37 Ford build--IE: old Header issues thread /37 Ford/5.0/GT40P heads

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You will need gaskets as well - Sanderson says use high temp silicone which doesn't work - I ended up using Earl's:

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Dave,

Did you use Earl's collector seals also?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

I have my exhaust off the car while installing the seats and seat belt mounting, so I'm going to re-do the gaskets. I used Sanderson's recommendation, but after thinking about it - and reading your earlier post - I'm going to use some decent gaskets. I like the look of Earl's header gaskets. I just have to make sure that they have a version for the Vortec heads.

By the way, the ports on my Sanderson headers (made specifically for Vortec heads) measure 1.5W x 1.875H. The ports measure 1.5W x 1.5H. The ports on the headers are a full 3/8" taller than the ports in the head.

Woohoo! It's like Christmas from the UPS man today.....except I have to pay for it all! Just received my new headers, firewall, floorboards and brake pedal/master cylinder all on the same day.....now I gotta get busy!

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Originally Posted by randyr

Actually, the new starter in question has a solenoid on it....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=320093665903

They include a wiring harness to retrofit it to the old style solenoid but my question is why does it need the old one if it has a new one built onto the starter itself? Does it really need both? If I have to keep the system as is, that's not a bad idea to mount the solenoid in the trunk with the battery. I have a trunk-mount battery kit with a 2 guage cable already

Is it snowing yet??

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Randy
Wot in heck is this guy feeding you - you need 1 NEW style solenoid mounted wherever you want it, no harness just wires. The Ford starter itself does not have a built in solenoid - only GM cars are built that way. Does he think you have a Chevy engine like 90% of the rest? People just don't like to think outside the GM box.

It is snowing and blowing and about 18 degrees - too freakin' cold for this time of year. What global warming?

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Dave,

Did you use Earl's collector seals also?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

I have my exhaust off the car while installing the seats and seat belt mounting, so I'm going to re-do the gaskets. I used Sanderson's recommendation, but after thinking about it - and reading your earlier post - I'm going to use some decent gaskets. I like the look of Earl's header gaskets. I just have to make sure that they have a version for the Vortec heads.

By the way, the ports on my Sanderson headers (made specifically for Vortec heads) measure 1.5W x 1.875H. The ports measure 1.5W x 1.5H. The ports on the headers are a full 3/8" taller than the ports in the head.

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Jack,
My header ports are a bit tall as well - probably in the 3/8" range too big which is the reason I am using the Earl's header seals. They actually have replaceable gaskets mounted inside the metal holders (I guess that's a proper term for them)

I couldn't use standard flange gaskets - for whatever reason I couldn't get them to close enough for gaskets so reverted to the tried and true donut type which fit fine:3dSMILE: .

Dave,

When I pulled my exhaust system off a few days ago, it looked like I got a really good squeeze, and the gasket was very solidly imprinted. I'm going to give Earl's stuff a try on both places.

Thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by Irelands child

Randy
Wot in heck is this guy feeding you - you need 1 NEW style solenoid mounted wherever you want it, no harness just wires. The Ford starter itself does not have a built in solenoid - only GM cars are built that way. Does he think you have a Chevy engine like 90% of the rest? People just don't like to think outside the GM box.

It is snowing and blowing and about 18 degrees - too freakin' cold for this time of year. What global warming?

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I'm so bummed....I just wrote you a big long post and lost the damn thing somehow....so here we go with the re-write....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3810609&rd=1,1

Now, LOL...check out this link for this starter.....it claims to have the solenoid attached. The guy knows I have a Ford in a Ford. So......back to my original question...don't shoot me.....if this new starter truly has a solenoid on it, would I still need the old one on the firewall (or wherever I put it)? Of course, if it's not really a solenoid on the new one, then all of this is a moot point! LOL

I got my headers from Sanderson today. When I ordered them, I spoke to the owner about your concerns regarding welding residue, etc. She assured me that wouldn't happen so I took a chance on their ceramic coating.....I didn't really have time to shop around to get them coated somewhere else, etc.
Anyway, the coating looks good and the insides are smooth and clean, however the guy must of been on crack when drilling one of the bolt holes on the passenger side header! Check it out....I called them and they said they'd send me a new one...LOL....nothing is ever easy is it??!!

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Originally Posted by Irelands child

Randy
Wot in heck is this guy feeding you - you need 1 NEW style solenoid mounted wherever you want it, no harness just wires. The Ford starter itself does not have a built in solenoid - only GM cars are built that way. Does he think you have a Chevy engine like 90% of the rest? People just don't like to think outside the GM box.

It is snowing and blowing and about 18 degrees - too freakin' cold for this time of year. What global warming?

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Oh, I forgot one thing he said about the old solenoid when used with this starter....he said it serves as a junction box.....


You're right, snow & 18 degrees in March is just WRONG!

Hope you have a big roaring fire in the fireplace!

Randy

Dave, do you realize you have well over 8000 posts on this site?! Pretty impressive, but you're still #2......I'm trying to give you lots of things to post about so you can get ahead of that DennyW guy.....LOL!!

Stay warm, my friend.

Later,
Randy

Randy,

Wrong Dave. That's Dave Severson with 8000 posts.

Here's a friend of mine with a few posts on a Civil War reenactors' board:

Charles Heath
Mule
Constabulary
Posts: 42420

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Originally Posted by Henry Rifle

Randy,

Wrong Dave. That's Dave Severson with 8000 posts.

Here's a friend of mine with a few posts on a Civil War reenactors' board:

Charles Heath
Mule
Constabulary
Posts: 42420

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Oops! You're right, Charles. My bad....

Sorry, Dave, I guess we need to push you a little harder....LOL....

Randy

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Originally Posted by randyr

Oops! You're right, Charles. My bad....

Sorry, Dave, I guess we need to push you a little harder....LOL....

Randy

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Oops again, Henry! Some day I'll learn to read!!!! LOL Sorry about that.

there is always a solenoid built into a ford starter.... the "solenoid" on the firewall/fender is actually the starter solenoid relay not the solenoid itself, the relay is also a power distribution block in a sense.... the solenoid itself is inside the starter and is what makes the starter engage when power is supplied, without a solenoid it would just spin in place without ever engaging the flywheel/flexplate

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Originally Posted by thesals

there is always a solenoid built into a ford starter.... the "solenoid" on the firewall/fender is actually the starter solenoid relay not the solenoid itself, the relay is also a power distribution block in a sense.... the solenoid itself is inside the starter and is what makes the starter engage when power is supplied, without a solenoid it would just spin in place without ever engaging the flywheel/flexplate

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I stand corrected - but with the caveat that this solenoid is the device that engages the starter pinion only rather than the centrifugal overriding clutch device that Ford used for many years. The firewall solenoid is the basic controlling device for the starting and ignition system. Regardless , Randy, you will still need a firewall solenoid. If it is a Ford Racing starter, it comes with a simple harness, and which I believe the eBay guy is alluding to - and look at his address - regardless of his statement, is it really new or a rebuild.

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Originally Posted by Irelands child

I stand corrected - but with the caveat that this solenoid is the device that engages the starter pinion only rather than the centrifugal overriding clutch device that Ford used for many years. The firewall solenoid is the basic controlling device for the starting and ignition system. Regardless , Randy, you will still need a firewall solenoid. If it is a Ford Racing starter, it comes with a simple harness, and which I believe the eBay guy is alluding to - and look at his address - regardless of his statement, is it really new or a rebuild.

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Thanks Dave. It seems to be agreed by all concerned that no matter what, I still need that starter-solenoid-relay-controlling device-thingy somewhere on the car...LOL! Whew, I'm glad we got that settled!

As for that particular starter link I sent you, I think they are new but made in China. I don't know that I'll go with them, I was just using them as the example. Sometimes you get what you pay for.....other times you can't pay for what you get....

Anyway, I have a welder coming this morning to fix the cracks in my x-member. The engine should be completed by end of next week. I'll get busy on changing the firewall in the mean time.

Thanks again for all the help!
Stay warm.
Randy

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Originally Posted by randyr

Thanks Dave. It seems to be agreed by all concerned that no matter what, I still need that starter-solenoid-relay-controlling device-thingy somewhere on the car...LOL! Whew, I'm glad we got that settled!

As for that particular starter link I sent you, I think they are new but made in China. I don't know that I'll go with them, I was just using them as the example. Sometimes you get what you pay for.....other times you can't pay for what you get....

Anyway, I have a welder coming this morning to fix the cracks in my x-member. The engine should be completed by end of next week. I'll get busy on changing the firewall in the mean time.

Thanks again for all the help!
Stay warm.
Randy

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Randy,
I guess that Sanderson still has a bit of a quality problem -

If possible, take some photos and post them - probably on a fresh thread or, better yet, start a journal(I wish I had, but delayed joining the digital camera revolution until SLR's got reasonably priced). Possibly would be a help to others that for whatever reason, choose to keep the original frame on their '30s vintage street rod.

Take your time with the firewall - not sure whether the '37 is fully welded in but think it is, but you will probably have some minor body repairs around the edge as well. Might consider photo documenting this as well - again, should be interesting to others that will be trying it.

I just finished cleaning out the driveway with my baby diesel tractor and snow blower - we ended up with 12-14 inches of wind blown, 20 degree weather, snow. Next weekend, we will be in your part of the world - to see how the Left Coast "suffers":eek: in the winter time - business trip.