Glad you took the time to find molded hoses to fit............I've never been fond of the "ribbed tickler" look..............I have a friend who refers to them as the reproductive appendage of a donkey...........only not in so many words.:D
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Glad you took the time to find molded hoses to fit............I've never been fond of the "ribbed tickler" look..............I have a friend who refers to them as the reproductive appendage of a donkey...........only not in so many words.:D
AHAH Chocolate chip cookies I want I want now:p :p :LOL:
Sorry brain leaking
Brad
Glad you don't have any of your usual pictures of THAT ONE Bob. :eek: :o :LOL: :LOL:
Yep Brad, I've gained 10 pounds since this thread started.......all this talk about food and beer.............:D
Don
Don,
They're concave . . . unless you flip them over, then they're convex. :LOL:
I knew I shouldn't have fallen asleep that day in class. :D :D (one of MANY) Thanks for the clarification Jack.
Don
I think I see a "baffled grommet" on your valve cover...true?
I have similar valve covers and am told I should get one for my pcv valve.
I am on pins and needles with this build, looks great so far.
Don, I like your idea on stops for the steering. That looks like it will definitely save your paint.
Con'cave'......when its got a 'cave' in it, has a 'cavity'; bends inward, convex; bends outward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
A little tip my Form 2 teacher Mr. Sinclair gave me fifty years ago....and it stuck.
I think so Duane. I hated to cover up the stainless stops I paid extra for, but I would rather do that than mess up the backing plates.
Gusaroo, thank you. Yep, there is a baffle under each side. They came in the box with the valve covers, and just screwed in place. I didn't have baffles on the 302 in my '27, and it did tend to suck oil out of the cover, so I made up some simple plates and pop rivited them in.
Don
Don, I can hear it run already it's so close to being done.
Brad
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradC
Brad, you have no idea how accurate that statement is. Tonight we fired up the engine for the first time !!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :D :D
I didn't plan on doing that, but my Kid kept saying things like " you know we could get this running tonight if we tried." I really didn't want to, but he kept insisting, so we went to the auto parts store and picked up a coil, some spark plugs ,oil, fuel line, etc, etc. I first prelubed the engine after putting 5 quarts of Rotella T in the crankcase, and got about 65 pounds on the temporary gauge I hooked up. After making up some temporary wiring and hoses we turned on the electric pump and started cranking, but it wouldn't fire.......no spark. Found that I had two wires wrong going into the distributor.
Once that was corrected we tried it again, and suddenly my leg was getting blasted by flames from the drivers side header.......... IT ACTUALLY STARTED AND RAN !! :3dSMILE: It sat there and idled, and took gas pretty well when goosed, but we shut it down right away to check for leaks and stuff, and found that the starter gear is not releasing all the way out of the flexplate. For some reason either the flexplate is a little too far forward, or the starter is too far back. Not a lot, just an 1/8 of an inch or so, but enough to keep it engaged when the engine starts.
Let me ask the Chevy experts a question. Is there supposed to be any kind of a thin spacer between the crank and flexplate? I didn't get a flywheel when I got the engine, so I have no idea what is supposed to be in there. I just bolted the flexplate right to the crank. In any event, I am not too unhappy with having that little problem to deal with.....at least the engine fires right up, and I saw no leaks or smoke. I can solve the starter issue.
So tonight I am on cloud nine, but I know I am going to have to install baffles in the headers, that baby is loud. Here are the only two pictures I had time to take today. First one is me prelubing the engine, and the second is the oil gauge showing about 65 lbs.
Don
Thats Great Don, I love the color of the driveline.... Your almost there...That car is going to look killer....
Thanks Chevyboy. Once I get by this little starter issue it should be all downhill from here. I went to our archieves because Jag454 had exactly this problem, and I called Powermaster for him. The senior tech from Powermaster posted this response:
Hi guys John Brady from Powermaster here. I am the senior tech for them and this an unusual situation here. The gear looks to be retracted all the way from the picture. What I would suggest is the check the distance from the centerline of the mounting holes to the engine side of the ring gear. It should be 15/16 of an inch. To get an accurate measurement take a straight edge and lay it across the centerline of the starter mounting bolt holes in the engine block. Then take a ruler or tape measure and measure to the engine side of the ring gear. By the looks of the converter and flexplate it may be a situation where the converter is not seated in the trans all the way or the flexplate is on backwards. To check for the converter being seated all the way, take out the converter bolts and you should be able to "slide" the converter back into the trans about 1/4 to 3/8 inch leaving an air gap between the converter and flex plate. If you take the bolts out and the converter will not slide back in and you cannot spin the converter freely it is more than likely not seated and is pushing the flexplate forward into the starter. To have a starter that far engaged at rest and not have a flexplate/converter issue is HIGHLY unlikely.
So tomorrow I will see if I have 15/16ths of an inch, and go from there.
Don
Don,
A good friend of mine had problems with one of those little starters on the Model-A he is building. In his case, the starter fit too close to the block and wouldn't engage.:eek: At first he thought he had the wrong flex plate, but a count of the teeth proved it was, indeed, correct. He tried shimming the starter farther & farther from the block, but ended up with an ugly stack of spacers and it still made nasty noises whenever the starter engaged.:mad: He finally determined that the darned thing was just machined wrong and took it off. He put an original style starter on there and it works perfectly with no shims or other modifications.:rolleyes:
My point is, the problem might be with the starter and not the flex plate. While you are measuring things, measure the snout length and mounting holes on the starter. It would be helpful if you have a stock starter to compare dimensions with, or, better yet, bolt it in place and see if the teeth disengage properly...:HMMM:
Where's the "youtube" video of this event...?
I worked in a Delco starter shop and 6 out of ten starters needed to be shimed away from the block because it wouldn't disengage or growled when it started. A couple shims will solve the problem straight away imho.
Way to go Don, even though you wern't quite ready, it must have been a thrill to hear her run. It is getting closer everyday to driving her down the raod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusaroo
I guess I have to save that for when I take the first lap around the block, huh? :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: We were so busy I didn't even get pictures of anything we did.
As for the starter, what helped a little was we installed a round shim they give you in the box.............not the normal flat shims that go on the mounting bolts, but this round shim goes on the snout and serves to move the starter toward the front of the engine slightly. But even with that it was too far back just a tad.
I am going to get the car up on some stands so I can see under there (darned thing is too low :D :D ) and do that measuring thing the guy from Powermaster suggested. I have seen some flywheels that have a little round spacer ring that goes on the same bolt holes as the flywheel or flexplate. Does Chevy use a spacer behind the flexplate??? I am also going to pop the convertor loose and see how easily it moves rearward.
But on the upside, the engine fires up on about one revolution and sounds pretty good. Just some minor ( I hope) things to fix, and it should be a runner.
Don
Ok, get out the popcorn. Finally got the starter shimmed right tonight and fired it up. :D :D :D :D
Lots of stray wires and hoses, but at least it runs........and no leaks so far.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AioHw2-6Jyc
Don
Right on ,congrats don, she sounds good.
Don sounds great glad you did get the you tube up . Was really waiting on this one . Its a sweet thing when they hit right off and purr like that . To me it gives a little more confidence for the trip down the road . Now keep going and keep the cam up for its maiden journey out of the shop lot . Makes me want to stay home from work and get in the garage .
You tube has made you go from a rod builder to a movie star . LOL
Alright!!! I'm glad it turned out to be a simple fix and not a defective starter snout. It won't be long now...:D :D :D
Don---Special congratulations to you!!! feels great, doesn't it.---Brian
I knew you could do it Don, it sounds great. Next trip on youtube will have to be the complete car. Go have a beer I will buy.
Brad
Thanks guys, yep, it is pretty exciting. Funny part was, I didn't realize how close I was to getting it fired up. When Dan started pushing me to do it there seemed like a million little things we needed to do first, and I kept telling him there was too much to do. But he finally got out some paper and said "ok, what all do we need to buy tonight?" Turned out the list was shorter than I thought it would be.
I'm really glad he urged me to get it running because now a lot of "unknowns" are out of the way. It starts up, runs, and seems to have no issues. After we did the video thing we put jackstands under the rear axle to get the wheels off the ground, and I was able to shift the transmission through the gears. It seems fine, and the driveline seems to move smoothly and quietly.
Good thing we ran out of time or I might have bolted my pondering chair to the frame and taken a quick lap around the block. :D Now I can concentrate on my brake lines, wiring, and getting some paint on the body.
I'm really glad I could do the Youtube thing and share it with all of you who have been so supportive and fun throughout this build.
Don
Oh, thought I would pass along what we learned about the starter problem, in case anyone else has similar issues. When I went back and pulled up Jag454's thread in our archieves, the Tech guy from Powermaster said there should be 15/16 inches of clearance from the centerline of the mounting bolts to the front facing edge of the flexplate or flywheel. When I measured mine, it was about 7/8, so my flexplate was further forward than the perfect dimension.
I called B and M because I am using their flexplate, and the guy there (not the most helpful one I have ever run into :( ) said if the counterweights were on the front of my flexplate I had it on right. They were. So the obvious thing was to make up a thicker shim to move the starter more forward, away from the flexplate. Dan made up one out of 1/8 inch plate, and that did the trick. There is now sufficient clearance between the starter gear and flexplate. Dan is going to make up a permanent spacer out of aluminum and tig it to the mounting base now that we know it works this way.
I'm not sure what is going on with these aftermarket, high performance starters. There have been numerous posts on lots of forums about people having clearance issues with them. Gee, for years all we did was go to the local auto parts store, buy a starter, and bolt it on. Now we have these high tech starters and they seem to need fine tuning. Very strange.
Don
Don,the car has alway's looked great now we know it sound's great. Now tear it all apart and do the rebuild on youtube.:eek: :LOL:
Ron
Don, that sounded great for a SBC.:LOL: :LOL: Nice job. I can hardly wait to see the car together and running on the street. You'll have to Utube that too.:) :)
Kinda like givin' birth huh? Only we didn't have to go through that breathin' and hand holdin' thing (phew!).
Yes, of course you'll get your shape back.;)
Congrats Pops!:D
Don, over the years I've heard many complaints on sbc starters not lining up correctly be they after market or from the parts store. When I put the 400 in the '62 pickup I swapped the nose cone from the 400 starter with the 283 starter and bolted it to the bellhousing and never had any problems.
Your engine sounds really good and I can hear the need for the baffles. Forty years ago it wouldn't have mattered. As with others I anxiously await it being finished and on the street. It will be a head turner. :D
Thanks again y'all. Yes, it is sort of like giving birth.......although I can't say I was brave enough to ACTUALLY go into the delivery room when all that was going on. :eek: If I did, the Doctors would have had 2 patients to deal with......my wife, and ME laying on the floor passed out. :o :D
I am convinced that baffles have to go in there. I am ordering turnouts to deflect the fumes and sound outward a little, but no question it would raise the attention of too many cops if left unmuffled. I hope even the baffles keep that from happening.
Don
Nice work.......sounds good and looks good ,cant hope for much more than that .10 thumbs up!!!!!!!
GOOD ON YA MATE! She's a bobby dazzler! To say I'm pleased for you would be an understatement. Like many others I've watched this from its inception, and felt for you with all the irritations and frustrations.
Now....well, you can be very proud of yourself.
It's all easy-peasy from here on in.
Don congratulations. I've done a bunch of engines over the years and there is always that little bit of anticipation/apprehension prior to the initial fire up. When they pop right off, run, carry oil pressure and don't heat, you know you did good.
It sounds great Don.
Thanks guys. I agree that you always hold your breath for a while, no matter if you have only done one engine or a thousand. Sooner or later one will bite you.
So far, so good on this one though. This is the first roller cam engine I've ever done, and it was nice not to have to break it in like usual. I picked up some Taylor plug wires today and some looms, I'll replace those super long temporary ones and neaten things up a bit.
At least now I have some real incentive to get the body done and back on.....tough to take a test drive sitting on bare frame rails. :D :D
Don
Finally got rid of the temporary plug wires tonight. Picked up a set of Taylors that you cut to length and spent a little while getting those installed. Didn't want to run them over the top of the valve covers, so I ran them down the back of the block, between the heads and firewall. I also loomed the braided lines going to the tranny cooler. I had no choice but to loop them like they are in the picture because of some clearance issues, but they aren't too bad there, and they seem to function fine, as the transmission took 10 quarts to fill, and no leaks so far.
Tomorrow I am going to spend the whole day prepping the body for primer.
Don
Don,
Nice looking motor. I had similar problems with the trans cooling lines, and ended up using banjo fittings to clear the floor.
Don it's looking good, did you have any heat problems, because I still can't see how the air flows thru the fan shroud. I didn't see a beer in your hands on youtube lol
Brad
Thanks, I have to get Mr. Steadyhand Dan to cut out the hole in the shroud for the electric fan. Surprisingly, although we only had it running a little while, the temp never got so you couldn't keep your hand on the engine. Something I was REALLY happy about is that my coated headers didn't discolor yet. Sanderson warns you not to use them until you get the engine dialed in, or you risk burning the coating, but what are you supposed to do, have an old set laying around to use first? I had no choice but to use them and risk it.
I did toast the ones on my '27 during break in years ago, but I was running two fours, and I think the excess fuel increased the exhaust temp with unburned fuel. At least that seems reasonable. But even burned a little, the coating still held up great, was just a little dull in places.
Don
Don,
Are your bolt heads large enough to keep the 'bone from dropping off if the rod end bearing should fail? I couldn't tell whether you had washers or not.
Yep Jack, used large grade 8 washers that are bigger than the hole if it failed. I also locktited the grade 8 bolt and may even drill a hole through them and use safety wire. I think you can see the washer in this picture below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Rifle
Very good point, thanks for asking.
Don