted the 3 rooms which used to be for station business into a giant model train set. I can remember going to his house when I was about 11 years old, and being fascinated by his trains----he had everything built to scale, and there were "tunnels" cut thru the walls---the trains would exit out of the room you were in, ans you could hear it whistle at the crossings in the other rooms. It was like magic to a young boy. I don't remember now if Hermans trains were electric or steam, or a combination of both. Sadly, the station burned down when iwas about 15, and Hermans trains as well.---Brian

Hi Don, was just sitting here looking back at the progress of your project and it got me to thinking about building in general.

If we knew EXACTLY what we were going to do when we start a project.....taking out all the time for figuring out deatils and the mis-steps when something that sounds like a good idea doesn't pan out we would likely be able to built these in about 2/3 the time it usually takes us and likely save 10-15% of the cost of the project.

One of the things that really makes this thread so good is watching the thought process of working around/thru problems. I guess that is maybe a big part of what makes a "real hot rodder" (whatever that is ;) ), not building cookie cutter cars......the challenge of building something different than the last time and trying new things.

I'm really looking forwad to see what happens next.

Thanks alot guys. You're right Mike, there are always some "oops" along the way in building a car. Usually though it is some stronger term than oops. :3dSMILE:

Bob, yes the stick bellhousing seems to drop down quicker and the box itself is generally smaller than the automatics. If I could have gone with the original 3 speed I wanted I would have had more foot room, but just not enough for that third pedal. You asked about the '27 hump. It ended up being just a very small one about 3 inches high at the front and tapering back to nothing because the car sat at pretty normal height, so the tranny was under the floor pretty much. I only had to build the tunnel to cover the top edge of the bellhousing and a little of the top of the transmission. On that one I just laid up some thick posterboard, coated it with resin to give it some firmness, and laid up glass over the top of that. Much easier than this thing.

Don

Don thats what i was thinking . I'm not seeing much of a hump here . I did set the engine back a bit but where the floor drops at a angle not much trans in the way .

From your pictures it looks like all will tuck under the floor pretty well, with maybe just a hump near the firewall.......you lucky dog. :D :D


I have to say something here about the suggestions all of you made with respect to how to do the mold for the tunnel. They were all excellent, and I have to thank Supa Roosta, Ken Thurm, Brian, Jim, and all the others for the ideas.

It turns out the best solution for me was a combination of all of the ideas. The foam provided an easy to carve base, and the plaster was a great topping for it. The tape we used to protect the plaster was another good item, as I found out today when I stripped out the mold from the tunnel.

I didn't know what to expect today when I got to the shop, but was really happy to see that the fiberglass had cured into a better tunnel than I hoped for. It was really very smooth, and flowed into the car nicely. But I got the best surprise when I started digging out the mold, because it came out much easier than I hoped it would.

The foam was very easy to break up and dig out, and the plaster was so thick that it was still soft in most places. Once the foam was gone, the goo that was left just came right out with a putty knife, leaving only the red tape stuck to the fiberglass. When I started to pull the tape off, it came right off of the fiberglass, as if the resin just sat on top of it. I have no idea what that stucco tape is, but it is evidently too slippery for resin to bite in.

I had the whole mold removed in about an hour, and the underside is actually smoother than the topside, because of being laid against smooth tape. I slid the transmission back in, and found one area where I screwed up, but not too badly. There is a little interferance right where the top of the tranny enters the tunnel, but this is an easy fix, and I will modify that tomorrow. When I flip the body I will cut away and round the excess plywood so that is flairs right into the underside so the glass I put there makes a nice transition. I may even use some Tiger Hair filler under it to mold it in.

Overall, I am very pleased with the results, and the tunnel is extremely strong. Here are some pictures of the foam and putty coming out, and also the finished underside.

Don