Project $ 3 K Is Underway

Don---I used a 1985 S10 rearend when I built the roadster pickup. I used a set of "no-name" coils from a swapmeet, built my own coil-cups, brackets, and Panhard rod. It works excellent, and if you want, I have some very good pictures I can post. I didn't want to do a lot of welding on the axle tubes, so I used the leaf spring mount that was welded to the axle tubes in the "factory" and built my brackets off them. The only thing to watch for if you do that, is that the S10 had a really ignorant angle on their spring-pads. I had to build 11 degree angular wedges to get my brackets in the correct aspect to give the proper pinion angle.---Brian

Brian: I think posting the pix would be a great idea. I'm kind of locked into the model a rear spring I have, but I'll bet alot of guys could use this info. Sounds like it is pretty straightforward, too.


Don

Okay Guys---This is a 1985 S10 rearend installed in a boxed model A frame---it is the perfect width for a full fendered model A of any year with no modification.. I didn't want to weld too much onto the axle tubes, for fear of warping them, so I welded nearly all of my bracketry onto the S10 leaf spring mount. NOTE---the S10 mount is at a weird angle in relationship to the pinion angle, so to get everything at the correct rotational aspect, I had to build some "wedge plates" with an angle of about 11 or 13 degrees (can't remember which) to get my pinion angle correct. This rear suspension rides great (I built my own 4-bar setup for it) The shocks are "bayonet" type with a threaded stud on both ends, and fit inside the coil springs. (in the picture I have peices of threaded rod through the position that the coil spring and shock absorber would normally go).

And here are 2 more

And the last one

And here is the last of them---In the close-up of the rearend assembly, you can see the wedge plates I was talking about in the lower right hand corner of the picture.

Nice work there Brian.
Update coming this week on mine guy's- I've made some progress sooooo...

Made just a little progress today on Project $ 3K. Finally got the tubing I bought a few weeks ago down out of the rack and started measuring the old frame (the one we decided not to use) to see how much kickup we would have to put in the rear to get it in the weeds. I want this frame to sit about 5 inches off the ground in the front, and 7 in the rear.

We used some 2 x 4 lumber and built a kickup onto the old frame and held it in place with C-clamps, and eyeballed it until we had one that looked good and would get us down there. It ended up at a 14 inch rear kickup. We also wanted the kickup to sort of be in the same plane as the rear curvature of the '23 body, so we dialed in an 80 degree angle to it and cut the tubing so it would lay in that position.

Rather than just weld the seams together, we decided to make little "backing plates" out of 1 and 1/4 inch x 1/8 inch flat stock, and slip these into the cut off tubing so that we could leave a little bigger gap and turn up the mig for a really good joint. These backers are first clamped to one side of the cut off tubing and plug welded into place through a 2 holes drilled in the tubing. Then, when we slip the other piece of tubing over the backers it will give us an additional thickness of steel to weld to. I can't take credit for this trick, my Son told me about it, and he used it when he built his frame. It not only gives you a stronger joint, but a flatter, nicer looking weld too.

The pictures show the backers ( I had to cut and shape 16 of them). I did the first one on a grinder, and then set up a jig in the bandsaw so that I could cut 2 at a time. Went alot quicker that way.

We also used a 2 and 3/4 inch hole saw and punched a hole in each side tube so that we could insert the Total Performance round front crossmember into it. We will then cut and weld the front of each side tube to wrap around the front of the front crossmember, which should give it a cleaner look.

I dug a model A Ford rear crossmember out and we are probably going to cut it to size and use it for a rear crossmember. I have always liked the looks of these on a modified.

The pictures below show the siderails with the 14 inch kickup, and also the little "backers" I made to slip into each tube. The picture with the vicegrips holding it in place gives you an idea of how it will look when we finally weld it with two plug welds just to hold it until it is assembled and fully welded.

Another day of work should put us pretty far along and I will post more pictures as we start assembling the frame.


Now it is time for a cold beer and shower. It must have been 95 degrees today in the shop.:eek: :eek: :eek:


Don

Darn.......here are the pictures.


The last picture is how I jigged the short pieces of flat stock into the bandsaw to cut the point on the one end, so it will slip into the inside of the tubing.

The two little holes in the tubing are where we will temporarily plug weld the little backer to hold them until finally welded when we finish the joint.


Don

You must be determined to work on that. Or did you get your welder problem solved? We were in the mid 90s here in MI also. Not to much shop time in today.

Yeah, we got the welder fixed. It was the regulator. Thanks for asking and for the replys you guys gave this am.

I went to the shop and hooked up the extra bottle that we have that is almost empty, and it still pegged the needle. On a hunch that they would be open, I went to Northern and they carry the same regulator we had, so I bought one, and it immediately started working.

I guess just a coincidence that it died at the same time we put the new bottle on.

Thanks again to all who helped.


Don

It was over 90 degrees F here in central Ontario today---gorgeous day. I ran out of engineering work at noon, so took a bunch of my fancy new brochures advertising "Rupnow Machine and Automation Design" and drove up to Orillia in the roadster pickup and went around to about 15 factories handing them out. People didn't care whether they seen me or not, but everybody came out and fussed over the roadster pickup!!! The kickup looks good. I am attaching a pic of the chassis I built for my 27 roadster about 11 years ago---the kickup on what I built looks a lot like what you are doing.(I used 2" x 6" rectangular tubing, and shaped it to replicate a 32 frame from the firewall foreward)

Really nice frame Brian, and it doesn't look like it will ever break.

Made just a little progress today on the frame. I went over to the shop about 1 am the other morning and worked until about 5. It was nice and cool (if there is such a thing as cool in SW Florida) But at least I got the front part of the frame cut out for the tubing crossmember. There are several ways to do it, but I have always liked the method of punching an appropriately sized hole saw through the inner wall of the frame, and then leaving material on the outside in the shape of the tubing. I think it gives you more to weld to, and a stronger joint.

Here are a couple pictures showing that joint. After it is welded, we will bend down the flaps in the front around the tube, and weld the entire assembly together.

Don

Today I worked on the kickup portion in the rear. I had previously cut out little backing plates made of 1 1/4" x 1/8" flat stock, and today I mig welded them into place, to hold them until the final joints are completely welded. I learned a few things today:

1) In addition to all my other bodily functions starting to go away, my math skills are also not so hot. I labored over making 16 backing plates last week, and today I discovered I only needed 8. How I did that I will never know.

2) Self darkening welding helmets shut off after a few minutes. I flashed myself pretty good when I struck the 2nd arc and the mask didn't darken. Still seeing little yellow spots in front of my eyes. May have to use that potato in the eye trick someone suggested in another post, if it gets worse tonight.

3) The 1/4 inch holes I drilled to do my plug welding through were too small to get good penetration into the backer plates. This doesn't have to be a super strong weld, but they shouldn't just fall off like my first attempt did.:o :o :o

The pictures down below give some idea of the concept of the backers. They form a tongue and groove sort of affair, and when you slip them inside the other tube it allows you to leave a bigger gap to weld. This, coupled with the extra metal of the backer allow you to crank up the welder and get a deep, but flush weld joint.

None of this is new to most of you, but I thought it would be helpful to those just beginning to do this stuff.

My Kid is out of town for the weekend, but when he gets back we plan to clamp the rails to the jig and start final welding. Hope none of this is boring any of you, hopefully when the frame gets welded we will really begin to move along.

Thanks for looking,


Don

For you younguns out there, drilling a hole and welding through it is called a rosette.

Thanks for the ongoing progress reports Don....nice work :D

FRAME IS FINALLY ALL WELDED.:D :D :D :D :D :D


It's about 12:30 AM, and Dan and I just put in a 12 hour day getting the frame for project $ 3K finished. Well, almost finished........there are still a zillion things to do, like build a front perch, hang the radius rods, etc. but at least the entire main frame is all welded, thanks to my Son, who gave up his only day off this week to spend it welding it for me. Thanks Dan. He says it is an early Fathers Day present, and I like it.

First of all, we got all the final grinding done so that the weld joints would be beveled. He didn't like the way I did them last week, so he had me regrind the angles a little sharper to give him a better area to weld. Trouble with perfectionists like him is that they are usually right, so I couldn't argue.

After that we clamped the side rails to his welding table and finished the kick up portions. When that was done, we clamped both rails to the frame jig and trued it all up, and triangulated it. For the rear I wanted to use a Model A rear crossmember, so we cut off the ends and slipped the remaining piece into the rear of the frame, and welded it all together. We are going to add some gussets and two tubular crossmembers right at the kickup, so we punched some holes in there to slip the tubes into.

Now I can start channelling the body and getting it into its final position, and if I feel up to it tomorrow I will start on that. But right now I am totally wiped out from the heat and lifting steel tubing all day, so there is a hot shower and a cold screwdriver in my very immediate future. (the drink, not the tool :D )

Here are some pix of what we did today.


Don

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You can only post 5 pix at one time, so here are a couple more. The last one is the body kind of mocked up with the slicks off of my '39. I kind of like the look, so I'll have to see if those are the ones I will be using.


Don

DID SOME BODY CHANNELING TODAY.


This morning I was looking for the license number on the truck that ran over me yesterday (We spent 12 hours lifting steel and welding :eek: :eek: ) I haven't been this tired and sore for a while. But finally this PM I managed to get the strength to go back to the shop and clean up the mess we left last night.

After that we decided to channel the body over the frame to see how it was going to sit. I want this thing on the ground, so the frame is going to have 5 inches clearance in the front and 6 in the rear. We took a whopping 17 inches out of the rear so the body could slip back over the kickup and hide it somewhat, and we took 3 out of the front. (I forgot what fiberglass does to you when you are sweating and it sticks to your skin.:eek: :eek: :eek: ) I'll probably be itching tonight when I try to sleep.

Finally, we mocked it up with the wheels and tires to get an idea of how it was going to look, and I think I am going to keep the slicks on the rear. It will change my $ 3000.00 budget a little (wheels and tires cost me $ 750.00) but I think the look is worth it. On the front I am going to run 5:60 X 15's that I am going to borrow from my '27. It has been sitting unused for 5 years, so it won't mind. So far the look is what I wanted, sort of early lakes modified, but with some modern touches.

Don't think the 3 speed stick idea is going to work though. The engine and trans are going to have to sit so high to clear the ground that there is not a lot of room left for pedals. Plus, the Hurst shifter would be right against my right leg, and be difficult to shift in that position. So I guess I'll win another 350 turbo on Ebay from Jackson Transmissions and put that in there.

Here are some pictures of the mock up we did today after the channel job.


Thanks for looking,


Don

That is coming along great. It has a nice stance. Any idea on color yet?

As you probably know, final color is the toughest decision to make when doing a car. I am bouncing around between all red undercarriage and engine, with a dark blue body. and red interior, or........maybe all semi black undercarriage and bronze body and frame ( I like some of the new bronze colors on cars like the 350 Z's)

Usually I have no idea until I actually walk into the paint store and buy it. I understand there are ways to do a computer color workup on a car to give you some options, but I am not the smartest computer person in the world.

But I am kind of partial to red wheels and wide whites, so I probably will go with that. Besides I don't feel like dismounting the slicks and painting the rear wheels again.:3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:

Thanks for the encouragement.


Don

Don iot is really looking great. Good progress

Every time I see wide whites I can't help remembering when I worked in a Standard service station some 40+ years ago. I had to mount 4 tires with the white wall falses I don't think I ever got them to seal right. I had to go out to the coustomers house jack up the car bring back the flat remount and bring it back and install it. About 5 times. I HATED THOSE THINGS. That was the only set I had trouble with but it was bad enough to remember all this time.

wow, this thread is awesome! im new to the forum and just wanted to say awesome job so far. I cant wait to see it complete and if it will end up being around budget! cool idea!

Thank you, and welcome. This forum is gaining members daily, and we love it. The more the merrier.

I sometimes worry about posting some dumb little bracket I made for the T, but then I remember how I love looking at other peoples posts of what they are doing. So I guess it is ok.

I know some of the old timers on here (in experience, not years :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: ) probably fall asleep on some of the stuff I have posted on this build, because they have done this and so much more, but I hope some of the younger or just starting out builders can learn something from it. I know I am learning from it, because I haven't built a ground up car it a lot of years, and my approach was always to get 'er done. My work was far from show quality, but the cars generally stayed together and were fun drivers.

Ever since my Kid has gotten involved doing the welding and helping me with this car, it has taken a slightly different directiion. He drives me nuts with his perfectionism, but he has a great eye, and has corrected me on some of my thinking about what this car should end up as. He actually had me nervous the other day as he was watching me cut stuff with the cut off wheel, and he thought I was going crooked. So I try to sneak over the shop like at 1 AM when he isn't around.:LOL: :LOL:

But thanks again for the encouragement, and if it gets boring at times, just hit the ignore button.


Don

PS: I stopped over at the shop tonight after work, and he has made a lot of progress on his '30 roadster pickup. I can't wait til that car is done, it is really something beyond what I could ever dream up or build.

FRONT SPRING PERCH GOT BUILT TONIGHT.:3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:


After work I went to the shop and started cutting out the pieces of steel for the front perch . I used a section of C channel for the top, and cut off one leg, and then I cut two side pieces that cradle the tubular crossmember. My Son showed up, got involved, helped me prep the parts, and then he did the final welding.

We still have to weld it to the crossmember, but since it is 2 AM and we just got home, that will have to wait until tomorrow night. It looks pretty good, and is really strong, so it should work fine.

Here are a couple of pictures. The first 2 are of the cut out steel pieces, and the other two are shots of the perch mocked up on the crossmember.

Since I get up at 6:15, morning is going to come really early tomorrow, but at least one more step is done on the T.


Don

In my last post, that got wiped out when the forum was down, I mentioned that the front perch we spent a day building ended up setting the car too low. That's rod building, clearances and things change as you go along, so you just have to salvage what you can and move on. So I ordered a front perch from Total Performance because I have one in the shop on a frame, and it looked perfect for what I needed. Plus, I really didn't feel like spending another day building a new one. (Sometimes easier and quicker to buy something off the rack that fits.)

The perch came in, and it is just what I need to get the front low, and yet still put the frame about 5 inches off the ground in the front. I am not going to weld it on until the motor and trans are hanging on mounts, because I want to see how far the frame settles before I commit.

So today I started on the engine mounts and transmission mount. I picked up a 1961 Chevy stick transmission mount at Advanced Auto Parts. They had one in stock (go figure) and it was like $ 4.50. It is exactly what I need for the '61 3 speed trans I am using, and I like to use off the shelf parts when I can, so if I break down 300 miles from home I can get parts easily.

For the transmission mount and also two other rear crossmembers, I am using 1 and 3/4 inch DOM tubing .125 wall. I have two that will reinforce the rear kickup, and one more under the rear of the transmission. I cut some flat plate to use as a perch to weld to the tube and this will be where the trans mount goes.

On the front, I cut 2 triangular shaped plates out of 1/4 inch flat stock, and drilled 3 holes in each of them to bolt to the block. I had a spare 350 empty block that I used to make the mock up. From that, I cut a section out of tubing that is 2 x 3 and will have this welded to the triangular plates. Then I will mount early Ford biscuit type rubber mounts to the ends of that and build a mount from the frame to join the two together. I ordered the rubber mounts from Speedway, and they will be here Tuesday. The engine mounts are nothing special, and have been used on thousands of cars. They are simple and easy to make.

All I have to do now is get Dan to weld the pieces onto the frame, and I can finally get the engine supported without all those concrete blocks and pieces of wood.

Here are some pictures of what I did today.


Don

Once I had the triangular plated bolted to the dummy block, I needed to cut the arms that come off of them to hold the Ford mounts. To get the correct angle, I put a piece of flat stock across the machined surface where the oil pan goes, and then used an angle finder to plot the angle. I then put it into the bandsaw and cut some 2 x 3 rectangular tubing to that angle. I then cut the outside part of that piece a little rounded to give it some detail. The first picture is of the flat stock to give me a straight edge. The second is of the bandsaw being set up, and the third is of the finished mounts.

Don

And finally, here is a picture of the 3 tube crossmembers I built out of 1 and 3/4 inch DOM tubing. When these are welded into place, the frame should be really rigid. I considered making the trans crossmember a drop out, but decided I would never pull the trans that way, but would pull the entire engine, like I do in my '27. So we will weld it in solid, just like the other 2. I used a 1 and 3/4 inch holesaw, and put holes right through the inside of the frame in all 3 places. The tubes are slightly longer and pass into the frame.


Don

I also got one of those "freebie, nada, zilch" items like Jesse James gets all the time on Monster Garage. Dan bought me a set of Cal Custom finned aluminum valve covers for my Birthday a couple of weeks ago, and they just came in. These things are really nice, and will give the Vortec the look of an older Chevy engine. Cal Custom is making these now, and they even come with some trick little nuts to go on the four studs that hold the cover on.

So I guess since it was a gift, I don't have to claim it in the $ 3 K figure ??:D :D My other Son gave me a couple of gift certificates from Advance Auto Parts, so I can get some of the other parts I need to get the car running.


Here are a couple of shots of them. I hated to put them on the grungy engine that hasn't been to the machine shop yet, but you know how it is when you get some new chrome goodie...........you just have to put it on.:D :D :D


Don

Sort of made some pretty good progress this weekend. My Son left for an out of town gig this weekend, but before he left on Friday he welded up the transmission crossmember for me. For now, we have left it loose to rotate in the 1 and 3/4 inch holes I punched in the frame, we will weld it up after the front mounts are holding the weight of the engine and we can angle it perfectly to match that final angle.

Yesterday I went over and started fabricating the bottom parts of the engine mounts. The engine sits really high because the frame is going to be so low, consequently the lower mounts had to be about 6 inched tall. With that much height I didn't want any flex, so I made them out of 1/4 inch flat stock, and made a 3 sided box out of this. For a little detail I shaped the back portion slightly rounded, and angled the outside portion so it wasn't straight up and down. I also punched 6 holes in the 3 sides to break up the slab sidedness a little. They aren't the prettiest things, but strength was the most important thing to me in building them.

Since Dan wasn't here to weld them for me I decided to do the welding myself. I have done some arc welding in the past, and my welds aren't pretty, but none have ever broken, so I thought WTH, a mig can't be that hard to use. I jigged everything up and clamped it so nothing would distort, and fired up the mig. Let me say I won't be welding any of the suspension pieces on the car, but the mounts actually came out ok, and I know I got good penetration because I could see the back side before I fully welded it on that side. A little grinding and some body filler to make it pretty, and I will be able to paint them.

I AM going to have Dan weld the lower mounts to the frame, however, as I want these to not only be strong, but pretty, and his welds are good to go without any filler. I actually only got one lower mount done (man these things take time:CRY: :CRY: ) but the second one should go faster now that I have one under my belt, plus I have most of the pieces already cut out and ready to weld.

I also found out something else I had forgotten. If you weld without a long sleeved shirt on you will get a bad sunburn on the left side of your body. I had NO shirt on, so I am half red and stinging a little bit. But at least I wore a shirt today because I didn't want sunburn on top of sunburn.:eek: :eek: :eek:


Here are some pictures of the rear crossmember and also the one front mount I have done. My goal is to have the car sitting on wheels by 8/15. Otherwise , I won't be done in time for Turkey Run at Thanksgiving.

Don

looking good don. :cool:

Don, that's coming along really nice. Great job!!!!!:)

Thanks Mike and Duane. I know I could have built some more stylish lower mounts, but I kind of overengineer things, and didn't want them to shift or break on me. I think when they are painted frame and body color they will blend in better.

I saw the ones pictured below on Ebay, and actually thought of building mine like these, but they just look so flimsy that I decided to err or the side of safety. The other factor is how high they need to be to get me some ground clearance for the oil pan.


Don

Looking very good Don, how are you doing on your budget so far? I am Junkyard Junkie and I beleive you can do it, I'm rootin' for ya!:cool:

Well, a few things are going to put me slightly over, like the $ 750.00 worth of slicks and wheels I pirated off of my unfinished '39 to use on the bucket, but I still think I can come in near the $ 3000.00 figure. I have to sit down with my receipts for purchases I have been making and see exactly where I am ( I just haven't taken the time to do that).

It's like every other build out there, it is evolving as I am going along. At one point I was going to use the old radiator I had sitting around, but think I will invest in a good new one rather than do it half way and then have to deal with problems later on. I still think it could be done really cheap if you waited for deals to come along and compromised on some items, like using cheaper tires, but I am also trying to hit a deadline for having the car running in time for Daytona, so I can't waste too much time looking for the parts I need. I also want the final car to be a little nicer that the primered, unupholstered version I first planned on building.

Another change is that we were going to give this car to my one Son when it is done, but we have come to realize he has no interest in this kind of car, he is more of a Mustang 5.0 guy, and just sold his 2003 Mach I so he could free up some money to finish his Capri. The few times he was over at the shop he was very disinterested in the bucket, and my Son Dan commented exactly what I had been thinking, that this is not his cup of tea. So, I will keep it for me, and help him get his Capri done.

Thanks for the encouragement, and I figure even if the cost goes a little over the $ 3000.00 it will still be ok, as I will still not have in it anywhere near the normal amount of money a rod takes to build. Plus, maybe there will be some encouragement and ideas in here for others who may be thinking of building a rod. I know some of the posts are very basic, but for someone who has never done it there may be some insight into how these things go together.


Thanks again guys,


Don

Well, to get out of the rut of taking a nap every night after work, I have decided to drive straight to the shop, instead of going home, and try to get one project on the car done every night. (Once I get home it's all over:( :( )

So tonight I finished up the drivers side lower engine mount, and am going to have Dan weld it them both to the frame tomorrow night. I'm actually starting to feel more comfortable with the mig, and this motor mount went a lot better than the other side. I guess the practice is helping, but I am not up to welding things that actually show yet, like the mounts to the frame and the front perch. I'll leave that to someone who knows what he is doing.

I also wanted to get the body back on the frame now that the engine and trans are in the exact final position. I want to see what clearance issues I might have to deal with, and also how it is going to look with the engine mounted as high as it is. To get a pretty close cut on the firewall to clear the bellhousing, I had an old empty turbo 350 case that we use for mockups, and it is the same shape as the stick shift bellhousing, so I used it to scribe a line around the perimeter. This is the area I cut out with a jigsaw with a very fine blade to minimize chipping of the fiberglass.

After I cut out the hole the body went on the frame and engine perfectly, and I finally got to see if I was going to have enough room for a clutch and brake pedal in addition to a throttle. I really want to run this stick set up, so I am going to do everything possible to make it fit. From the initial fitting, I think it will work. There won't be a ton of room, but if I wear the right shoes (tennis shoes) I think my feet will fit with 3 pedals down there.

Here are some pictures of tonights progress. Thanks for looking.


Don

And of course I had to slip my new valve covers on just to see how the engine was going to look sort of in it's final dress. I think I am going to like it.


Don

looks good. it looks like you have abit more room with the stick if you can run the pedals

Thanks Pat. I remember I had an Austin Healey Sprite, and there was about the same amount of foot room, and they got 3 pedals in there, so I think if I make the pedals thin enough they will fit. Good thing I'm only 5' 9" and 170. Us little dudes can sort of squeeze into these tight T's.

Don

yes it looks cool . yes some small pedals should do with a spoon gas pedals and a blast to drive with the stick i would not know about the 170? about 40 over that but get out the shoe horn