37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

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Originally Posted by randyr

Ok, so since the body is now going to come off, there are other things I might want to consider.....like switching from the C4 trans to an AOD, 4R70W, or maybe even a T-5. I've found some info on modifying the x-member to fit the AOD but I don't know about the 4R70W or the T-5. Of course if I go with a T-5 I'll have to come up with a clutch pedal plus a few other things. You guys have any thoughts on these options for the 35-40 frame?

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Hi Guys! We're back!! WooHoo! :LOL: , Like Dave, between fighting the snow and the cold I've made no real progress to speak of. :CRY::CRY:

Also like Dave (almost) I rigged my garage to hoist the body straight up. I crafted a subframe inside the body to pull from and added 2 4X4's to the joists above and with some rope and pulleys I can hoist the body with just a come-along all by myself. I'll see if I took any pics but I don't remember any.

I've decided to purchase a Rootlied hood and also going with the steel inner fenders, mostly to get that clean fit. More costly but a much better fit with cleaner lines I think.

Hey Dave, I thought I'd post our last 2 email conversations that occurred while the site was down just in case anybody else is following the whims of our car building....LOL! Hope you don't mind.

I wrote this to Dave:
Hey Dave,
Since CHR still isn't working, I would appreciate your thoughts on my latest brainstorm. As you know, I'm going to take the body off now which means I need to seriously consider some type of overdrive transmission if I ever hope to get any kind of gas mileage out of this engine. The obvious choice is a post '88 AOD but after talking with the guy who designed my cam, he said an AOD would work fine but thought it would really be cool to put a T-5 in there. I gotta admit I'm a bit intrigued by the idea. I've been reading lots of info about the T-5, which years are better, etc and I think the biggest hurdle would be putting a clutch pedal back in there and adapting it to work the cable clutch. I've located a clutch & brake pedal mechanism from a 36 ford that I can get for $40 but can the pre-39 pedals be adapted to late model master cylinder since they didn't have hydraulic brakes on the earlier models? I've learned that I can swap the tailhousing from a Chevy S-10 T5 onto the Mustang T5 and move the shifter forward to approximately the original position in my car. I don't think the x-member would require any additional mods other than redrilling the mounting holes from the C4. I'm thinking the swap would cost about the same as a rebuilt AOD. I can sell my rebuilt C4 w/Lokar shifter and recoupe most of the cost.
Anyway, tell me why I should or shouldn't do this.....LOL! I know that with the AOD I'll have to trim a little more out of the x-member and rebrace it a bit but Bob Drake did it to their 35 project so I know it's doable. Anyway, as always, I appreciate your thoughts and opinions.
Talk when you can...
Randy


Dave responded with this:

Hi Randy - heluva thing to have to resort to regular ol' emails to yak back and forth ....and CHR is STILL down this morning at 0904EST.

First of all, I did a bit of an answer to your question on the trans changes on CHR about midnight Friday evening - so hopefully I wont contradict
myself.

While I really like the idea of a T-5, that's almost more work at this point then I would like to even consider. The '36 mechanism, while they can be modified for hydraulics with an adapter would probably IMHO, not be the best way to go - unless you could convert it to hydraulics. There are new brackets offered by Chassis Engineering as well as TCI and more vendors that would be a better choice - they aren't over 70 years old and worn out. McLeod offers a hydraulic throwout bearing assembly that you could probably
make work, but if you have a power brake booster you quickly run out of under floor room with a second hydraulic cylinder,
exhaust, cross members and brake bits and pieces like master cylinders, lines, resid valves and whatever else that might be stuffed in that tight area. If you stick with a mechanical linkage, you need balance bars and various links, usually bolted to the engine - and not all SB Fords have the bolt holes just waiting for that assembly. A cable operated system - lots of under dash mods that might not be easy uless you are going to approach this car rebuild as a complete makeover

Then there is the typical S. California daily expressway parking lots and that quivering left clutch leg!!

The AOD is probably the best way, again, my opinion, to update the driveline without spending an inordinate amount of time or, maybe more important, money - as long as it has the better and hardened parts for a modified engine. The Lokar shifter can be converted to the AOD with different brackets - I talked to Lokar a while back when I considered going the same way.

Later,
Dave

To further update my transmission quest, the research continues and my decision is not yet made......how's that for ambiguous? LOL Will give a full report before long.....hopefully

Bobby, what engine & trans are you putting in your 37?

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Originally Posted by randyr

To further update my transmission quest, the research continues and my decision is not yet made......how's that for ambiguous? LOL Will give a full report before long.....hopefully

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Sounds to me like a positive "maybe"!!!:LOL::LOL:

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Originally Posted by randyr

To further update my transmission quest, the research continues and my decision is not yet made......how's that for ambiguous? LOL Will give a full report before long.....hopefully

Bobby, what engine & trans are you putting in your 37?

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Randy, let's see if this works.. turns out I do have a pic of the body after I had hoisted it off. It shows some of the framing and you can pick out the rope & pulleys with the come along at the back. The rope ends connect to a spreader bar on one side and the come along on the other. Worked great for me. Hoisted the body by myself and it was slow and easy going!

Hey Mike,
Thanks for the pics. I'll probably blend all you guys methods together to lift this body up. Some great ideas.
Hope you're feeling better!
Randy

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Originally Posted by randyr

Hey Mike,
Thanks for the pics. I'll probably blend all you guys methods together to lift this body up. Some great ideas.
Hope you're feeling better!
Randy

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Randy, that's how I came up with that "rig". Alot of ideas melded together.

Thanks for asking, re; my health. I get asked so often on that topic now, when people say "how do you feel?" I now respond, "With my HANDS!":3dSMILE::3dSMILE:

We're looking forward to your decision and how you raise that body off!

Mike

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Originally Posted by 34_40

Thanks for asking, re; my health. I get asked so often on that topic now, when people say "how do you feel?" I now respond, "With my HANDS!":3dSMILE::3dSMILE:

We're looking forward to your decision and how you raise that body off!

Mike

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Well, I hope your "hands" are getting a lot of action then!!!! ;);) :LOL:

Along with how I get the body off will be the decision for what trans I end up with......still muddling thru the options on that one but gotta say I haven't ruled out the T5 yet.....

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Originally Posted by randyr

Well, I hope your "hands" are getting a lot of action then!!!! ;);) :LOL:

Along with how I get the body off will be the decision for what trans I end up with......still muddling thru the options on that one but gotta say I haven't ruled out the T5 yet.....

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While I think it would be kewl to "row the manual trans through the gears", it's gonna be a lot of work. With enough cutting and welding you can make anything fit. Just where do you want to draw the line??? Personally, I'd go for the auto over drive and be happy. Maybe after a few years you'll get the bug again and "re-do" the car again. That's what always happens to me! They just never seem to be finished in my mind! I want to always "make it better"!!!:LOL:**):whacked:

Glad to see you back here and posting. Missed your posts over the last few weeks/months.

Mike

Randy a pedal assembly from a 94 to 98 Mustang will take care of your woes on the cable clutch . Very small mounting assembly that takes up hardly any room at all . Here is a pic of said assembly inside the Model A great fit for this small area also .

http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/22...425x425Q85.jpg

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Originally Posted by bluestang67

Randy a pedal assembly from a 94 to 98 Mustang will take care of your woes on the cable clutch . Very small mounting assembly that takes up hardly any room at all . Here is a pic of said assembly inside the Model A great fit for this small area also .

http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/22...425x425Q85.jpg

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Hey Bobby, thanks for the pic. Those Mustang pedals might be ok but I'm not willing to poke a hole in my new firewall for a master cylinder. Whatever I do will have to be under the floor or under the dash. What drive train are you going to put in your car?
Good to hear from you.
Randy

SBF with a T-5 the shape of the firewall has me thinking on the master cylinder also . I will cut and shape it though to get it to work . They do have the right angle master pedal sets hydraulic clutch which will work too .

With the floor pedals some type of bell crank could be made easy enough if you want to keep the pedals there and use a cable . I am just trying what I hope may be easy application with hanging pedals..

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Originally Posted by bluestang67

SBF with a T-5 the shape of the firewall has me thinking on the master cylinder also . I will cut and shape it though to get it to work . They do have the right angle master pedal sets hydraulic clutch which will work too .

With the floor pedals some type of bell crank could be made easy enough if you want to keep the pedals there and use a cable . I am just trying what I hope may be easy application with hanging pedals..

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Yeah, another Ford in a Ford!! If you're cutting the orignial firewall, you can hang a master cylinder on it. My old setup was that way with the C4 before I started this rebuild. We trimmed the old firewall enough to fit the 302 in there and left the rest in tact. I was running a Pinto MC without a power booster hooked to a brake pedal that was fashioned from some unknown Ford from the 70's or 80's. But with the rebuild, I've put in a new big block firewall for more clearance and a cleaner look. I'm trying to keep from putting things on it or through it. That big firewall also has a wider hump in the middle which limits gas pedal & brake pedal space when using the under the floor methods. I had to bend the brake pedal toward the outside of the car to make space for gas pedal. Thus, trying to configure a clutch pedal under there with it seems impossible if I also want the exhaust pipe on that side too. I'm studying the 90 degee under dash units now to see if there's something that will work with the space I have. If it doesn't, I can always revert back to my AOD plans. My x-member is already modified for the C4. That modification should also accomodate the T-5 by redrilling the holes for the mount. The AOD would require more trimming of the x-member.

I've been studying the T-5 threads on HAMB and various Mustang sites and they say you can move the T-5 shifter forward several inches on the Mustang T-5 by using the tailhousing from 83-93 chevy S-10. They also say 90-95 Mustang V8 T-5's have a higher torque rating. The 94-95 has a bit longer input shaft which requires you to use the 94-95 bellhousing with it but the overall length is supposed to be the same.

The 90 degree underdash units all have hydraulic clutches. I've found several links to change the T-5 to hydraulic clutch by simply adding a slave cylinder to the clutch fork. If you want links to any of this stuff let me know....I haven't bought anything yet but I'm doing lots of reading....LOL!

I've been studying the T-5 threads on HAMB and various Mustang sites and they say you can move the T-5 shifter forward several inches on the Mustang T-5 by using the tailhousing from 83-93 chevy S-10. They also say 90-95 Mustang V8 T-5's have a higher torque rating. The 94-95 has a bit longer input shaft which requires you to use the 94-95 bellhousing with it but the overall length is supposed to be the same.


Easy transfer on the trans tail shaft . If you seen the links from the H then you know of the speedo gear adaption you need to make . I did it to put it in the Model A , with the looks of the area in the 37 the original tail shaft may work from the WC T-5 which is the higher torque trans . The T-5 is a good street car trans but not for racing . Here is a pic where it ended up in the A with the S10 tail shaft . It is just in front of the seats by a few inches which is enough with the right shifter . If you want to know the exact measurement I can do that for you . I really think a stock T-5 will be just fine in the 37 with the eye ball room I see. . There is a lot of leg room in the 37 versus the 31 frame and body .

Ok fellas, I made a decision.....I'm going with the T5. In fact I bought one this week. It's freshly rebuilt by a reputable shop (have receipt), came with brand new clutch, new pressure plate, new flywheel and new Hurst billet short throw shifter, plus throwout bearing & pilot beariing. It was a package deal from a guy who put it together for his V8 Pinto but he sold the car before he got this installed. All I need are the pedals and a slave cylinder. I posted my C4 on Craigslist & and sold it in an hour. A guy is coming to buy my Lokar C4 shifter in the morning so it's been pretty smooth transistioning so far. Of course, I don't have it installed in the car yet either....LOL!

It appears that it will work best with the shifter in the original Mustang location rather than swapping tailshaft housings to move the shifter forward a few inches. That will require a little modification of the upper part of my Chassis engineering x-member kit. The lower part of the kit will have to be trimmed a little too and re-drill the holes for the trans mount.

The harder part will be redoing the pedals but I don't mind that so much because I really didn't like what I had already put together for the C4.
Will take some pics as I figure this thing out. It'll be a little extra work but I'm excited about it. Dave, as for driving a stick in LA traffic, I'm used to it...my daily driver Mazda pickup is a stick. As long as it's an easy clutch, I don't mind.