One way to build a '32 sedan

I thought I would give a up date on the steering. My goal is to have leg room in the interior and have as close to correct geometry for minimum bump steer. That's why I'm going threw all this trouble, and also to change the steering ratio so it is more wife friendly.
I didn't do this by myself, I wish I was this talented. I have an employee that does all our drawings here and he is the best machinist I have ever had. So this is what we came up with. It's a long way from being finished but this is what we have so far. Next step is put the body back on the frame and get the best location for the pitman arm to exit the cowl.
Ken

This is how it will work. The two small gears are for tensioning they are adjustable in and out so there is no additional play in the steering.
Ken

This is what it looks like bolted together and about where it will go in the cowl.
Ken

OK OK It's offical I'm moving a cot into Ken's garage to learn from the master (and to play with all those cool toys)..........LOL:toocool:;)
BradC

Nice fabrication. Chain drive steering! Looks to solve the steering relocation very effectively.

Ken,

Love that chain drive box, you do beautiful work (if ever there was an understatement that was it). I've got some questions. The sprocket in the chain at the top of the photo above looks to be quite a bit smaller than the sprocket housed in the box. Is it there for photo purposes only or are you trying to change the gear ratio? Also, what will you use to house the chain from the Schroeder to the offset box? This will be the last question I swear;), how will you lube the chain?

Jack.

BradC- Come on down, I can use the help :3dSMILE:

stovens- Thanks, Steve, I hope it works !!


Jack F- Thanks, yes I'm changing the ratio from 8 to 1 to 16 to 1. My wife will be driving this, at 8 to 1 it is hard to steer going slow, parking and just turning in general is a real pain. So this makes it a lot easier, then i will adjust the quickness of it with the length of the pitman arm. The kick panel will cove this all up and the chain will just have a lite coat of oil on it like a chain on a bicycle. No problem with questions, ask away !!:3dSMILE:
Ken

Ken, I just got done reading all the progress you've made while I was away. I LOVE THIS CAR!:) Every one you build is top drawer, but your pickup and this one are my favs...........I lean toward the look from back in the day, and you have really nailed it, yet with modern touches that make them special.

You are going to have to put a dart board in the garage to help you decide which one to drive on any particular day. :LOL: I also like the fact that you KEEP all of your cars..........it would be like selling one of your kids to part with any of them.

Don

I noticed an ad in one of the magazines for a chain drive steering setup and was concerned with chain stretch. How often do you anticipate having to adjust the tension gears to keep the slop out of the steering? Would a double row chain be better?

Tom

Ken,
This build is out of the world. A true inspiration to see coming together.

Rick

Don- Thanks, I really enjoy your builds also. There doesn't seem to be as many builds going on like their was before? The site seems to be going threw a change, maybe it's just me.
I think you will like the new truck, I'm still collecting parts but getting close.
Your right I don't sell any of them, I have all of them since 1976. It just bothers me to sell them for what I have in parts, that's what people who aren't capable of building cars want to pay for them, even then I'm not sure they would sell.

39Deluxe-I have seen them also, I wanted to see how they did the internal pieces but I don't know any one who has one. so I just faked it.
the chain I chose is very high strength and 1/2" wide and the gears are hardened. I think after the initial break in it won't be a problem unless I smack a curb or a large pot hole. Something that would create abnormal stress. Unless the car isn't moving there really aren't much loads put on the steering, it's the turning of the wheel when the car is stopped and the width of the front tires that create loads.

Ken

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 39Deluxe

I noticed an ad in one of the magazines for a chain drive steering setup and was concerned with chain stretch. How often do you anticipate having to adjust the tension gears to keep the slop out of the steering? Would a double row chain be better?

Tom

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We work on a lot of high performance sport bikes at the motorcycle dealership where I work. It's amazing to me how they control valve chain tension on these motors that live in excess of 14,000 RPM. To make it more amazing these "very small" chains are in "constant run, constant tension". You could play a tune on them when they are tensioned. They have pretty much one thing in common from brand to brand, model to model, they just use a plastic/nylon (?) slipper type chain guide on the back of the chain with a spring loaded ratchet tensioner.

John,
I was considering using one of those, I actually took the dimensions off of one of your bikes when it was over here, But decided against it for there size and needing two of them for my project.
Ken

How are you going to hold tension on the small gears? It would seem that at stopped or in an abrupt situation like a quick hard jerk of the wheel to avoid something that a spring tensioner would compress first before transmitting the movement to the wheels.

I would think a threaded adjuster that can be positively locked would be better. Something like is used on a motorcycle drive chain. Maybe I'm trying to over engineer this but to me it's a fascinating piece of ingenuity and I like tight and precise steering feel on my cars.

Tom

Tom,
You are right we have adjusters just like a motorcycle. I love comments and question if I'm going in the right direction.
Thanks for taking the time.
Here is the model.

Ken

Here it is assembled with the pitman arm shaft that will stick outside the cowl and the pitman arm will slip over the splines.
Ken

Love the cad drawings. Picture is worth a 1000 words, so I guess a cad drawing is worth 10k and a computer laser cutter is priceless!:D

I can't speak for Ken, but I think we are all overthinking this thing. It isn't like it is a motorcycle chain that spins at a zillion rpms (which Ken also has a lot of experience with through his other company) but it is on a fixture that moves very slowly and not far at any one time. The dual idlers look much better to me than one because they would keep equal tension on the chain when you turn the wheel BOTH ways, and if you look at the picture below, you can see how they act as guides to keep the chain in a straight line until they reach the idlers.

To me it sure looks a lot more stout and better thought out than the one that is on the market, and for which users have had nothing but praise. I like it. :)

Don

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Originally Posted by Evolvo

Ken,
I'm curious to know why you chose to use two idlers? Seems to me one would work just fine and there would be that much less friction and wear.
Besides that your doing fine:LOL:
Alan

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cause if ones good twos better right? jk :LOL::LOL::LOL:

Ken

you are my hero!!
One of my goals for life is to one day be able to design, make, fab any and every part I want for my toys.... you sir are living my dream :)

keep it up, awesome as always!!

Thank you all for the nice comments. I'm out of town, but thought I would check in and wow, you guys are actually looking at this thing!:eek:
Well, as usuall Don has it right, I think he's my brother from another mother :LOL:
Here is how I came up with this design. I was adjusting the valves on my red roadster. I use a 1/2" drive long ratchet and stick it in the blower pulley to use to turn the motor over. It has so much leverage I don't even pull the plugs out. I just run it threw the firing order and adjust the valves. But if I got to for when I'm rotating it, I have to back it up, even though the belt is as tight as can be on the pull side when you back it up it has a bunch of play in it. So when I was thinking of doing this I knew it needed two idler's one for each direction, right turns and left turns. There is clearance between the chain and the sprocket, but as long as yopu are pulling in that one direction it's tight. So when this is installed I will find the neutral spot where it has the same clearance on both sides of the chain then push the idlers in to take out the clearance. That way I shouldn't have any play in my steering. Make sense?:whacked:

Ken

Yup. Like my motorcycle drive chain my old Honda. Forward it's tight, Spin the wheel backwards and it loses tension. The main reason why ten speeds derail!

Ken, now that you mention it, I was found as a baby on the steps of a church in LA with a note pinned to my little sleeper. It read "Someone please take this boy in and some day help him find his long lost Brother who will share all his '32 Fords with him." :eek: I'll take the pickup and sedan BROTHER KEN! :D:D

You are also right about the lack of builds on here as of late. Maybe they all got running or maybe the guys building them don't feel thread-worthy. It could also be that some have posted and felt they didn't get the feedback they wanted. What they have to realize is, 1) we love builds, regardless of how trivial the progress may seem, and 2) sometimes we just sit back and read the thread and don't have anything to say to add to it so we are quiet. Doesn't mean we are interested or that we didn't love reading it.

Don

Hard to say from pic but that looks like some heavy 40 chain also . No bicycle stuff there .

Ken,

Thanks for posting the model. It looks like a well thought out system to me. What kind of bearings are to be used on the pitman shaft?

Tom

Don,

Just for that I will post a couple more pics of my 34 re-build.:D Haven't posted more since there isn't much more to show.:CRY:

Jack.

I just saw it..............fantastic car and thread. Thanks for posting that.

Don

Bobby- Your right schedule 40 chain, and hardened gears.

39Deluxe- I'm using 2" o.d. sealed bearing on the steering shaft and oil impregnated bronze bushings on the idlers.



I wanted to get started on filling the roof, but couldn't make up my mind on how to go about it. I started to make templates for the different radius's and that didn't look like it was the way I wanted it, so then I was on the Hamb and there is a guy filling the roof on his '32 sedan. The first thing he did was put in a wood roof kit, the light went on, of course all the radius's are built into it that way, so that's what I did. I installed it today so I can start on the metal panels Saturday. I did have to shorten the side wood 1 1/2" because I shortened the body the same amount. Then there was the little problem of chopping the A pillars an inch more than the B pillar. Some times ya can't see the forest..........you know!!!!
Ken

Ken. Where did you get the wood roof kit?

lookin good Ken. Now wood, that's something I can work with!:3dSMILE:

deuce4papa- I bought it from Dick Spadaro, Early Ford Reproductions. I don't know who he gets them from but I was very disappointed with the quality, no instructions and no hardware. When I called them on it he made it sound like I was stupid because I haven't installed one before, his quote was,"everyone knows they don't come with instructions and hardware". So buyer beware.


Steve- I need a wood worker to get this thing right, what are you doing next week? :3dSMILE:
Ken

Wow, That's the first negative thing i've ever heard about Spadaro! Whenever I've dealt with them - it's always been a good experience. Sorry to hear that you weren't treated well! We'll have to get IC2 to go over there and give'em the business! He's close by them and on a first name basis!

But seriously, sorry to hear that they treated you badly! I wonder what goes on behind the scenes that makes these companies make a comment like that? Like we're all just born with this god given knowledge of every car and part ever created!

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Originally Posted by 34_40

Wow, That's the first negative thing i've ever heard about Spadaro! Whenever I've dealt with them - it's always been a good experience. Sorry to hear that you weren't treated well! We'll have to get IC2 to go over there and give'em the business! He's close by them and on a first name basis!

But seriously, sorry to hear that they treated you badly! I wonder what goes on behind the scenes that makes these companies make a comment like that? Like we're all just born with this god given knowledge of every car and part ever created!

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That's how I felt, I haven't installed one of these before. I got pretty aggravated with this guy, finally he hand sketched a blueprint of where everything goes. but really what I was asking for was detailed instructions, should I glue the joints before I screw it together, what size wood screws should I use. This wood is so hard I was afraid of using something that would split it. I know to use pilot holes in hard wood but just tell me what size you recommend. You would think, listening to him I was asking him to fly out and do it for me. the guy was a jerk!
Ken

Pretty sad considering it probably was an expensive kit to begin with. It never ceases to amaze me what jerks there are in customer service! I would ask how he felt if he dumped a lot of cash into a project and got parts without directions, and friendly customer service such as he was providing.

Ken when your done we want to see a similar photo only with your 32 sedan!
http://www.northwestindiana.com/phot...od-Posters.jpg

And the thing is Ken, you are about the most polite,easy going guy around. Don't you just love it when people take that approach to dealing with you?:mad: I've had to remind more than one "customer service person" that I am the customer here and because people like me spend money with your company you have a job.....so do your job!:eek:

By contrast, Dan was telling me the other night that Summit Racing gave him a credit for the shipping charges on his recent order because they forgot to put the apartment number on it. He didn't even ask or want it, but just called them to make sure they had it on file for the next order. Most companies could take a lesson in customer service from companies like Summit.

But your wood kit looks good, and knowing you, you will figure it out or re-engineer it to work even better than designed.:D

Don

I've had Spadaro calling me to apologize and notify me that some of the things I bought had gone up in price unknowingly and they wanted to double check that I might still want / need them. And they've given me so much help getting my windows together, I'm really, really surprised by their reaction this time. Maybe a bad hair day?

steve - That's true, I don't know how some company's stay in business. Then I try to be understanding and think maybe he just got off the phone with a bad customer. He made me a bad costumer :LOL:
I will do my best to get that photo :D

Don - You are absolutely right, it's called customer service. I'm am death at our company, if I hear anyone loosing it with a customer. We give away more stuff to people for warranty that isn't our fault, they just don't take responsibility. But if they call and ask for help I give them anything they won't and make sure we help them with anything that they are having trouble with. On the other hand if they call up and threaten us or want to blame us for there inability to read our owners manual then that's a different story. Knowing this I'm always calm and asking for help when I have a problem.
Just like your comment from Summit, that goes a long way.
Ken

I've said this before Ken, the old adage in business is "If you please a customer he will tell another person.........if you p*** him off he will tell 5 other people." I think you just told a few more than five here. :LOL:

But like I said, not only will you figure out how to do this framework properly, you will probably improve it, knowing your skill level. :D

Don

Ken I'm still slow on the uptake. It's taken me until now to realize your hot rod collection is all 1932's! Good year I guess!:LOL: