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Thanks Squire, so do I. I guess I'll put some halogen conversions in them.
I'm kinda bummed about not being able to use the stick setup, it would have been pretty cool. But I tend to drive my cars a lot (like every day) and my knees would have been in my face. At least with the automatic I can sort of stretch out a little more.
Don
Don, a friend of mine has had a 331 hemi t-bucket for over 40 years and his auto shift lever is neat. Don't recall he ever said what it came off of but it is just a small handle sticking though the top of the door near the windshield. It's on the flat part of the door and have to be looking to even see it. It's a steel body so I am not sure the top of your door is as wide. Makes for a clean interior.
Sounds like he is running some torque-flite tranny with a cable shifter setup. That would be neat and out of the way. I have a couple of early Ford shifters, and will probably end up modifying one of them to shift it, or maybe go to a Gennie shifter. My kid keeps telling me to just buy a Gennie and get it over with, but I like to build things, and a shifter shouldn't be too hard. All I have to do is figure out some detents so that it stays in a gear without vibrating out. Some springs and notches should do that, I would think.
Wish I had a hemi like your buddy. They are THE engine in my opinion, but are getting a little too pricey for my blood. Plus, I think they cost quite a bit more to build than other engines.
Don
Some more nice work Don.
"......Wish I had a hemi like your buddy. They are THE engine in my opinion, but are getting a little too pricey for my blood. Plus, I think they cost quite a bit more to build than other engines...."
Your right aobut the cost your "project 3K" would consist of an engine only to stay in the budget:LOL: :LOL:
Did I mention I got the Hemi for the Plymouth torn down today ;)
Is your back aching from lifting all of those Hemi pieces? The heads alone have to weigh 150 lbs each. What is the entire engine, like 700 lbs?
I really do like the early hemis. To me, nothing is cooler than to look in a rod and seeing those massive valve covers staring back at you. I know the new hemis are great and all, but the first series just have a certain mistique about them, and I include all of them from the first ones all the way up to the 426's in that group.
Mike, I bet you find parts both new and used are a little expensive though.
Don
I picked the Hemi's I have up over ten years ago before they REALLY started to get popular (expensive) again, but even so they were kind of pricey.
The 3 I have (2 331's and 354) were all acquired through horse trading so I didn't get hurt too bad on the initial acquisition. Looks Like I got really lucky on the 354 I'm going to refeshen up for the 57 (it has fairly low mileage since it was rebuilt), it's been bored .040 (it's now a 361) and the rods already resized. It goes to the macine shop tomorrow and I'll post an update when it comes back and I start building it.
Yeah as far as parts, it's kind of an expensive build
Gasket set $150.
Rod Bearings $110
Main Bearings $110
Cam (only) $200
Waterpump/
oilfilter conversions $100
Pushrods (adjustable) $130
Valve Covers $400
The rest of the parts needed are on par with what it would normally cost to build most other V8s.
I got lucky on the intakes I have and have less than $100 in each (however they would currently go for $600-1000 each on E Bay).
Transmisssion adaptors normally run around $500, but fortunatly I can build my own 4 speed conversions for about $100.
But when all is said and done you just can't beat the visual impact.......... (this is the one that's torn down for the 57 right now)
There are two engines that really look great dressed out in my opinion. One is a hemi, like yours, and a fully dressed flathead is the other.
I envy for that one in the picture.:3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:
Don
don, you are not posting so you better be working.
Actually, I was. I stopped tonight after work and just got in. Didn't really get anything noteworthy done, but I was working on the cowl rollbar I am going to build into the inside of the firewall to support the steering column.
I ordered some steering parts from Speedway today (u joint, shaft, support bearing and removable steering wheel hub) and those should be in next week, Monday or Tuesday.
Thanks squire for keeping me moving though.:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Don
Got an early start today and just got in a little while ago. These 10 hour days really tire me out, but I am seeing some progress on the T.
Today I continued working on the roll bar that is going to be shaped like the inside of the firewall and fit right up against it. I am going to leave it exposed on the interior of the car to give the car somewhat of a competition look.
The reason for the cowl roll bar is simply to support the entire length of the steering column. Most T buckets route the steering box under the floor, so there is no strain on the firewall. In mine I am putting the steering box in front of the firewall, so the dash has to be strong enough to hold the weight of the column and any strain I put on it when steering the car. Fiberglass bodies have very little strength by themselves, and even wooding them helps only a little bit. Certainly not enough to mount a steering column to. So the roll bar will hold the bottom of the steering column (I am going to mount a bearing there on a steel plate welded to the roll bar) and I am going to weld some support arms that go from the roll bar to a piece of 1 x 1 square tubing run the entire width of the dash and fastened to the dash, Then the rear column mount will have a strong place to mount.
I was going to get out the tubing bender and form the roll bar, but I found one of my Sons failed pieces in the scrap bin, and it was almost perfect. I just had to narrow it a little and put one longer leg on it. I joined the two pieces of tubing together by slipping a smaller piece inside of each cut end and rosette welding it in place ( I learned that term from Techinspector 1) Then I fully welded the tubes together into one piece. I also cut some plates that I will weld to the top of the frame and tap for threads. Then the roll bar will bolt to these plates and be removable with the body.
Tomorrow I plan to go to Home Depot and pick up a piece of plywood to start glassing in the firewall so I can then mount the roll bar to it. My plan is for the roll bar to become an integral part of the body when I am done, and unbolt just as the body does.
Here are some pictures of the way I welded up the rollbar, and also the mocked up roll bar on the frame.
Thanks for looking,
Don
I'll go with the Hemi but I have to add that there are several really great looking engines out there, say a blown 570 chevy with nitrious is truely something to see and feel. How about Bank'es twin-turbo sbc, 1100 hp!! Thats beauty to me! Viper engines are very cool to see, hard to say just a couple IMHO.
Very clever idea, and it will be nice and strong that way. I have always thought that a metal frame would probably have to be glassed in for strength. Looking good though Don, should be very strong.
Yeah Brickman, I guess there are a lot of engines that look good dressed out. Those 2 were just a couple of my favs.
Don
Well for todays update I am going to have to stretch it out over a few posts. My computer has been freezing up, and if I do one post that is too long it freezes and I have to reboot it. I guess I just wore this thing out.
As I mentioned yesterday, I went to Home Depot and bought a piece of 3/4 inch thick outdoor grade plywood to do the inside of the firewall. I also went to a marine discount store and bought 10 yards of fiberglass mat and a gallon or polyester resin and hardner. There are two kinds of resin, polyester and epoxy. Of the two, epoxy is stronger and more expensive, but for what I am doing here polyester is fine. To put it into perspective, the majority of boats being built are made with polyester.
I like to use mat rather than cloth because it conforms to the shape of the car better and goes around curves better. It is the random pattern fiberglass you see, as opposed to cloth that is in a uniform woven pattern.
Here are some pictures of the mat and resin I bought.
Don
Geez, I actually beat the computer before it froze up.:D :D :D
When you do fiberglass work, buy yourself some of the plastic graduated cups and mixing containers that you can get at paint stores and places like Home Depot. Also get a bunch of throwaway brushes, as you will only get one use out of them. Also get some disposable plastic gloves (chemical resistant) and wear along sleeve shirt or even better, get those paper suits that have a hood over your head. This stuff will make you itch, especially when you are doing the grinding.
I laid the plywood up against the front of the firewall and traced the outline of it onto the wood. Then I made a smaller tracing about 1/4 inch inside that line, because the inside of the firewall is smaller than the outside. I tilted the blade on the jigsaw to give me a 45 degree angle cut, because that is the shape of the inside of the T body. You want the plywood to have a gap all the way around, not fit tight against the existing body. If it is too tight, the new glass will suck in the body and also give you a shadow. I left a gap and plan to fill it with some thickened resin now that it is dry.
Here are some pictures of the plywood before and after cutting.
Don
The next step is the worst, this is where the itching comes in. All fiberglass has wax on the outside of it. It dries by inhibiting the air. In other words, if you don't keep the air out, it will stay sticky forever. So what you have to do is get rid of the wax on the inside of the body, or the new fiberglass won't stick. I started by washing the entire firewall down with laquer thinner and changing rags often. Then I took a 24 grit sanding disc and ground the entire surface of the firewall and the sides back about 3 inches. The reason you do the laquer thinner first is so there is less wax to grind into the fiberglass. After grinding I washed it once more with laquer thinner, and then took the body outside and washed it thoroughly with water and dish detergent.
After it dried in the sun for awhile I was ready to lay up some fiberglass.
The picture below shows the dust from grinding. It goes everywhere, and will make you itch for about a day if it gets in your pores. Also wear a mask and goggles, as I am sure it isn't the best to breath either.
Don
Here is how you bond the plywood to the body. You cut a couple of layers of mat in the shape of the firewall, but make it about and inch bigger all the way around. This way, when you wet it down with resin, you will have some of the mat going over the edges of the wood and making a stronger bond.
The resin has no strength per se. The strength comes from the mat or glass. Fiberglass is actually called FRP or fiberglass reinforced plastic. When you wet the fiberglass with the resin it encapsulates each strand and when hardened it becomes very strong. What you do is mix up a batch of resin, put the proper amount of hardner into it, stir very well, and then start painting the resin mix onto your body. When you have a good coat on it, you lay the first piece of mat on top of it and use the brush to dab it into the resin, using more resin on the brush to wet the topside of the mat at the same time. You actually just keep dipping the brush into the resin and then dab it onto the dry mat. When you have the proper amount of resin on the mat, the mat will change from white to clear. You don't want to soak the mat, because then you get a resin rich mix, nor do you want too little, because then it is too dry. The proper amount is when the mat just soaks up the resin without running all over the place.
When you are done with the first layer, you can lay up another and another until you are done. You don't have to wait for each layer to dry. In fact, you want to do it while it is wet.
Here is a picture of a wetted out coat, and also a dry layer of mat before wetting it out.
Don
This shot shows the gap I left all around the plywood.
Now you can put the plywood down on the mat, but first paint the side that will touch the mat with some resin. The plywood will suck up some resin, so you don't want your mat to lose any of the resin on it.
When you put the wood against the body, you need to clamp it tightly to the wet fiberglass so that you get a good bond. You can use clamps, or put boards pressing it into place, or do it as I have here, with concrete blocks and weight to hold it down and level and straight. If you don't press it tightly against the body you will get voids and weak spots.
I put two concrete blocks and a heavy piece of steel on top of the wood for several hours until the resin kicked. By the way, you only have about 15 to 20 minutes "pot life" before the resin kicks and starts to get hard. Hot weather shortens this time a lot, and you can buy some more time by mixing up small batches and putting the resin in a shallow pan rather than a deep cup. Heat builds up in a deep cup and makes it kick faster. You can also put the cup into a bigger cup of ice cubes to slow the hardening.
Here is how I weighted it down until it hardened.
Here is a tip when working with mat or cloth. Have all your pieces cut and laying there ready to go. Once your hands are all sticky with resin (and they will be sticky) you won't want to be handling scissors and cutting more fiberglass.
Also, save all the little scraps of fiberglass because you can use these to wet out and lay on top of other pieces, like in corners and small spots where you want to build up fiberglass.
Laquer thinner will clean up your hands and stuff pretty well.
Once the resin had kicked I removed the blocks, and this is what I had. I will lay another piece of mat over the outside of the plywood to seal it in, but that will come later on.
Forget that, I don't have that picture.
But, here is a picture of the body back on the frame, with the firewall roll bar laid up in place. I decided I didn't want the roll bar laying right against the firewall, as I want room under it to put carpeting. So I punched out 4 small pieces of 3/8 steel plate with a hole saw and welded them to the back side of the roll bar. I tapped 5/6 inch threads into the bungs so that I can run bolts through the firewall and into the roll bar. I want the roll bar to be a part of the inner framework.
That roll bar will have a flat steel plate welded on the drivers side to hold the lower bearing support for the steering column. Off of the top of the roll bar I am going to put some legs to a bar that runs under the entire dash to give me a solid place to mount the upper column support.
Finally, while I was waiting for the resin to dry, I started to play around with the windshield for the car. I have a Total Performance windshield that I am saving for the other bucket, but don't want that look for this car. Instead, I have an old Dodge or whatever windshield that I bought on Ebay a while back for $ 25.00. The guy had no idea what it was, and neither did I, but it looked cool and was in good shape.
I plan to only use the upper 1/2 turned upside down. I am going to build some posts out of mild steel, and rake the windshield way back, and leaned out at the bottom. I will fiberglass some pieces of flat steel inside the body to run the bolts through, because these things really take a lot of strain from wind when you are going down the road.
Here is a shot of the entire windshield, and the part that I am going to use from it.
I guess that about does it for now. What do you know, the computer didn't freeze up on me.:D :D :D :D :D
Thanks for looking,
Don
PS: My steering parts should be here Tuesday, so I can start making up the steering column and lower support plate.
"Looking Good" keep it coming. I for one an loving it.
Thanks squire. I keep wondering if I am boring people, but I feel that some people who are thinking about doing something similar may pull some ideas from it. I'm not trying to come across as some great expert or anything, just a backyard rodder building a basic rod. I hope it is seen that way by the other members. I know I love to see it when others post their in-progress pictures. I wish more would do it.
Don
Don,
ive learned alot for this thread keep it up. keeps me from bothering you guys with all my questions.
thanks,
Harmon
Thanks to you too, Harmon. That makes me feel better about doing it.
Don
Ya think you might have it ready for the turkey rod run? id like to see it
I'm pushing for that. One thing is that some of the stuff I need my Son to weld, and he is pushing on his own '29 for the same event, so when I take him away from his project it is hurting his chances of being done. He missed it last year, and I really want to see his car go this year. He just has so much work in the car it would be a shame if he misses it this year too. So if I get mine done it is secondary to his, but if I do make it I will look forward to meeting all you guys who will be there.
I am doing some of my own welding on non structural stuff, so I can at least keep moving that direction.
Thanks for asking, though.
Don
Thanks Denny.
Don
Yes Don there are many of us just hiding out here watching your progress. I for one like the fact that I'm not the only one who gets hit with "OUT OF GAS" :eek: or "WHAT NO OXYGEN" Man where am I going to put that clutch pedal???:CRY: Those are the things that realy happen, and anyone who has built or altered a car knows this all to well.
Keep up the good work
Charlie
Don, I have caught a post on this thread once in a while since you started it, but last night I sat down and read all of them from the beginning. Wow, does this bring back memories because that is the way I do things......make every part myself from scratch. You're an excellent craftsman and I look forward to seeing the finished product.
OH, THE PRESSURE!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Thanks Charlie and Richard, this build has been especially fun because of being able to share it and document it. Like I said, it's been about 5 years since I've undertaken one of these, so I am a little rusty, but am getting more comfortable every time I work on it. I had my welding glove on fire yesterday, but we won't talk about that. :o :o
I really enjoy the support and encouragement each of you has given on this build. It is much appreciated.
Don
well don that is better then your finger on fire .still have a dent in one of mine was tig welding and some thing was cooking and it was not breakfast:eek: but it did smell like bacon:confused:
Well, my steering stuff won't show up from Speedway until tomorrow, so tonight after work I decided to work on the windshield some more. I knew I wanted to use that top half of the Dodge (?) windshield I bought on ebay, but I just didn't know how I was going to mount it to the body. I want it laid back pretty far, and I think I want it not touching the body at the bottom, but rather to look like it is cranked out a little for ventilation.
My first thoughts were to take some flat stock and form some lower windshield mounts like the stock Model T units, but after a few tries with cardboard, none of them looked quite right. Then I hit on the idea of taking the stock Dodge (?) posts and cutting them down and using them. The only fear I had was that they were cast iron and wouldn't weld real well to steel. So I cut one in half, and it turned out to be steel, so that made my decision easy, I could use them.
The only thing that puzzled me was how to afix them to the body so that they would be strong, I for sure don't want my windshield coming unglued at 70 MPH. My head is the first thing in line to take that hit.:eek: :eek: :eek:
Finally I came up with welding 1/4 inch flat stock to the chopped down Dodge (?) posts and through bolting those through the outside edges of the dash. To make them strong, I plan on welding some steel plate to the 1 x 1 box tubing that will run from side to side under the lower edge of the dash, and running the bolts through those plates. This will be steel to steel, and much stronger than going through fiberglass. I am also going to weld a gusset back from each plate about 3 inches, and will use this to further strengthen the lower windshield mounting points. I figure I can drill some holes in the gussets for detail, and use the gussets to mount my 2 peep mirrors.
Still more to figure out, but here are some pictures of the first mock up. The windshield isn't really in it's final resting place, but I had to put it where it would stay with only some blue tape holding it in place.
Thanks for looking,
Don
run up from you roll bar streering brake hanger up from the back side with some small round tube then back plate it .then will take any thing
One more picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Yep Pat, that is a good idea. I want the car to have an inner skeleton of steel tubing, so that is what I will do.
Thanks, Don
gald to help don
Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
Pat, would that be IRISH bacon??:3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:
Don
yes i love my bacon and porkchops:3dSMILE:
Don
it looks great, i need to get some guys like you cutin on my ol dodge..
i weld for a living so i know the smell of bacon all to well:CRY:
thanks
Harmon