Another build thread? Yep, my track-style T

Hi Perley. Hadn't heard from you in a while. I was beginning to wonder if you were sick or something. Anyway, I'm flattered that you find me to be an inspiration. It makes you feel good when you try something you haven't done before and it works, doesn't it?:3dSMILE: I guess that's why I like fabrication. Half the stuff I do I've never done before... at least not the same way...

OK, I've put this off almost until the last minute, but I've got to get it done sooner or later... It's time to put the reinforcement in the body. I dread doing fiberglass work because it's itchy; it's not difficult, just itchy, but it has to be done.

The first part isn't bad. I began by making poster board patterns for the wood reinforcement pieces. The next step was to duplicate the patterns in wood. I cheated a little bit here; instead of doing all this at home with hand tools, I utilized the shop at school to make these pieces. I could have done it all at home with a skill saw, jig saw, and a body grinder, but with a complete school shop at my access, why not speed up the process? First, I planed some 2 x 4 material down to 1 5/16" thick to match the depth of the lip around the top of the body. Next, I used the miter saw and band saw to cut the pieces to shape.;)

The vertical pieces in the body needed to be tapered in thickness from the 1 5/16" thickness at the top to 3/4" thickness at the bottom, so I used the jointer to do that. Finally, I used the radial arm saw, with the blade raised to about 3/32" above the table, to put kerf cuts across the pieces so they could be bent to fit inside the body. The sharper a piece needs to bend, the more kerf cuts are necessary. I ended up making the front verticals twice.:rolleyes: I initially made the kerf cuts so they were parallel to the bottom of each piece. When I tried to fit the pieces in the body I discovered that they needed the cuts made the opposite direction so that the wood could twist as it conformed to the body.

Once everything was trimmed to fit, I glued the wood into the body. Having worked as both a body man and a wood shop teacher, it was inevitable that I would eventually combine the two; I discovered some years ago that ordinary automotive body filler is both and excellent wood filler and a very strong adhesive. I used auto body filler to glue the wood reinforcement into the body. I simply mixed the stuff up, slathered it on the back of the wood pieces about 1/4" thick, and then clamped the pieces in place. The body filler fills up any void between the wood and the body and the excess oozes out the sides. I scraped the excess off with my bondo spreader and packed it into the crevices between the wood and the bars inside the body. In 15 or 20 minutes the clamps can be removed and move on to the next piece.

Finally, all the wood was finalized and further strengthened with the application of a layer of fiberglass mat and polyester resin. This is the part I dislike (Did I say it's itchy?); I'm glad it's done! After it's cured completely I will have to knock any lumps, etc. off with a grinder. That process can also be itchy and I will do that outdoors, but the worst is over.:D

I'm itching just watching you do it. :eek: I'm like you, I hate fiberglassing.

Looks good though Jim. You really are getting closer and closer to that big day. When do you think the car will be on the road?

Don

Looking good, (I'm one of the lucky ones-fiberglassing does not itch). Wish I'd known your body filler trick when I glassed my '23 track T. That is a whole lot easier looking than mat-resin and trying to put in place by yourself.

Keep up the good work and the tidbits of knowledge flowing.

Earl

I even heard of the Don itch and talk about wearing panty hose , I'll stick to all steel , the grinding dust washes off . Jim this Track is moving fast , doesn't take you long either when you put your mind to it .

I think the build is great and I appreciate you taking the time to document it. I have one concern though. It appears that your head would be dangerously close to the roll bar. It hurts bad enough to hit a padded rollbar with a helmet on, without one would really hurt. :whacked: Of course my concern may be completely unjustified since I don't know what kind of seat or restraint system you plan on using. **)

I'm looking forward to the rest of your build. Thanks.
Bill

Don - I'm shooting for the Turkey Run, but there's still an awful lot to be done. Even if I overcme all the mechanical stuff, I've still got to go through the hell of applying for a title...:rolleyes:

Earl - You're lucky! All I have to do is walk past someone working with fiberglass and I'll itch for hours!:whacked:

Bobby - I've gotta get this thing done; I already have ideas for the next one!:eek: :LOL:

Bill - Yes, a roll bar can give you a nasty bump on the head (speaking from experience), but if your head meets the pavement that's even worse...:HMMM: Actually, this roll bar is a bit of a compromise. I need it to complete the track roadster theme, but I also want it to be functional. At the same time, I need to keep it at a height where I can put a top on this car for long trips, soooo.... It clears my head by about an inch.:o

I just happened to think about you saying that your head would be one inch away from the roll bar and I thought I'd make that one inch of foam padding. Well, that wouldn't look very good and I don't really know how effective it would be. Then it came to me. :eek: Why not suspend a headrest from your roll bar like some race cars have. Then you wouldn't have to worry about your head making contact with the bar behind you. :D

Sorry, that's the last thing I'll say about the roll bar. Sometimes I get hung up on these things. **)

That's OK Bill. I often obsess about things like this... Actually, the roll bar is slightly behind me as well as being about an inch higher than the top of my head, so I may not be as likely to bump into it as I would if it was directly overhead.;) The headrest idea has merit and I may consider it at some point. Interestingly, most of the real track roadsters of the post-war era had very low roll bars that usually only reached to about the top of the driver's shoulders!:eek:

Being an old stock car racer and having eaten concrete retaining walls on numerous occasions, I am a firm believer in seat belts and wear mine faithfully. My coupe has the seat belts/harnesses out of a '95 Hyundai Elantra. This car will be equipped with belts also to keep me down in the seat. I have included bracketry on the roll cage to accommodate full racing harnesses if I decide to use them. At the very least, it will have lap belts.:D

The inside of the body looks great!

Me too on the belts....I've crashed with them and without them....Conclusion is that I would much rather have them on!!!!!!

Mr. Robinson,

Just took the last couple of evenings reading through all 30 pages of your build thread....Dear God, but your work is impressive and inspirational. :toocool:

This thread was actually what inspired me to join this forum... I found it through a link from another site, but couldn't see the pictures just by lurking! :3dSMILE: There's a whole lotta good info (and helpful folks) on this site-love it!

Regards,
Shea:)

Welcome! Yes, this is a great site. There are lots of friendly and helpful people here.:cool:

Please, call me Jim. If you call me Mr.Robinson I think I'm at school dealing with my students!:p

Seriously, I'm glad you find my work inspirational. If you think I'm good, be sure to look at the build threads by Itoldyouso, Ken Thurm, Brianrupnow, and Hotrod46, among others. Tons of good stuff here...:D :D :D

Well, I'm getting down to the dregs of little things to do before disassembly.:rolleyes: I have completed the wooding of the body, ordered my windshield frame, sent the hood sides off for louvering, and finished the bolt holes in the top of the roll bar (I enlarged the holes, welded 3/8" i.d. tubing through them, and ground them flush). I'm at the point of making a "punch list" for completion.:3dSMILE:

Near the top of that list is a mount for the battery. I am using the same small size battery that Don (Itoldyouso) has in his roadster. This little thing solves a major problem for me because there is no good place to put a full-size automotive battery. The fuel cell takes up all the space inside the rear deck. In order to run a full-size battery, I was going to have to cut a hole in the floor under the passenger seat and suspended the battery on the frame rail.:( Now I have a choice; I can mount the battery under the floor (this battery can be mounted in any position) or I can put it inside the car on the firewall. Regardless, I needed to make a battery box or mount.

The pictures below are pretty self-explanatory. I made the main part of the box from 2" thinwall (1/8") angle. The retaining bracket is made from 1/8" x 2" flat stock and a small T-hinge. The latch is a little piece of 1" angle, a 5/16-18 x 1 bolt and a wing nut.

I got my windshield frame and stanchions yesterday afternoon. I ordered the "Performer" windshield from Total Performance and I am very pleased with it.:D To start with, the Performer w/s is only 14" tall and with the slanted stanchions it lays back about 15 degrees. The look fits well with the track-style theme of this car.

As with all the fiberglass T bodies I have worked on in the past, the corners of the cowl needed to be "massaged" a bit to make the stanchions fit correctly. I began by assembling the stanchions to the frame and then protecting everything with a layer of masking tape. The underside of the stanchions were carefully taped to avoid wrinkles in the tape.;)

I sanded the cowl corners with 40 grit on a D/A sander and then the windshield was put in place, centered, and anchored to the cowl with 2" masking tape. I also cut a piece of scrap wood and taped it between the top of the w/s frame and the roll bar as a brace.

With everything temporarily in place, I added a masking tape "dam" under each stanchion, mixed up some body filler, and packed it into the gaps under the stanchions. I actually did one side at a time because some care is needed with this step.

After the filler was in place on both sides and hardened, I removed the bolts holding the stanchions to the frame, pulled the stanchions off (the masking tape on the underside kept them from sticking), and removed the frame. The body filler was left with an imprint of the stanchion. It was now just a matter of working the filler to final shape with 80 grit sandpaper.:rolleyes:

More pics...

With the stanchions now fitting the body, they need to be attached. Every body is a bit different depending on how the reinforcement is configured. In this case, the rear bolt passes through the wood reinforcement and gets secured with a T-nut in the wood. The front bolt passes through the body just in front of the reinforcement tubing under the dash. There is no room for wood reinforcement in that space, so it will just have a large body washer and a flange nut.;)

This is simply a matter of drilling holes in the appropriate places and installing the necessary hardware.:rolleyes: Once the stanchions are bolted in place, the windshield frame can be installed and everything tightened up.:cool:

That windshield looks perfect with the rollbar and all. Good choice. Don has the Perfromer on his bucket too and it gives good protection from the wind. He also bought their mirrors that screw into the posts because he wasn't able to see anything behind him otherwise.

The other thing you are going to like Jim is that battery. My car sits for weeks at a time and one revolution and my engine fires right up. It has made a believer out of Dan, and he is going to use one to fire the 455 Olds in his car.

You are really coming along well. If not Turkey Run, Billetproof for sure. :D :D

Don

The slant of the windshield works particularly well witht the stretched cowl.

Looking good! I sure do like the angled windshield!

J.R. I like those metal brackets to the windshield. The slant looks very cool and retro!:D

Nicely done Jim, I like the way you improvised the mount and it looks like it works great. I too like the slant of the windshield, it just looks like it fits perfect. I really like the car and the way it sits, looks like a big guy like me could even sit down in the car and get into cruising.

Thanks for the compliments, guys.:D Before I decided on the windshield, I mocked it up in cardboard. I tried it straight up first and that was OK, but when I laid it back and stepped back to take a look there was no doubt which one I had to do. From your reactions I must have made the right choice...;) :cool:

are you going to make bracing for the top sides of the so it hold its shape?
I really like the front and back bumpers, what rate are the springs on the front ?

I think you left out a word... top sides of what?:confused: If you are asking about the body, I have already done that a couple of pages back.:)

I don't know what the rate is on those front springs, but they are pretty stiff. They are Honda Civic "drifting" springs that I got from a kit on Ebay. I may have to change them for something softer, but won't know for sure until I drive it.:D

the top panels of the hood, will there be braces on the back of it, so it holds its shape? just curious, oh yes by the way have you ever seen richard pettys headrests in the older cars? A round tube bent into a cricle with a peace sign in the middle, and a pad on the front, just a thought would like to make one for myself, keep up the good work

Ah! OK, the hood sides have a 1/8 x 1 flat stock strip spot-welded along the top edge that the hood top overlaps and latches onto. That keeps the bottom edges of the top panels straight.;) At the top center, where the piano hinge is attached, there is a 1/8 x 3/4 flat stock reinforcement strip on each hood half. Since I did that, though, I have been considering replacing those with some small angle iron for extra stiffness. One day when I was working on something else, I laid my angle grinder on the hood and it sagged in the center.:eek: I realized, all I need is for some ham-handed fool to lean on that hood a little too hard and it will be permanently deformed...:(

On another note, I had a bit of good fortune on Saturday. I picked up another S-10 engine and 5-speed trans for $100. This one supposedly has less than 500 miles on it since a complete rebuild! It's nice & clean and you can see some of the edges of the new gaskets & permatex oozed out in a few places, so it's definitely been apart. It's supposed to have new pistons in a fresh bore job, etc.:3dSMILE:

As the story goes, this guy bought an S-10 that had a mint body, but high mileage driveline with a smoking engine. He had the engine rebuilt, but was disappointed with the lack of horsepower, so after about 500 miles he pulled the engine back out and stuffed in a 350. This 4-banger sat in the corner of his shop for the last year or so until a mutual friend got us together...:HMMM:

Wow, that's a really good score on the engine and transmission. A little cleanup and paint and you should be able to drop it in. :)

Bet you are off today because of the hurricane.......that's one more day to work on our rods!! :LOL: :LOL:

Don

Yeah. Just waiting for the rain. We're supposed to get some wind and 6 to 8 inches of rain starting around lunchtime. Are you through the worst of it already?:HMMM:

I guess it is pretty much over for us, I slept through it. :p It seems to be over Immokolee right now, and heading on a NE track that seems like it will have it exiting Florida somewhere on the East Coast around Daytona or thereabouts.

I'm looking out the window and all I see is lots of rain and some wind, but not nearly what I would call high winds. In a little while we are going to head over to the shop so we can do some work on Dans car. Gotta try to find somewhere open with oxygen for my torches, ran out the other night, and we want to bend his steering arms down to clear his radius rods. So far no one has answered their phone, so I guess everyone took a hurricane day off.

Now I just have to find lots of recipes for all this Spam I bought. :LOL:

Don

Well, just called Northern Tool and they are open, so I guess I'll head up there and get my oxygen tank exchanged.

Don good to hear you guys are O.K. and spared the Hurricane outfall. I just heard about the weather you guys are having out there on my way home early this morning, from work! I thought hurricane weather usually started in Sept. and Oct. Seems a little early for them. Anyway, glad all is well with you guys!

Stovens - The "official" hurricane season runs from June 1st to Nov 30th. The most active part is usually August and September, so we are right in the middle of the busiest time. Four years ago we had "Charlie", "Frances", "Ivan" , and "Jeanne" all hit Florida within a 3-week period:eek: , beginning in mid-August...

Don - Spam makes a pretty decent sandwich if you slice it, fry it, and put it on a bun with a slice of Swiss cheese. You can also dice it up and use it as ham seasoning for soup beans...:3dSMILE:

The outer bands of rain and wind are starting to hit here now. Doesn't look like it will be too rough unless we get tornadoes...:HMMM:

J.
Good to know. It's been a long time since I worked in the Keys. It seemed the worst ones hit when I wasn't there, so I figured it was more of a Fall thing, though I do remember several tropical depressions with 60 mph winds! Good score on the engine and transmission. Hope you fare well through this one!

jim...its been a while since you and i yakked here...but thanks for the jokes emailed to my house..my god, that road-star looks reeeeealllly good. Hell, you build 2 cars in the time it takes me to finish one...my coupe will be on my #1 to-do list come september...pretty buzy spring and summer for me...but i am really itching to be driving it next june...and so's Mama...good score on that 2nd motor!!! Keep yerself dry, guy. My daughter and her family just moved to Gainesville (hubby a naval officer)...not sure they're ready for the abrupt change in the weather...expecting a call this weekend...what color ya gonna paint that hairblower?

That stupid storm has parked itself just south of Melbourne (50 miles south of here) and is gaining strength!:eek: The weather guys are astounded; it's extremely rare for a tropical storm intensify while it's over land... Hotroddaddy, they say it's coming your way when it leaves here.:HMMM:

Stovens - So far just a lot of rain. Not really storming yet, just constant steady downpour... I love the Keys, especially Key West. My wife and I go there for a few days every couple of years to unwind.:D

Hi Steve! - I'd like to see that coupe of yours on the road, too... You realize, after your daughter & family spend a couple of winters down here, they won't want to leave. Hey, maybe you & the wife should plan on coming to your daughter's place for Thanksgiving. Then you can come on down to Daytona for the Turkey Run and meet a bunch of us in person.:cool:

The frame, engine, and running gear will be dark red metallic. The body will be an off-white with a dark metallic red scallop on the nose/hood. The numbers and lettering will be gold leaf (I hope) with black outline. The car will be lightly patina'd so it doesn't look like a fresh build.:rolleyes:

The biggest thing on my punch list before disassembly was the K-member/driveshaft loop. I didn't build this piece when I had the body off because I was afraid that I might mis-measure something and it would end up interfering with the floor or driveshaft tunnel. The alternative, of course, was to get under the car and build the assembly in place. I put this off as long as I could (I hate working on my back and welding overhead), but the time has come...:rolleyes:

I began by setting the roadster up on jackstands. I put a stand at each corner and then used shims (pieces of old paint paddles) to level the frame front and rear. The K-member assembly is going to be welded in solidly, so I don't want any twist in the frame while fabricating/installing this assembly.

Fabrication began by forming and welding an oblong loop of 1/4" x 1 1/2" flat steel. The radius of the loop was determined by the contour of the driveshaft tunnel underneath. Next, I measured the distance between the frame rails (23 1/4" inside), subtracted the outside width of the loop (5 1/4"). I divided the remainder (18") in half (9") and cut two pieces of 1" tubing to that length. The purpose is so that the total length of these pieces, when assembled, will fit between the frame rails with the loop surrounding the drive shaft.

I built a temporary fixture from scrap lumber to help me get these pieces welded together straight and even. I had determined from my measurements that the loop needed to rise 3" above the top of the crossmember. I had actually added 1/4" to my inside frame width measurement so this piece would be 1/4" too long when assembled/welded. This allowed me to grind a slight "fishmouth" on each end to help with fitting and welding to the frame. I removed the driveshaft, fit the new crossmember in place, squared it with a tape measure and tack-welded it in place.;)

Next, I made the bottom crossmember piece from more 1" tubing. This piece was cut to length (+1/4"), bent slightly to fit directly under the driveshaft loop, fishmouthed to fit, and tack-welded in place.

Finally, I made two diagonal braces from 3/4" tubing to fit from the top crossmember tube, next to the loop, to the upper frame rail about 16" forward.

The final picture shows the whole assembly tacked in place under the car. When this is all welded solidly in place, the frame rails will be restrained from twisting and from "diamonding".:D

Narrowing down the punch list items, I decided to finish the battery mount. A couple of installments back I built the "box" to hold the Oddessey battery. I had, at one point, vacillated between mounting it under the car next to the right frame rail or mounting it inside the car on the firewall where it would be easier to service. I finally settled on the inside firewall location.;)

The first step was to weld a couple of "ears" on the battery box. I made these from some scrap 1 1/4" angle, drilled a 3/8" hole in each one, and welded them to the sides of the box.

Next, I cut a piece of birch faced 3/4" plywood to fit the inside of the firewall. This piece is odd shaped because of the steel reinforcement on the driver's side. I then cut a second piece of the plywood to fit the back of the battery box and tapered it on the belt-sander at school. I glued this second piece to the first so that it is positioned right over the transmission tunnel. The reason I used such thick material is because I needed to space the top of the battery (and the terminal posts) back away from the steel hoop that is immediately behind the firewall.

Once the wood was shaped and glued together, I drilled the 3/8" bolt holes, countersunk the backside, and installed a couple of 3/8" T-nuts. Now the battery box can bolt in place without bolts passing through the firewall. The wood reinforcement assembly will be bonded permanently to the inside of the firewall with polyester body filler.:D

I see you are getting one of those little Odyssey batteries too. I'm seeing more and more of them, and love mine. Car sits for long periods and cranks like gangbusters every time.

Man Jim, your list of stuff to do is getting shorter every day! :) You're making really good progress. I like the scallop/ color combination thing you have picked. Scallops and track cars seem to go hand in hand.

Who knows, we might see you driving this thing in November..........or for sure next March at Billetproof.:)

Don

Don - I had never heard of the Oddessey battery until I saw yours. It sure is a problem solver in this case. If I had to use a full-size car battery, I would have to cut a hole in the floor under the passenger seat and drop the battery down beside the frame... It would actually hang down below the bottom of the frame and would be visible from outside the car!:(

November is looming closer and I keep encountering interruptions (work related) that make that goal look more and more hopeless... Even if I get the thing together and running, I've still got to deal with the registration process... UGH!:rolleyes: :whacked:

The good news is that Ron Ennis (up in Indiana) has finished punching the louvers in my hood sides and they are on their way back to me. Our mutual friend and "go between", Jerry Bristow, tells me they look really good. Each panel has two rows of 26 louvers, for a total of 52 in each panel. I can hardly wait to see them...:cool:

Yep, Turkey Run is only a little over 70 days away. We are having the same problem as you...........work is getting in the way of working on our cars. Dan is taking on another property to manage, and I went back to work, so the only time we have now is weekends. It's the age old problem.......you either have the money to work on your projects, but no time.......or, you have all the time in the world and no money. :( This earning a living thing sure cuts into the fun stuff, doesn't it. :D

BTW, that driveline hoop setup looks very good too.

Don

I had planned to start taking the roadster apart Saturday, but got sidetracked and didn't get any work done all weekend.:( Well, divine providence must have been taking care of me... I received my hood sides today and they are beautifully done. I guess I just needed to see them on the car before I take it apart.:rolleyes: All I can say is WOW! What a nice touch they add to the frontend of this car.:D :D Here are a couple of pics...

After installing the hood sides I took a few minutes to bond the reinforcement/ battery box mount to the friewall inside.:HMMM:

I started by putting a piece of masking tape over each of the countersunk holes so they wouldn't get body filler in the threaded T-nuts. Next, I mixed up enough body filler to coat the back of the reinforcement piece about 1/8" thick (no pic of this - ya have to work fast with body filler). Then I put the reinforcement in place, pressed it firmly against the inside of the firewall, and braced it there with a piece of 1 x 4 lumber wedged between it and the seat back. After about 20 munutes the body filler was solid enough to remove the brace. Later, when I have the aluminum firewall off, I will put some countersunk screws through the fiberglass into the wood.:D